Option for solo team

z63XnLCMwX·Jun 15, 2016·1 votes·292 views

I don't mean a pure solo queue. I mean an option where the player is allowed to choose their team to be made up of all random instead of being mixed with premade while enemy team is allowed to be either random or pre-made. I don't care if the enemy has a 2 man, 3 man, 4 man or 5 man pre-made, I want to play with a team of all randoms. This way the player base for ranked won't be split in true solo que and team queue while each side gets what they want. The only advantage that should be given in solo team against pre-made is solo team should get blue side while pre-made teams gets red side.

17 Comments

QuephaJun 15, 20163 votes

This ruins matchmaking times for dynamic queues It makes it more difficult to create evenly matched games

This solution is the worst of both worlds.

z63XnLCMwXJun 16, 20161 votes

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This ruins matchmaking times for dynamic queues It makes it more difficult to create evenly matched games

This solution is the worst of both worlds.

How, solo people who wants don't mind being pair up with premades would still have the option. This is just for people who wants to play with a team full of random but still be in the same ranked queue as everyone else. I personally despise duos in my team and dodge whenever I identify them, but I don't mind playing against duos. Ranked time are complete bull now anyways, I'm averaging 15 minutes just to get in champ select and 45 minutes to join a game since I dodge about 50% of them.

disregardableJun 16, 20162 votes

Nobody would ever choose to be matched with premades.

z63XnLCMwXJun 16, 20161 votes

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Nobody would ever choose to be matched with premades.

You wouldn't know that. Maybe there's some chap out there that wants to be with premades.

QuephaJun 16, 20161 votes

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How, solo people who wants don't mind being pair up with premades would still have the option.

Pure solo teams are strictly better than dynamic teams, if only by a tiny percent, so almost all solo players would opt in to solo-only teams. The vast majority of players will always behave selfishly when given the option. The remaining number of solo players in dynamic queue would be microscopic, meaning that dynamic queues for 4 and 2-stacks would both be totally ruined.

z63XnLCMwXJun 16, 20161 votes

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Pure solo teams are strictly better than dynamic teams, if only by a tiny percent, so almost all solo players would opt in to solo-only teams. The vast majority of players will always behave selfishly when given the option. The remaining number of solo players in dynamic queue would be microscopic, meaning that dynamic queues for 4 and 2-stacks would both be totally ruined.

I'd disagree. You can make a team with a premade of 2 + 3 and already one with 5. The only one that might have a problem is a 4 man pre-made which is easily filled by the random soloq player that don't mind premades.

QuephaJun 16, 20161 votes

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I'd disagree. You can make a team with a premade of 2 + 3 and already one with 5. The only one that might have a problem is a 4 man pre-made which is easily filled by the random soloq player that don't mind premades.

2's are more common than 3's, MUCH more common, and solos would be needed to fill in the gaps. The queue times for duos could easily get up to half an hour or more.

Dota 2 tried having a solo only queue, it didn't work for this exact reason and they had to kill it.

Either everyone deals with premades or playing with your friends becomes impossible.

z63XnLCMwXJun 16, 20161 votes

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2's are more common than 3's, MUCH more common, and solos would be needed to fill in the gaps. The queue times for duos could easily get up to half an hour or more.

Dota 2 tried having a solo only queue, it didn't work for this exact reason and they had to kill it.

Either everyone deals with premades or playing with your friends becomes impossible.

But we're not having a solo only que, the solo team would still be paired against the premades so the player base isn't split. Duos can easily be made with 2 + 2 + 1 or 2 + 3. I don't think it hurts the game if riot takes a week to test this to get data.

QuephaJun 16, 20161 votes

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But we're not having a solo only que, the solo team would still be paired against the premades so the player base isn't split. Duos can easily be made with 2 + 2 + 1 or 2 + 3. I don't think it hurts the game if riot takes a week to test this to get data.

It's a complete waste of everyone's time. The existence of a solo-only queue is functionally the same as moving all solos to their own queue because players will behave selfishly in cases like this.

z63XnLCMwXJun 16, 20161 votes

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It's a complete waste of everyone's time. The existence of a solo-only queue is functionally the same as moving all solos to their own queue because players will behave selfishly in cases like this.

You don't speak for all of the solo players though.

QuephaJun 16, 20161 votes

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You don't speak for all of the solo players though.

That is how it works in every online game, this basic economic principle holds true for humans in general for most things.

The League of Legends playerbase, specifically, has recently reminded us of their true colors with role selection. Players that didn't mind playing support once in a while completely abandoned the role for ALL games because it reduced the odds of getting their main role. Even swapping from Mid/Top to Mid/Support in 1 out of 5 games would have had massive benefits for the queue times of all non-support roles for the entire playerbase but they were unwilling to do it at all because the vast majority of players will choose the option that benefits them the most the vast majority of the time. They merely sat and complained about queue times until RIot had to step in and create a more complex role placement algorithm that favors your primary role more strongly.

z63XnLCMwXJun 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That is how it works in every online game, this basic economic principle holds true for humans in general for most things.

The League of Legends playerbase, specifically, has recently reminded us of their true colors with role selection. Players that didn't mind playing support once in a while completely abandoned the role for ALL games because it reduced the odds of getting their main role. Even swapping from Mid/Top to Mid/Support in 1 out of 5 games would have had massive benefits for the queue times of all non-support roles for the entire playerbase but they were unwilling to do it at all because the vast majority of players will choose the option that benefits them the most the vast majority of the time. They merely sat and complained about queue times until RIot had to step in and create a more complex role placement algorithm that favors your primary role more strongly.

But that doesn't prove that solo players will always pick solo team. What you saying is only an opinion. According to your logic, it's impossible to find a support in ranked now because no one choose that role but I still see people picking it, Like I said, Riot can easily have it tested out for one week and revert the change if the data prove it's bad.

QuephaJun 16, 20161 votes

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But that doesn't prove that solo players will always pick solo team. What you saying is only an opinion.

Only under standards for the word "prove" that make proof itself into an illusion. Standards that make it impossible for anyone to prove that gravity will hold us to the earth when we wake up tomorrow morning.

This principle is backed up by logic and experience from several fields related to human behavior, online games in general, very similar online games within this same genre, and even this very game. Evidence for something doesn't get much better than that.

According to your logic, it's impossible to find a support in ranked now because no one choose that role but I still see people picking it,

No. According to the facts of what actually happened, queue times became incredibly long because the only players willing to play supports were players that preferred support over all other roles because the default role selection options gave players that liked support without preferring it the most support more than they cared for, so they refused to take matters into their own hands to achieve their desired ratio which would aid the entire community and instead took the selfish option of abandoning the role completely.

Like I said, Riot can easily have it tested out for one week and revert the change if the data prove it's bad.

No, they actually can't. It is not easy to quickly implement an entirely separate queue, a week is not enough time to collect a proper data sample, and it's pretty obvious that players would throw an epic shit-fit if Riot added solo queue to live servers and then took it away no matter how many times Riot would try to tell them that was probably going to happen. And it would have to be added to live servers to gather any data of value, the PBE is exceptionally bad for learning anything at all about how players behave.

z63XnLCMwXJun 16, 20161 votes

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Only under standards for the word "prove" that make proof itself into an illusion. Standards that make it impossible for anyone to prove that gravity will hold us to the earth when we wake up tomorrow morning.

This principle is backed up by logic and experience from several fields related to human behavior, online games in general, very similar online games within this same genre, and even this very game. Evidence for something doesn't get much better than that.

No. According to the facts of what actually happened, queue times became incredibly long because the only players willing to play supports were players that preferred support over all other roles because the default role selection options gave players that liked support without preferring it the most support more than they cared for, so they refused to take matters into their own hands to achieve their desired ratio which would aid the entire community and instead took the selfish option of abandoning the role completely.

No, they actually can't. It is not easy to quickly implement an entirely separate queue, a week is not enough time to collect a proper data sample, and it's pretty obvious that players would throw an epic shit-fit if Riot added solo queue to live servers and then took it away no matter how many times Riot would try to tell them that was probably going to happen. And it would have to be added to live servers any data of value, the PBE is exceptionally bad for learning anything at all about how players behave.

Player threw a shit fit for the implementation of team queue. Basically you're being extremely biased against even testing out dual solo + team queue at the fear of you having to wait longer queue time. You admit it yourself, a significant portion of us want to play solo queue without premades in our team but we have to cater to YOUR wish so you can play with your friends. It reminds me of West coast players trying to defend why Riot should keep server on West coast instead of moving it to central.

QuephaJun 16, 20161 votes

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Basically you're being extremely biased against even testing out dual solo + team queue

Facts and logic are not biased.

You admit it yourself, a significant portion of us want to play solo queue without premades in our team

right, that's the reason that pure solo queue and dynamic queue would not work in tandem, only one can exist at a time.

but we have to cater to YOUR wish so you can play with your friends.

"cater" is a strong word for having to deal with large premades pretty rarely in games that still statistically give you even odds of winning and, in the long run, will still determine your rank by your own skill. Although I very rarely play ranked with large premades and have never actually done it with friends I personally know. I don't even think I've used voice chat when playing ranked with any group larger than 2.

z63XnLCMwXJun 16, 20161 votes

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Facts and logic are not biased.

But what you're saying aren't facts. It's your opinion.

QuephaJun 16, 20161 votes

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But what you're saying aren't facts. It's your opinion.

This is incorrect.

Queue times did become long because players dropped support from their secondary and refused to ever play it. Dota 2 did drop solo-only queue because dynamic queue could not survive without solo players 4-mans do need solos to make 5 man teams Duos do need trios to make 5 man teams in the absence of solos and trios are much more rare than duos Large numbers of people do tend to behave selfishly in all systems where they are given options, especially when they are given time to figure out what options benefit them the most The PBE is a poor place to collect data Implementing a separate queue is not a really simple thing to do A week is not enough time collect data on the entire playerbase

Zero opinions in any of this.