League's towers

jocomotion··23 votes·2,751 views

So, I've been thinking about this issue for a while. I don't know if it's just me, or if I've been the only one to really talk about this but.... Are League of Legends towers weak to anyone else? In my opinion they're too easy to take down in the mid and late game, and they do so little damage to anyone who's got even one armor item in the game. Don't get me wrong, towerdiving should still be a thing since it can be risky if not done well, and towers shouldn't be TOO hard to take down, but I just feel like the threshold is WAY too low right now. So, i decided to write this. I've ordered the problems from what I believe are most serious to least serious.

Tower Damage > I'll just say it, during the mid game towers do way too little damage to tanks/fighters who build tanky second items. And in the late game they deal too little damage to just about everyone. A tank should not be able to take tower shot after tower shot with little to no risk to themselves. Some tanks like Sion Chogath Malphite and TahmKench can straight up ignore towers thanks to their shields/health/armor, ect.... and others like Maokai Vladimir and even Karma can SUSTAIN FASTER THAN TOWER ALONE CAN KILL THEM. Now again, don't get me wrong, if the average champion is sticking to tower while below half health in mid game, a fed Sion, or a tank and a damage dealer SHOULD be able to kill them and get out alive. But right now it's too safe most of the time. To fix this towers need to augment their damage. I see four ways to do this.

  • A: Towers do half AD and half Magic damage Honestly my favorite idea I've seen so far. By doing this tanks who just get one MR item then build mostly HP and Armor would not be able to tank NEARLY as easily before. It would force tanks who want to dive to diversify their build in order to effectively dive, and those who don't will either be thrashed by either lacking Armor or lacking MR. The major problem I see about this is making tanks have to build stats that they may not need. For example if a tank is against an all AD team with just one AP support so they build mostly armor and health, they wouldn't be able to efficiently punish the enemy for building mostly AD, other than that I don't see much issue with this idea.

  • B: Towers deal true damage Not too fond of this one honestly, It WOULD deter tanks from straight up charging for squishes under tower, hell it would do a better job than the (A) idea, but I have two major issues with this one. 1: It's TOO punishing, sure riot could tweak the damage numbers ad infinum, but even then all you'd need to do is build health, building armor and MR would literally give nothing to champions to help them against towers which makes it way too hard for dives to actually happen. 2: Squishy characters would virtually never be able to dive under tower when going for a low health squishy, which as long as they're skilled enough, they should be able to do. Also fighters who just stack health will take too little damage from the towers while doing a LOT of damage under tower.

  • C: Towers continue to increase in damage as one person tanks it My second favorite idea. Right now towers deal increasing damage for every subsequent shot, but it stops increasing after the third shot. This way, champions who dive in and kill the champion before taking multiple shots can skillfully punish people without tanking a ridiculous amount of shots. But tanks can. By doing this it allows more counterplay for the champion who's hiding under the tower, but only against tanks/fighters who are willing to take multiple shots. to an assassin like Talon for example this buff wouldn't change much. He'd still take the same amount of damage as he would before a buff. But a tank like Sion who's slow and relies on skillshots would need to take multiple shots of increasing intensity, at the fourth shot the damage would already be much higher than normal, and if Sion continues to take tower shots after that point it's his own fault.

  • D: Straight up buffing their damage mid/late game Overall not a bad idea, but one that's too simple in my opinion. Tower's are not champions, they are automatic, controlled by AI. buffing their damage won't add more counterplay, it'll just make them scarier.

Tower Tankiness > Let's do something. Who remembers when Poppy could 1v1 towers w/o minions? I know a lot of people are going to tell me "but she was OP then" and yes, she was, but I want you to try something. Go into practice tool. Choose.... hm let's say DrMundo and build item 3065 item 3512 item 3047 and item 3083 . Disable minions, level up to 12, and attack any tower you want, try to keep yourself alive without using auto-cooldown or auto health and 1v1 a tower. You'll be surprised how far you'll get. A while ago riot did buff tower's tank stats by making them harder to kill without minions around but I feel that WITH minions around they're too easy to kill. This time I have a couple of ways to fix this issue. A: make towers harder to kill the closer they are to the enemy base. I feel this is a good Idea because early game (which again I don't think the towers need a buff or nerf) you wouldn't feel a difference in how easy/hard it is to kill a tower. But As you get closer and closer to the enemy base the towers would get increasingly harder to kill (while doing the same damage). Perhaps the later towers will even give more gold since they're harder to kill as well. Overall, I just feel this is a smart idea. B: Make towers grow tankier for every nearby enemy This idea isn't bad either, but it comes with a lot of nuances. First of splitpushers would be CRAZY. Since they'd be able to take down towers at the same rate as they do now, but TEAMS of people would push slightly slower.... yeah. Secondly, this would mean tank champions and supports would literally be hindering tower pushing since they don't build items to push towers better.

Splitpushers/Splitpushing items > Now honestly here is where we cross the line of the MAJOR issues I have with towers and we're now getting into minor details I'd like to see. I don't think splitpushers are too powerful, nor do I think they're too weak right now. They do their job of being champions who push off on a lane alone when they get an opportunity while also being either super tough to 1v1 like JaxMasterYiNasus super mobile like Shaco Tryndamere or just killing towers super fast like Ziggs Tristana Yorick . But each comes with it's own strengths and weaknesses. However, even though I don't have a problem with splitpushers I do have a major problem with certain items, mostly the Lethality items and triforce, having too much pushing power. Mages and Assassins should on average not have much splitpushing potential and even though this is true for mages it's not always true for assassins. Of course there are exceptions like TalonEkko and Yasuo who can splitpush at their own risk and have built-in mobility to escape if need be. But when someone with high kill potential AND superior mobility like Zed or someone who shouldn't push towers by themselves like Jhin just build lethality and splitpush so fast and hard, it hurts the games health. I'm not really sure how riot would fix this if it's even on their radar, and honestly it's not a MAJOR issue, but it is one I see pop up every so often.

Tower AI > Honestly I don't have many problems with the towers AI. For those who don't know towers always target like this. 1: attack enemy champion who damages ally champion under tower until enemy champion dies or leaves tower range. 2: attack the first enemy unit in range, and continue attacking until unit dies OR 3: if an enemy champion pet unit is within tower range, attack that pet unit after either of the previous two points die/leave range There's more there, but honestly it's super difficult to explain but overall I like these rules, but I'd like to add ONE thing.

  • Once an ally champion under a tower dies, the **_killer _**becomes targeted by the tower this way, a tank can still take a majority of the shots, but when say for example Annie deals the killing blow, she has to remember that the tower will start hitting her instead. It adds a bit more thought behind every dive, thinking "I can definitely dive and kill this person, but will I be fast enough to escape tower with the HP I've got once I DO kill this champ?".

Minions pushing > Finally we get to the last, (and honestly least important) point. Before I preface this opinion I wanna make something clear, I think super minions, ZZ'rot and banner, and auto-push pets are completely fine in the game, this is just something with the regular minions that I find annoying. Minions should not be able to push down a tower by themselves. If you go into a custom game you'll find that minions tend to push back and fourth all on their own with no real management, I feel like regular minions should not be able to kill towers, and instead champions will have to deal the final blow in order to actually have the tower be taken down. Again, this rule is void for supers/zzrot/banner of command/pets (item 3513 or Yorick ghouls, or Malzahar creeps, etc...). It's not a big thing, but I just feel like it'd be a good idea, again.

And there you have it, my little ideas on how to make tower's a bit more powerful, while not feeling overpowered. I'd love it if my fellow summoners shared below their thoughts/opinions. As well as any other ideas they may have.

12 Comments

Melledoneus4 votes

A big reason why turrets fall so fast early is because minions hit them very hard.

They need more armor early on.

Injured by Words3 votes

They are extremely weak. Riot wants them weak because they favor fast, FPS-like games. Riot should make a FPS game and bring the RTS flavor back to league. Make towers stronger and make K/D score less important than objective kills and even trading down for objectives should be rewarded. 2 ppl dive to trade for 1 kill and a tower should be worth more than the team getting 2 kills but losing a tower. Totally backwards.

jocomotion1 votes

I completely agree. If towers become more potent threats and harder to kill then people will put more actual effort into eliminating them. And if it takes more effort to kill them then riot could make killing them more rewarding with more gold, maybe exp, etc. That way objectives play and plays a more important role in league rather than just going for champions 90% of the time.

LexLutheran873 votes

I thought this was going to be another cry thread, but damn, that was well written well thought out. I hope a red sees this and gives it thought for way forward to make towers feel impactful again.

jocomotion1 votes

{quoted}

I thought this was going to be another cry thread, but damn, that was well written well thought out. I hope a red sees this and gives it thought for way forward to make towers feel impactful again.

Thanks! I’ve put a lot of thought towards this, I’m glad to see people don’t think I’m just complaining about towers, well... ONLY complaining about towers.

Noblewind3 votes

IMO we could just increase the range of turrets. This would help the game in several ways:

  1. Give some melee champs that are historically weak laners increased safety.

  2. Slightly reduces snowballing, in a good way, i.e. you are still losing lane and can't do much in the open, but don't completely lose all agency to come back. Also, if you are dove by a wreckless opponent, they will die more often in those cases to the additional tower shot they would receive.

  3. Actually gives the turret more health, indirectly. Since the turret starts hitting waves earlier and you need more time to run out of the zone, there is less overall time for a champion to damage the turret, especially early game.

jocomotion1 votes

That is a pretty smart Idea and I played with that for the nexus/inhibitor towers to make them harder to siege and easier to defend, but decided to go against mentioning it for a few reasons. But then I thought if I buffed the range on one tower I should buff it on them all and that brought up a few problems....

1: it could be nearly impossible to dive in the early game even on a very low health target, ESPECIALLY in the mid lane where there is already very little lane that isn't accompanied by turret aggro. I honestly think that in the early game the power of the towers is fine overall, and buffing their early game power should be done so EXTREMELY carefully. It's also why I don't like the idea of "just buffing their damage".

2: very specific junglers wouldn't be able to gank nearly as effectively. It would be a huge indirect early game nerf to junglers who need to dive in. This isn't as strong as a point as the first one, but it is still something to keep in mind.

However I do agree with the melee champ laners getting some help it would be excellent for them since they have a MUCH harder time defending against a heavily pushing enemy. I'm not sure if it'd help with snowballing and tower defense though. I see you're third point holding some weight but I don't think it would stop a snowballing champion like Riven from tower diving and still making it out easily.

LBmyBB2 votes

towers are made of sand now

jocomotion1 votes

Yeah, they really are sometimes.

zero3561 votes

Nah A pile of sand that big + whatever is strong enough to hold in that shape would be stronger than current turrets

Automated Riven1 votes

Minions have to be able to kill turrets. This creates pressure if you don't have a split pusher. Through proper management you should be able to threaten towers without being there.

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