I feel like Riots Champion power budget needs to be reevaluated.

HandheldBrandon··6 votes·1,016 views

I mean just looking at some of the recent champion releases....

RekSai who has her ability to teleport to any one of her tunnels with her ult and her ability to make tunnels every 4 seconds which also Knocks up enemies when she unburrows from under them.

Kalista with her godly passive and her insane ability to kite along with her Massive Psuedo Smite/Execute on her E which is also a slow and the ability to proc her passive on her Q.

Gnar with his hop which is also a slow and his godly highly spammable boomerang slow which has effectively a 4 second cooldown if you catch the boomerang throw along with his spammable slow in Mega Gnar which also has a stun and a AOE Knockback/AOE Stun. Not too mention he also has a percent health damage burst every 3 attacks as a passive on gnar form.

Braum With his Highly powerful Shield Wall and his ability to give his teammates a resistance buff which is attached to a dash. Also comes with a built in stun on his passive which all he needs is to hit with his Q which is a super powerful slow in its own right. His teammates can proc this stun too as it is a lingering duration until it is fully procced which then it gives Braum a damage boost on his Auto's and his Q. Lets not forget about his Ultimate which is an AOE line knockup/slow.

Yasuo ......Need i say more? HIghly spammable abilities, Multiple dashes as long as he has more than one enemy around (up to 16 is the max i have seen) Incredibly high power spike with a very cheap item and has a knockup which can be used multiple times as fast as he can spam his Q and hit something twice. His Ult which gives free armor pen and can hold multiple targets Airborne for 1 second can be procced off others knockups thereby extending the actual duration of the knockup itself. I myself have a personal disdain for this champion. Not too mention he gets 1000s of gold of a highly valuable offensive stat for simply building an item with that stat on it (Crit chance) With item 3031 anditem 3087 he will sit at 90 percent crit chance which is far more than anyone actually needs and guarantees nearly every hit will be a critical hit.

Lucian Hyper Mobile, Excellent Poke, Deceptive range. Lucian has quite a bit in his kit. First off Deceptive range. Lucian's Actual range is alot longer than what his auto attack belies. His Q is an AOE line poke with 1100 total range (the ability itself reaches up to 1100 range but the actual ability use range is 500 which gives it an extra 510 effective range). This ability also doesn't lose any damage despite hitting multiple targets and despite multiple champions having this put on their kit (IE Sivir, Graves). His ult has 1400 range and scales off of attack damage and attack speed and is a channel that move. His Passive allows him to get off up to 6 shots in very quick succession after the use of an ability and also lowers the cooldown of his E relentless pursuit which is a line dash. Against Champions it lowers the cooldown by 2 seconds so on a perfect Rotation Lucian have use his abilities in sequence and his relentless pursuit will be off cooldown by the time the last ability shot goes off. Also his W gives him a movespeed buff and a hefty one at 60 movespeed at max rank and the mark does not get used up with each shot.

Thresh 3 displacements (2 for enemies 1 for allies) 1 Knockup (Flay) 1 Dash (Death Sentence) 2 slows (Flay, The Box) 1 stun (Death Sentence) Not even Nautilus who i consider to have one of the meanest CC combos in the game can compare to what Thresh brings which needless to say is a whole lot.

Vi A long ranged Channeled dash which Knocks the enemy slightly (yes slightly) towards VI when she hits an enemy. With 40 percent CDR (which is not very difficult to achieve) the Coldown is only around 5 seconds (4.8 to be exact) the max range of the dash is 900. If VI is stunned out of her Q then it goes on a 3 second cooldown instead of the normal 8. A long Range knockup/stun in her ultimate. Health and armor shred every 3 attacks as a passive.

Zed The king of everyones Ire. Where to begin. Multiple blinks utilizing his shadows including the ability to dash back and switch places with his shadows which he used to dash in the first place. Highly spammable abilities, Near Limitless farming potential with almost zero resource management. Massive level 6 powerspike enough that it forces enemy carries to delay all items to counter this powerspike with a specific item. Incredibly difficult to gank. AOE slow on his shadow utilizing his E (which btw stacks on itself up to 60 percent). Incredible poke using utilizing his shadows and his Q to throw out 2-3 shurikens. A passive which does percent max health damage upon the enemy being at 50 percent health. An ultimate that creates a shadow, blinks to the target, Allows him to do a quick burst of damage (which includes any damage from items I.E item 3153 then adds 50 percent of that total damage to a secondary burst of damage on top of the abilities flat damage which then allows Zed to blink back to the shadow used to create the ultimate from any range.

I can't even go on these 9 champions just have incredibly powerful kits which far FAR overshadow all their peers.

Every single one of these champions Except (Braum and Thresh have incredibly high damage potential while also having incredibly high mobility and some utility. While Thresh and Braum lack in damage they make up for with some incredibly powerful CC and team utility Thresh in particular is everything you could ever want in a support and is amazing both offensively and defensively. I feel like champions are just getting too much and champions like Ashe and Galio andSwain (not just these champs they are just 3 examples) are just getting further and further behind in the power grave that Riot seems to have dug themselves into.

I for one think that the power budget needs to be reevaluated with CC, and Mobility being placed in the higher end of the spectrum. We CANNOT have any more champions like Thresh or Zed because what that does is create a ladder to be measured up to and if a champion doesn't compare then that champion will no longer be as sufficient as it once was. Then we get into the problem of having to constantly nerf and renerf champions to bring them in line which i have to Admit Riot has somewhat of a questionable history on. For example back when Akali (Irony right) item 3146 were a big problem Riot could have solved the Issue by directly nerfing Akali's damage but instead they opted to nerf item 3146 instead which then made Jax and Kayle (who relied on the item) very weak. Then Riot went and nerfed Akali anyways but left Jax Kayle in a terrible state then they went and buffed Jax but went too far and made him a little too good but left Kayle in a terrible state and then went and nerfed Jax. Instead of digging themselves a hole Riot had to dig themselves out of if they had just addressed the problem of Akali then they could have avoided the whole Jax Kayle Fiasco and everyone would have been happy.

Now Riot have created situations where they give champions such powerful kits that unless they nerf said champs scalings/ base damages into nothing (even then int he case of Thresh that wouldn't help) that these champions are still going to be worlds ahead of their peers.

Mobility in particular needs to be addressed ASAP it needs to be placed higher on the scale of power budgets.

If a champs total power budget is 10 then Mobility needs to be a 4 or 5 with damage taking either the highest or the second highest.

For example. (also please forgive the oversimplification)

Champion A (we will call him grobnark) will be our tank

Damage 1. (IE burst, Sustained, Sustain) Utility 4 (IE,CC, Vision etc) Mobility 2 stats 3

Since Grobnark has such powerful Utility he suffers in damage but he has decent stat growth and his mobility is mild at best. He fulfills his role as a tank and can be a peeler for his team as well hell he may even be a good support or jungle. Since he has great utility he would make an excellent ganker but since his damage is low his clear may be too slow but he has decent stat growth so it may even out later with items and his stat growth.

This is a good balance of stats.

Champion B. (we will call gorpledorf) He will be our Assassin.

Damage 4 Utility 1 Mobility 4 Stats 1

GorpleDorf is an Assassin so he shouldnt have a ton of utility and since he has a ton of damage his base stats can't be too great either that way he gets his power from items and from his ability to do his job efficiently. However should GorpleDorf be caught it would spell instant doom as he isn't durable in the slightest.

However now we have a problem see. GorpleDorf has so much damage and mobility that the low stats and utility dont matter since he is blowing up all of his targets before they can react or do anything. This is how i view Zed currently. Except Zed would be at a 2 with utility instead of 1 thereby giving him a total of 11 in the power budget. GorpleDorf here blows up any and all targets doesn't matter whether its Grobnark or Amumu Gorpledorf blows them up before they can do anything and he can be right back out before any one can say "F you Certainlyt". Therefore something is wrong here something better to do would be to give damage and mobility what im calling a linked cap.

For example if you have a power budget of 4 Mobility then your damage cannot exceed 2 or if you have 5 damage Mobility cannot exceed 1. A hard cap on damage and mobility that totals 6. That way we do not get another Zed. But before they can do that they need to determine the type of champion whether assassin or tank and they need to set artificial limits for these classifications.

For example tanks like Amumu would Favor Utility and Stats over mobility and damage (hence why Properly tank build Amumu relies on his teammates for damage and teamfights to last a long time to get the benefits of his damage). Where has Assassins would favor mobility and damage. Since each one has a favor stat for the power budget then they need to set a cap on those favored stats. League CANNOT CAN NOT afford another Zed and thresh in this game as they literally overshadow their peers by miles and miles and no amount of number fixes will solve that unless in Zeds case they completely gut him. Even if they gutted Thresh his kit is too godly to balance.

TLDR Read the shit if you dont have time to read it then i dont have time for your opinion.

Please leave constructive feed back along with your opinion (unless your opinion is about the length of the OP) and i will answer to the best of my human abilities.

14 Comments

SmokingPuffin4 votes

I feel like you're overusing the champion icons. It really makes the section about Akali, Kayle, and Jax hard to read.

As far as your overall point, Riot knows that many of their kits undervalue mobility. I think you're taking it too far by just blanket covering all the new champions with the OP tag. Actually, some of that list needs buffs.

Riot could have solved the Issue by directly nerfing Akali's damage but instead they opted ...

Riot indeed makes this mistake fairly often.

Damage 4 Utility 1 Mobility 4 Stats 1

I don't think this kind of abstract model has any real value. To do the job, you need to compare real kits to real kits.

For example, Corki's good and Varus isn't. When you look at these guys, they're both pretty good at long ranged poke and they both get a lot of damage out of their abilities. The main difference is that Varus has a CC ult and Corki has a dash. It turns out that Corki's dash is undervalued here, which is why Corki is the one who sees play while Varus is chilling on the bench like "I can root a guy every couple minutes".

The point here isn't really specific to those champions. It's that you can't really use some abstract model to say whether one is better than the other. That takes real, detailed understanding of the kits.

HandheldBrandon2 votes

Thats why i said forgive the oversimplification. Also yes i used the icons a little too much i agree.

If we are to compare Corki and Varus then we need to look at the whole kit then we will look at it from the over simplified power budget i made.

Corki Passive- Hextech Shrapnel Shells. Q- Phosphorous bomb. W- Valkyrie. E- Gatling Gun. R- Missile Barrage.

Varus Passive- Living Vengeance. Q- Piercing Arrow. W- Blighted Quiver E- Hail of Arrows R- Chain Of Corruption

If we take a look at the two champs one sees two very different purposes rather than just simple poke Champions.

Corki for Example is all about his Poke from Range With Phosphorous bomb and Missile barrage and uses gatling gan to help shred heavily armor targets and his passive is designed to help against heavily armored targets as well. He also has a safety net in his W Valkyrie to allow him to choose when he wants to escape from a losing fight or chase an opponent whose losing. Hes all about whittiling down an opponent before he dives in full to take them out. (This is without adding items into the mix which changes things up a bit depending on builds.)

Varus on the Other hand is about Sieging and doing mix damage and shredding high health targets. Where as Corki is about high armor targets and his poke Varus is about High health targets and mixed damage along with excellent ranged harass.

Where as Corki has his Valkyrie Varus has his utility. Varus has Zero mobility in exchange for a Possible AOE snare and a slow with grievous wounds on it.

If i had to add up their power budget using my simplified system i would.

Corki

Damage 4 Utility 2 Mobility 2 Stats 2

Where as Varus i would place him.

Varus

Damage 5 Utility 3 mobility 1 Stats 1

Remember this last part is all my opinion on their conceived power budget in my eyes.

Sivir my favorite champion would look something like.

Damage 2 Utility 2 Mobility 3 stats 1

Sivir is a little more rounded out because she is more of a team oriented Carry where she doesn't put out the greatest damage but her mobility from her ult and her passive make her incredibly mobile for an AD carry. Her team Utility is in the form of an AOE huge speed boost and her spell shield can block a spell that would other wise set one up for a fatal encounter. But her stats arent the best.

Lucian would look something like.

Damage 3 Utility 1 Mobility 3 Stats 2

He has excellent damage and excellent mobility but almost no utility outside of his W which only benefits him and his stats are decent from an ADC stand point.

The only new champions i truly despise are Yasuo and Zed.

Yasuo because he is a hyper mobile Hyper Carry that gets a power spike from an item regardless of how poor he was doing in lane and gets 1000s of gold of free crit chance just for building said item. Zed because he is basically the perfect Assassin with little flaws outside of not understanding how his kit works. Once you understand it though he becomes good in the hands of any player and has extreme safety too boot.

EDIT: The only true thing about Varus that feels truly off is the passive. I believe the Original goal was to have it make Varus more dangerous the longer a fight goes on but the passive doesn't last long (6 seconds for a champion kill or assist and 3 seconds for a minion kill). The passive feels like an honest after thought. However someone on another thread had an excellent Idea where if Varus detonated his stacks then he would get an attack speed boost depending on the amount of stacks he detonated (max being 3 stacks).

EDIT: 2 to give a fairly blunt answer as to why Corki is good and Varus Isn't. Corki has a safety dash and Varus is immobile. This is a situation in where Mobility creep has made a champion undervalued because a certain stat has become over valued.

SmokingPuffin4 votes

If i had to add up their power budget using my simplified system i would...

The question I have is why this exercise is useful. How does it help me determine what to buff and what to nerf?

Also, this seems super subjective. How did you decide that Corki is a 2 and not a 3 on mobility? Will another person using the same system be able to produce the same result?

2 to give a fairly blunt answer as to why Corki is good and Varus Isn't. Corki has a safety dash and Varus is immobile. This is a situation in where Mobility creep has made a champion undervalued because a certain stat has become over valued.

Right. It's a simple case of mobility being undervalued. Either Corki is paying too little for mobility, or Varus is gaining too little for not having mobility.

HandheldBrandon2 votes

See here is where the eyes of players and Riot seem to be differing.

Riot is undervaluing Mobility while Players are Overvaluing it.

The reason Corki receives a 2 in mobility is because Valkyrie is a medium range dash (which is able to be interrupted) and it has a 14 second cooldown with no way to reduce its cooldown outside of buying CDR. Where as Lucian for example has a short range Dash on a 14 second cooldown but the cooldown can be reduced by utilizing his passive and abilities. He is able to turn a 14 second cooldown into 2-4 second cooldown by properly using his passive.

Lucian has a mobility rating of 3 and corki a mobility rating of 2. The Damage on corkis Valkyrie is superficial. If negligble at best.

The better question would be is where do we draw the line?

An ADC like Corki is a good mix he has an escape but its on a decent cooldown and when its down the aggression level changes on Corki into a safer more cautious playstyle possibly relying more on his support. Lucian however is rewarded with more mobility for going ham and has the abilities to outtrade anyone but graves which is where a problem lies. How do you give a highly mobile champion whose main purpose is supposed to be heavy sustained damage large amounts of burst damage couple with high amounts of mobility?

Graves works because thats his character and he sacrifices alot to have that burst such as range and higher cooldowns. Lucian however has lower cooldowns, comparative burst, more range, a bit more mobility and thus more overall safety.

SmokingPuffin2 votes

Riot is undervaluing Mobility while Players are Overvaluing it.

I don't really think this is true. I think players are properly valuing mobility -- there are no immobile champions that aren't in the meta but I feel ought to be. On Riot's side, I think they are properly valuing mobility in their statements now, but they have a big history of design decisions that now need to be edited and that's gonna take time to get through.

Graves works because thats his character and he sacrifices alot to have that burst such as range and higher cooldowns. Lucian however has lower cooldowns, comparative burst, more range, a bit more mobility and thus more overall safety.

This sounds kind of weird. Graves is much better than Lucian today, but your text sounds like Lucian is the kit with more power budget.

HandheldBrandon2 votes

This is where we have to disagree.

Mobility creep is the very reason we have Champions like Zed now who are insanely mobile and champions like thresh who are designed to lock down said highly mobile champs. Thresh's Kit is literally built to lock down who ever he gets his hands on. Should he grab a Zed he can temporarily prevent Zed from multi dashing out long enough for his team to collapse on him. Jarvan is kind of a big offender here to as he was designed to lock down immobile champs and then he became incredibly popular for this reason (and still is) therefore Riot creates more and more mobile champions which eventually leads to someone like thresh coming out to stop these hyper mobile champions and Suddenly you dug yourself a grave that you cant get out of without massive sweeping changes.

Graves is IMO good right now because Supports like thresh are about latching on and all inning an opponent with their carry. Graves is the opposite champion. he is the one ADC that you DO NOT want to all in on as a squishy carry. When Thresh all ins and the carry is too scared to jump in the only one that suffers is thresh otherwise if the carry all ins too Graves will turn on the carry and blow everything he has with his support and 9-10 times the burst will exceed the other team.

Lucian however i feel different about. Lucian is a carry's dream because he brings alot to the table with very little weaknesses. He has great poke, great damage, excellent mobility, and with his Passive can out trade everyone BUT graves. A typical combo i see from Lucian players is to dash in utilize passive Q Utilize passive W and Either Utilize passive or W and back out. In the span of only 2-3 seconds Lucian landed around 4-6 attacks to most carries either 1-2 or none as they ran because the initial burst was too much or fled at the first sign of aggression. Graves However wants exactly that for Lucian to rush in. However should graves be on the losing end he has no way to Escape from Lucian who will simply catch up with another dash a few seconds later after the initial burst round.

Graves has the better burst. Lucian has the better follow up and opportunities to follow up.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

therefore Riot creates more and more mobile champions which eventually leads to someone like thresh coming out to stop these hyper mobile champions and Suddenly you dug yourself a grave that you cant get out of without massive sweeping changes.

I think mobility creep is quite good for the game. Mobility increases skill cap and playmaking potential. The main downside is that we have older kits that don't fit in the game anymore, but honestly those kits were never all that good to begin with.

Graves is IMO good right now because Supports like thresh are about latching on and all inning an opponent with their carry. Graves is the opposite champion.

Not wild about this take. Janna is the best support right now, Morgana isn't far behind, and all-in supports haven't been this weak in some time.

Lucian however i feel different about. Lucian is a carry's dream because he brings alot to the table with very little weaknesses. He has great poke, great damage, excellent mobility, and with his Passive can out trade everyone BUT graves.

This description of Lucian's kit has absolutely no relation to my experience in game today. He's getting wrecked by everyone and bleeding popularity in diamond.

HandheldBrandon2 votes

Those kits used to be really good BECAUSE mobility was a rare and powerful thing. Ezreal and Corki and tristana were godly back in the day because of their mobility yet they were all second to Ashe.

Ashe was the queen of kite (a title she no longer holds) because her Utility and her ability to keep herself safe through meaningful and skillful use of her slows made her dangerous. Ezreal Corki and Tristana however could bypass that which made them Dangerous to Ashe. Champs like Xin Zhao were also needed because he could also bypass that and suddenly it became a team wide job to help protect Ashe which promoted health and competitive teamwork and team plays. Fast forward to now and Ashe is but an afterthough buried in the dozens upon Dozens of champs that completely circumvent the entire gameplay shes built around.

Her lack of power is due to the rise of Mobility which not only she suffered. Nasus for example has his Wither which for all intents and purposes is one of the most broken slows in the game. Its highly spammable, unescapable, and incredibly powerful yet were it not for the strength of how silly Wither is Nasus would not even be considered to play. Why? Mobility took over and he needs incredibly powerful spells to combat this.

Janna is an in incredible support ill agree However Thresh is by far better. He brings almost as much Peel and twice the initiation along with 10x the tankiness.

Only true downside to Lucian is his basic attack which which is negated by the incredible range of his abilities.

Meep Man4 votes

For my birthday I wish Nautilus will become the king of Crowd Control again.

To be serious, all these champions are fun and I wish older champions will be buffed instead of these champions being nerfed.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

I just have to say Nautilus is one of my favorite champions hes the reason i got out of gold when i lost hope and got stuck. To me he is still the king hes just taking a much deserved break.

Narasimha2 votes

RekSai - Another champion overtuned at launch, nothing new here. On a general note, she's nothing special. Her early game is strong, but its balanced by her lack of decent scalings coupled with the fact that she HAS to build tanky to survive.

Kalista - All of her budget is taken by her mobility. She's also the only other ADC other than Ashe without any form of steroid which cripples her damage output.

Gnar - Mini gnar has high mobility, but is incredibly squishy in return. Mega Gnar can take a few hits, but is slightly more mobile than a minion.

Braum - Incredible defensive abilities, very limited offensive options compared to other supports.

Yasuo - Incredibly reliant on windwall and Flow to even survive lane. High offense, but collapses like wet paper.

Lucian - High mobility and burst, but is much much weaker than other adcs when his spells are on cd.

Thresh - He's a bit of a problem child.

Vi - Strong mid and late game, but very weak early game. Incidentally, thats why she stopped being taken top lane.

Zed - High mobility and decent burst, but has incredibly telegraphed moves. Has problems early game when trying to farm with just abilities.

Demonsolder212 votes

TLDR Read the shit if you dont have time to read it then i dont have time for your opinion.

Well played OP well played.

HandheldBrandon2 votes

{quoted}

TLDR Read the shit if you dont have time to read it then i dont have time for your opinion.

Well played OP well played.

Thank you good sir.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

Going to give this a bump.

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