Riot, I really hope you'll give melee carries a chance at fulfilling an important and unique role.

Mãge··3 votes·376 views

Compared to tankier, more cc-oriented top lane fighters and tanks, melee carries really don't shine in any area. This is apparent in champions like Gangplank, Fiora, Tryndamere, and the rest of the melee carry champion subset. They're even split across categorizations when Master Yi, a melee carry, is placed into the assassin category while Fiora is placed into the fighter category, though they perform almost identical roles. If you could perhaps allow these melee carries to function effectively in place of marksmen or have their own unique role and visibly different and powerful strengths, then give them a new classification, you'd be able to balance them and their kits according to that classification.

Master Yi is a great example of a well-designed, unique, powerful and viable melee carry that can even sometimes effectively replace a marksman in a standard team composition. Most of the time however, he's played in the Jungle. The main differences between Master Yi and standard marksmen are that a standard marksman is stronger in lane and in team-oriented siege pushes/fights, whereas Master Yi is stronger during his mid-game power/reset potential spike and in and split-team split-pushes.

Yasuo is also a very powerful melee carry who can replace a marksman in split strategies, but is instead played mid because he has quite a strong laning phase that could be played in the side lanes, but is even stronger versus mages who can't dish out constant poke DPS (hence the mid play).

I would love to see melee carries have their own categorization and kits balanced specifically around what they're designed to do.

TL;DR I want to see more role diversity within the definition of carry instead of having it be limited to ranged marksmen, such as melee carries with sufficient counterplay and carry potential.

5 Comments

doublelift fg1 votes

in dota 2, you can pick a mele carry against a ranged one, for example sniper is the most played ranged carry but he has 36 base AD and with poor man shield you can reduce hardly his poke. In league jinx can poke you with 100 AD (before reduction) 600 range for 20 mana this is the problem in laning phase, ranged carry has the same base AD (nearly) with 500 bonus ranged making laning impossible even with doran shield.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

You are looking at it wrong. They are anti-carries. Lets take Olaf, Tryndamere, Jax, and Master Yi as examples. Master Yi negate most peels with the exception of hard CC to alpha strike to and kill an ADC. Tryndamere can slow down and lower the AD of all enemies around him, gapclose and escape with his spin, and become unkillable for 5 seconds to kill a carrym Olaf can remove all CC from him and perma-slow carries with his axe to kill them. Jax can jump to an ADC and evade all autoattacks/stun people and kill them quickly. Melee carries can do loads of damage with 1-2 damage items and still be tanky, and the carries they aim to kill don't build defense at all until very damn late in the game and are thus very squishy.

Melee carries as you call them are infact anti-carries. Another example, GP has an innate move speed boost, a global slow, and can remove all CC from him buy eating oranges. All these melee carries can negate peel and blow up an ADC and get away safely. Assassins cannot do this. They cannot charge through an enemy team and negate attacks/remove CC. Thats is why they fall off late game. "Melee Carries" on the other scale very damn well into late game and have the means to dive into the backline of a team and wreak havoc.

Read my thread about "Unsung Heroes: The Anti-Carry"

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/6ZIjBKHs-unsung-heroes-the-anti-carry

doublelift fg1 votes

why anti-carry can't lane against carry?

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Because melees (and/or ability-focused champions) benefit so much from XP for their tankiness and damage that they cannot afford to share it.

If a ranged carry was to solo against a melee carry, the ranged carry would be quite likely to lose (imagine a Fiora vs Jinx, for example). However, in a 2vs2 lane, this advantage is largely lost if the melee cannot snowball (and you cannot count on snowballing each game).

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Melee carries do not work in League as squishy sustained damage dealers. The whole mechanics of the game are working against it.

  • Unlike in DotA, League's burst damage dealers have a way to scale their damage into the later stages of the game. In DotA, due to the lack of scaling on abilities damages, there eventually comes a point when baseline tankiness allows heroes to live through the burst of nukers. This allows melees to move in to deal damage without getting blown up immediately. Additionally, the item BKB exists to allow heroes who purchase it to reach this point of being able to live through burst earlier. In League, base stat tankiness or even one item tankiness is usually NOT enough to live if you take an equally itemized burster's full combo. That means you either need more tankiness (= less damage) or room to outmaneuver the enemy to evade some of the burst - at least a part of most bursters' damage is allocated to skillshots. However, it is way more difficult to evade something if you don't have the time to react.

  • In League, offense and defense itemization is largely seperated, ESPECIALLY for sustained damage dealers. In DotA, the primary attribute system allows AGI (and, to a lesser degree, STR) melee carries to purchase tankiness at the same time as damage - and, for AGI carries, even multiplicative damage, as they get both attack speed and attack damage from their primary stat. In League, you cannot buy the items for multiplicative scaling without largely foregoing defensive itemization. Thus, a high sustained damage build THAT IS BASED ON AUTO-ATTACKS is, by necessity, rather squishy. And even if you manage to get the four core offensive items on a melee ADC through snowballing, you still run the risk of being blown sky high if you move within the enemy team's full reach (and by full reach, I mean trying to go in without back-up while they have all their cooldowns available).

-League has next to no artificial mechanics to favor melee In DotA, melee heroes benefit more from stats and certain items than ranged ones. For example, Stout Shield and Quelling Blade. In League, this is only true for two masteries. Additionally, DotA contains things like disjointing projectiles, high ground (miss chance for ranged when attacking from a lower position) and turn rate. The latter of which makes kiting much more difficult, as melee heroes generally turn faster than ranged ones. Something that is rather counter-intuitive to common perception - why should the one in heavy plate be quicker to turn than the guy who wears no restriction armor at all?

Essentially, these thing leave us with bruisers, assassins and not-just-auto-attack-based melee sustained damage dealers. In the latter category, there are things like Riven, Yasuo or Jax . Champions who use their abilities for a big part of their sustained damage, and not just their auto-attacks, and are usually quite mobile to be able outmaneuver enemies despite being in close range.

More from Gameplay

More by Mãge