So the Marksman Changes are here

TehNACHO··2 votes·5,396 views

And it is confirmed that one of the goals is making each item more of a "who/how do I want to fight" sort of deal vs "what gives the best stats", so I really want to point out the blue elephant in the room.

item 3035

I can mathematically prove that this is one of the most gold efficient items in the game against champions with less than 64 base armor (the last time I checked the Wiki, this is mini Gnar's base armor, the lowest in the game at level 18. I ignore Thresh for obvious reasons). In some bizarre cases, it's even exceedingly efficient on Assassin like champions or more gold efficient than most other options as early as the 2nd or 3rd items to rush.

Riot, you mention last whisper once in the surrender@20 article about the preseason: >Last Whisper is now a component item. It builds into new things.

and I hope this means what I think it means, but can you guys please tell us clearly if this item still operates on total armor instead of, for example, bonus armor, or if some mathematician of yours briefly went over it and made sure it's not ridiculously overtuned for fighting squishies or for Assassins to use?

On a related note, a more detailed statement on how the AD itemization changes are expected to affect AD Assassins would be greatly appreciated.

And I guess it'd be nice to end this thread on a high note. Thank you guys for the whole "who/how do I want to fight" ideal that the marksman changes are striving for. It really does get most of my grievances with marksmen and their play style out of the way, and helps solve another part of the "League of stat checking" problem I've noticed in some games.

20 Comments

RiotMeddler9 votes

Last Whisper's now cheaper, can upgrade into a couple of different options, and works against bonus Armor instead of total Armor.

Minions4eVeR2 votes

Meddler, Ezreal feels lackluster with the current itemization changes.

I mean, everything is based off crits now, and Ezreal really scales poorly with crits, resulting in such a big nerf for him.

Anything on that right now?

Talith PA2 votes

If you look at the ER changes it now gains 30% cdr when paired with a zeal's worth of crit, and they want you to buy it instead of iEdge, so they want you to go ER + TF ezreal.

Personally I'm pissed that Corki is the magic damage marksman instead of Ezreal.

Cloud Potato3 votes

Same here. AP Ezreal is way more balanced for the game than AD Ezreal is. I don't know why they keep on insisting he should be AD. Also Kog'Maw, Mr. All of my Abilities Scale From AP but Build AD Because I'm Ranged.

TehNACHO5 votes

works against bonus Armor instead of total Armor.

THANK YOU.

Oh, I think I should be more specific with the second to last part. Melee Carries Yasuo and Yi especially, how do you expect them to be affected by the changes?

Critkeeper1 votes

i want to know as well

Critkeeper1 votes

{quoted}

Last Whisper's now cheaper, can upgrade into a couple of different options, and works against bonus Armor instead of total Armor.

best news I've heard this year.

Solidair31 votes

It can... upgrade?

I am scared.

Theorchero1 votes

{quoted}

Last Whisper's now cheaper, can upgrade into a couple of different options, and works against bonus Armor instead of total Armor.

YES

MEDDLER I FUCKING LOVE YOU

VasilisGreen2 votes

So... Last whisper will only affect bonus armor... So... Imagine how this baby will now stack with Yasuo's passive... Like, 50% bonus armor pen from yasuo's ult passive and 35% bonus armor pen from lw... it will give you 67% bonus armor pen... That is kind of good news... i suppose... Nah, not really, given the fact that most tanks have high BASE ARMOR... So... What about other assassins then??? Zed or talon, Reangar or Kha'Zix that do not have a passive similar to yasuo? Since the last whisper will have upgrades, i take it that those upgrades will also only work on bonus armor... So... You will be an assassin that cannot assassinate... The death of assassins is nearly complete... thanks riot, you just destroyed my favorite champions...

Maximum Morde1 votes

{quoted}

. So... You will be an assassin that cannot assassinate... The death of assassins is nearly complete... thanks riot, you just destroyed my favorite champions...

You shouldn't be "assassinating" tanks anyway, that's stupid. Assassinate a squishy using flat pen items instead.

While I pretty much only play AP champs and it will hurt, I hope they give void staff the same treatment for consistency.

VasilisGreen2 votes

Look... ADCs like draven, graves and the sort have a high base armor value. 81 for Draven and 78 for Graves... If they buy one armor item and have a scaling armor set of seals in their rune setup, they will have 27 armor at lvl18... So, by only ignoring 40% of their bonus armor, if they have, let's say a GA, and the scaling armor runes, Draven will have 158 armor and graves 185 armor with his passive stacked up fully... So, with the last whisper items, Draven will have 127 effective armor and graves will have142 effective armor. So, even if you go full armor pen runes and a youmus for a total of 39 flat armor pen, Draven will still have 88 effective armor and Graves will have 113 effective armor... Still enough to make quick assassinations impossible while in a teamfight and add that GA effect and/or the heals coming from teammates...

Doing so with Magic pen will nor have that big of an impact because you have both more flat pen options and everyone has less base mr than armor. An exception to that is thresh that doesn't get any armor per level. So, with Magic pen in runes, liandrys and sorc boots you get 38 flat magic pen and everyone has 20-30 less base mr than armor. Some don't even get mr per level... Caitlyn and yasuo are the first that come to my mind, both have 30 base mr and don't scale by level. Zed has 86 armor at lvl 18 and 53 mr... Actualy, everyone i have checked has either 30 mr at all levels or 53.4 at level 18... So, with magic pen in runes, sorc boots and liandry's you either deal true damage or they have 15 effective mr... definitely not the same impact...

KMS Bismarck1 votes

But we dont have enough armor pen with only ghost blade. :(

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Uhm about armor. Ashe for example has 14 base armor.

TehNACHO1 votes

At level 18.

For summoner 13

KMS Bismarck1 votes

AD Assassins gonna be fked in season 6...

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

AD Assassins gonna be fked in season 6...

AD assassins are getting the remade Yomama's Ghostblade that builds out of two 25 AD items and gives no Crit.

Cloud Potato1 votes

Might be cost efficient, but not necessarily slot efficient. Considering that ADCs are based around on building as much damage as possible, I'm surprised that cost efficiency is always brought up with problematic ADC items. By the way, Phantom Dancer and Statikk Shiv are more cost efficient and more slot efficient than LW is, up until the Crit cap or huge amounts of Armor (over 200 at least), not counting the impact that APen has on abilities.

TehNACHO2 votes

While that is true, it's also true that recently the meta has been favoring mid to late game presence over hyper late stages of the game. And, when it comes to maximizing your build anyway, midgame is all about cost efficiency.

Cloud Potato1 votes

Yeah that's what I've gathered. After all, you need to get to late game first. Plus, Last Whisper has the advantage of becoming more efficient over time as well.

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