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BotRK counter?

Digital Sauce·2/15/2015, 1:19:50 AM·6 votes·2,644 views

TL;DR: It's still being called the ADC for a reason.

I've been playing LoL for a very long time now and this item popped up one day and stuck around, despite having next to no counterplay from my perspective.

To clarify my opinion; the only strategy to countering this item is from the very start - before the game, through strategic champion selection. Which isn't a viable solution at a casual level of play and inhibits diversity. The only reasonable counter items to this once the game has started, are: Randuin's Omen, Frozen Heart, Thornmail. The problem is that BotRK is designed to counter them all!

(Worst Counter, Best Item) Randuin's Omen: bonus health vs. health shred, tanking-only AS reduction vs. AS boost, slow vs. slow+boost

(Best Counter, Niche Item) Frozen Heart: AoE AS reduction vs. AS boost

(Bad Counter, Bad Item) Thornmail: damage return vs. damage sustain

In individual match-ups, all of these counters to BotRK are countered by BotRK. Which is why building more of these 'counters' has a massively diminishing return in-game. The following biggest argument to counter BotRK, is armor. However, armor counters physical damage in general. Of course anyone building a health shredding BotRK is going to be shredding your armor as well! LW alone is enough to chunk armor stacking, without even factoring in runes/masteries/champion kit.

So, what strategies do you use to counter BotRK? Do you think BotRK needs a stronger counter? (a new item, rebalancing etc.)

I think BotRK needs a better counter because I think the only viable counter is a better pick during champion select. I think Riot should review and improve the interaction between BotRK and Thornmail. Thornmail doesn't return the damage of on-hit effects (AKA BotRK health shred). The return is also magic damage even though MR is WAY more accessible to a Marksman. Lastly, lifesteal (also built into BotRK) wrecks any damage output you might get out of Thornmail.

You know what should counter a healthier Thornmail-tank design in the future? Magic! (Not BotRK)

4 Comments

Linna Excel2/15/2015, 2:54:02 AM3 votes

I find the best way to counter an ADC with bork is flinging an angry Vi at his face.

TehNACHO2/15/2015, 1:27:52 AM1 votes

Well for a start, upfront burst.

I'm sorry but I skimmed the post and mostly saw keywords of tank items. Tanks are not supposed to counter ADCs, it is literally the opposite way around.

In an ideally balanced game, the balance triangle generally looks like this: Tanks/Bruisers beat Assassins, since they have more effective health than an Assassin can burst. Assassins beat DPS carries, since Assassins burst the DPS champ too fast for the DPS to ramp up. DPS carries beat Tanks, since DPS champions are literally optimized for damage over time, and aren't soft capped in damage potential like an Assassin's burst is.

I mean, I've written on this subject before and got the attention of a Red when I did so, but even I know that the counter to Blade of the Ruined King should not be more tankiness. If DPS champs are killing Tanks, that is the correct and logical thing to happen. What you need is a dedicated Assassin, Burst Mage, or Anti Carry on your team to shut down the DPS champion if you really want to counter BotRK.

ElysMustache2/15/2015, 1:40:09 AM1 votes

BotRK scales with current HP so in theory having little health mahes it better. So a champ that had a low cool down shield seems like a counter to me. Coupled with of course an AS debuff or some ridiculous HP regen when low or their own life steal/spell vamp.

Digital Sauce2/17/2015, 9:46:09 PM1 votes

EDIT: To be literal about it, upfront burst damage isn't a counter - by definition it's a weakness. ADC weaknesses are irrelevant to the discussion!

@ElysMustache Sound advice, a shield with armor is possibly the most effective counter against BotRK. Although, if you read my post, you'll notice that I'm already aware that a champions kit determines success vs. BotRK - so unfortunately it's not a viable solution in a lot of different ways.

@TehNACHO I already read through that entire thread prior to posting my own (FYI it's redundant) and quite a few others on this subject. I'm not sure what relevance you think linking your thread has here. What is this "ideal balance triangle" supposed to be? You must be able to understand that there's a deeper level of diversity within the game that your simplified interpretation of balance fails to consider or even fully acknowledge.

For example, if my team doesn't have the assassin role I guess it's game over then - given the ideal balancing situation you're describing (it's not though).

Also TehNACHO, you claim it's a "correct and logical thing" for a tank to be destroyed by a weapon that it's built to withstand - well, think about where the word 'tank' originates from... What you described as "supposed to" is how the game works, yes, hence the reason I'm making this post though. You haven't exactly answered either of my questions when I think about it. Yet you're here, plugging your own similar content.

As a final thought, you should also consider that; what you're referring to as "ideal" is actually just Riot's way of doing something.