MR, almost totally useless

Zyorhist··1 votes·721 views

Without sitting down and doing numbers, I currently feel as though MR is only partially useful. Thinking about it RIOT is giving mages 700-800 AP in a AP build, whereas an AD character can only get to 500-600 AD on a great build. Compare this to the 200-300 armor and 100-200 MR that people can build. Without taking EVERY MR item in the game no character can slow down any fed mage let alone make it seem as though they are even trying. Keep in mind that if a character did take ALL of the MR items in the game they would be losing out on half or better of the passives that they come with, and half of the stats that they come with. There is no champ out there that needs MP5, additional healing, MR Shred, AND attack speed all at once. The only way to even slow down a built mage is to try to get a 5 man jump on him and hope someone walks out of it alive.

This is also to consider that almost all of the MPen items come with AP so not only can they stop your MR build they can get stronger while doing so. The number of Armor pen items are extremely limited and very few of them also come with bonus AD. Please leave your thoughts, and lets hope Riot does work on it at some point.

12 Comments

Angry Monster4 votes

Your numbers are bad. ADC use crit multiplier with AS to calculate DPS .Just saying 600 AD means so little. The same is to be said with AP champs. You are saying 700/800 damage but each champ has ratio ect.

You are generalizing and doing it badly.

Zyorhist1 votes

as I said in the first sentence, I wasn't sitting down and doing numbers...but either way if they are off they are off. This doesn't change the statement that MR feels completely useless...

Angry Monster1 votes

you shouldnt make threads like this if you are going to skip numbers.

TehNACHO3 votes

...

You know, I'm a mathematician who happens to be able to calculate (Effective Health/Gold Cost), would you like me to calculate you the difference between Effective Health Vs. Physical Damage and Effective Health Vs. Magic Damage?

Just name a champion, preferably a tank that's not biased towards Magic Damage or Armor, and I can begin working.

cshakes2 votes

I'm not the OP, but I'm interested in your calculations. How about Shyvana as the example?

Zyorhist1 votes

Lets do a comparison, or 3...

Lets assume lvl 15, and stacking items are fully stacked.

MF with BT, Statik, and Maw VS Brand with Liandri's, RoA, and Rabadon's...

Leona with Sunfire, Face of the Mountain, and BV VS Brand with Liandri's, RoA, and Rabadon's...

MF with BT, Statik, and Maw VS Leona with Sunfire, FotM, and BV...

Lets see who survives the rotations...

Shrikesnest3 votes

So many misunderstandings in just one post...

  1. None of the numbers you're spitting out are comparable. We'll start with AD and AP. Maximum attainable AD is lower than maximum attainable AP because AD happens on every autoattack as long as the champion can keep you in autoattack range. AP happens on spells, which have ratios (almost no spells add your full AP) and cooldowns. What this means is that you're going to take a big burst of AP damage and then no more AP damage from the same champion over the course of the next five-ten seconds. Health is significantly more effective against AP than it is against AD because if you can survive a mage's initial burst wave you're in a much stronger position against them.

  2. Similar to the first point, armor and MR are not comparable, and for similar reasons. They feel very different and play very differently because of the difference between autoattacks and spells. Also, the passives on MR items are much stronger in general than the passives on armor items; a item 3102 straight up ruins most assassins in a way that no armor item can do to a marksman.

  3. You claim that there's no way to slow down a fed mage, but you could not be more wrong. Most tanks are custom-built to ruin a mage's day, because it's impossible to burst down 5k health or, in most cases, even put a meaningful dent in it, even at full build, and a lot of tanks have silences or hard CC that allow a mage to be caught out and destroyed. Mages erase squishies. It's what they do. If your whole team is pure offense, you're leaving yourself extremely vulnerable to mages.

  4. You're also quite wrong in your statements about mpen items versus armor pen items. Most pen items of both types have relatively low AD or AP on them, but almost all of them have some. Last Whisper, Youmuu's Ghostblade and the Black Cleaver all have AD on them. In fact, those items are very comparable to Void Staff, Abyssal Scepter and Liandry's Torment, so I really don't know what you're talking about at the end there.

Zyorhist1 votes

in response to your point 2,... I posted this immediately after watching a veigar (fed) melt Leona and voli who were both building MR and had the engage over him, and yet he was able to just wipe the floor without hesitation.

Trinityunicorn2 votes

Thank you for sharing the information, learned some stuff I didn't know and probably no one would ever come out and say w/o someone bringing up the topic. Its amazing to me just how deep the strategies and knowledge go in this game. Maybe I've seen this before but just wasn't ready to take in the information, but I appreciate hearing it today. Thank you

67chrome1 votes

Without sitting down and doing numbers, I currently feel as though MR is only partially useful. Thinking about it RIOT is giving mages 700-800 AP in a AP build, whereas an AD character can only get to 500-600 AD on a great build. Compare this to the 200-300 armor and 100-200 MR that people can build.


All those stats aren't completely equal, they aren't comparable at a 1:1 exchange.

A typical burst rotation does 1,0001,300 damage at level 18 from bases alone.

Average level 18 HP is 2000 from bases alone. Bases are ridiculously close for most champions - mostly runes, items, and masteries are what seperates squish from tank. Miss Fortune has 1965 HP at level 18 and Shen has 1958.

A typical burst rotation needs ~450 AP to deal double damage - or ~2,000 damage.

Even when you account for base MR throwing off the amount of MR you need to halve incoming damage, you only need a maximum of 152 MR to get that.

As for AD - 110 is the level 18 average for AA damage. You litterally only need 110 AD to double your AA DPS, which is not hard to acquire. With 80% Crit and IE's bonus you double that damage again (quadruple damages) - which would cause 1 AD to equal roughly 2 AP if all other things were equal.

Also consider each point of AP only adds ~2.22 damage to an entire burst rotation (assuming 450 doubles 1k), so you only need to auto-attack 3 times for AD to be even. Or auto-attack once with an IE cirt and you surpass it.

As for armor vs. MR - Sunfire Cape and Omen are only 5 armor above the MR provided by Spirit Visage and Banshee's Veil. You have to go for (fairly questionably) armor items that offer no health whatsoever to really get better armor vs. MR item gains. Mostly you just have more armor because a typical champ gets ~75 from bases, where it's 30 or 52 MR from bases.

Also - don't count out HP. As 2k is where the average champion sits at level 18 bases, that means another 2k will double your survival that way (at 18). However - HP quadruples over the course of a game, so early-on you only need 500, mid-game 1000, late-game 1500 to 2000.


TLDR: no stats are equal, they aren't 1A = 1B. It's more like 3 AP = 1 MR, 6 AP = 1 HP.

Zyorhist1 votes

so, short of putting MR on amu or mundo, there seems to be no real benefit...

General Scoots1 votes

AD can crit. AP can't. Which is why we need Armor to be slightly more efficient than MR. You also have more opportunities to do damage with AD compared to AP unless you're a champion like Teemo.

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