"That Champ Requires No Skill"

Toa of Death·Apr 25, 2015·109 votes·44,040 views

I hate it when people say that. Yes, some champs are easier to learn than others but every champ requires some level of skill. You think every player mastered their mains on the first game? I'm not denying that some champs don't require a whole lot of skill, but in no way does that guarantee you'll get a penta with them on the first try.

EDIT: I also find that the people who scream "X takes no skill" have actually never played that champ. Please, before you claim that a champ takes no skill, try them yourself. It's not about how OP a champ is, it's about how well the player controlling that champ knows how to use them.

252 Comments

DreadlocksApr 25, 201557 votes

I love when people use this as an excuse for losing.

Yasuo player: Your champ requires no skill. Wukong player: You're still dead.

MarhsallLee67Apr 25, 201510 votes

A Yasuo player should have no right to say that sentence, anyway.

MohawkBirdApr 25, 201530 votes

Are you saying Yasuo is easy to play? If you honestly think that I would like you to pub stomp with him in your first few games.

Blue Moon WolfApr 25, 20153 votes

he is almost the definition of a champ that takes skill. as someone who owns him but doesn't play him often, I can tell just by watching the person playing yasuo if they use him a lot or not by watching how they execute his skills. Ironically, he is much like a katana, easy to pick up, difficult to master.

ChimeiTekinaNasuApr 26, 20154 votes

I'd say he was easy to use on his release though. He was everywhere and killed everyone. Now after the nerfs, you probably have to be more careful with him to not die so much. All I see anymore is Yasuo's feeding everywhere. I remember I ganked this one Yasuo as Skarner right when he just got back to lane, and he died again instantly. 2/13 is what I see on the average Yasuo nowadays. Every now and then though, I'll see a good one randomly pop up and get fed, and start killing my entire team.

Sypher The PoroApr 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'd say he was easy to use on his release though. He was everywhere and killed everyone. Now after the nerfs, you probably have to be more careful with him to not die so much. All I see anymore is Yasuo's feeding everywhere. I remember I ganked this one Yasuo as Skarner right when he just got back to lane, and he died again instantly. 2/13 is what I see on the average Yasuo nowadays. Every now and then though, I'll see a good one randomly pop up and get fed, and start killing my entire team.

As a Yasuo main myself, this is actually pretty true. For one, Yasuo is horrible when behind. He needs items for his power spikes and damage, and without it he's pretty much a walking windwall for all he can do his team. Oh there are games where I've carried like no tomorrow, but I've also had games against another Yasuo who feed me into no tomorrow because they didn't know how to properly use his passive shield or his dash.

Loken StoneheartApr 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

As a Yasuo main myself, this is actually pretty true. For one, Yasuo is horrible when behind. He needs items for his power spikes and damage, and without it he's pretty much a walking windwall for all he can do his team. Oh there are games where I've carried like no tomorrow, but I've also had games against another Yasuo who feed me into no tomorrow because they didn't know how to properly use his passive shield or his dash.

Casually blocking ultimates like its nothing when you've fed 20 kills in a row is a lot more than most other champions can do.

ChimeiTekinaNasuApr 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As a Yasuo main myself, this is actually pretty true. For one, Yasuo is horrible when behind. He needs items for his power spikes and damage, and without it he's pretty much a walking windwall for all he can do his team. Oh there are games where I've carried like no tomorrow, but I've also had games against another Yasuo who feed me into no tomorrow because they didn't know how to properly use his passive shield or his dash.

Oh, my, wow. Deaths, deaths everywhere. wtfff. 10+ deaths. On everyone except Gangplank. I'm still not sure why GP has a BotRK though...... I sense the low level in him. My only guess why his build is what it is. 70 kills on both sides...... My matches are more like this. Not many deaths on either side.

PS: I look at your Sivir match 13/2 and somehow lost. 6/16 Fiora losing to a top lane Yi.......... She must be low level or something. Just wow. I recently faced a Yi top lane as Fiora and I won easily. Fiora losing to a top Yi, just wooow.....

Sypher The PoroApr 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Oh, my, wow. Deaths, deaths everywhere. wtfff. 10+ deaths. On everyone except Gangplank. I'm still not sure why GP has a BotRK though...... I sense the low level in him. My only guess why his build is what it is. 70 kills on both sides...... My matches are more like this. Not many deaths on either side.

PS: I look at your Sivir match 13/2 and somehow lost. 6/16 Fiora losing to a top lane Yi.......... She must be low level or something. Just wow. I recently faced a Yi top lane as Fiora and I won easily. Fiora losing to a top Yi, just wooow.....

That Fiora decided she hated us all and fed that game. If you check her build, she sold items to build Mobi boots to feed. Then sold those again for whatever reason.

Also, your game you pointed out was 20 minutes with a surrender on the enemy team, where my game lasted almost 60.

ChimeiTekinaNasuMay 1, 20152 votes

Yeah. My games are rarely 60mins. It's usually decided in 20-30mins, 40 sometimes. Cause people usually know when they've lost by then instead of continuing to feed for another 40mins.

DeliothApr 25, 20158 votes

Yasuo should have started with 'your.' "You are champ requires no skill" is wrong.

DreadlocksApr 25, 20154 votes

fixed.

Dies to WolvesApr 25, 201545 votes

I'd argue that some champions do require no skill with the champion itself, but of course, to do well in a game you (in theory at least) should be at least as overall skilled in the game as the other players in the match

take garen for example. There really isn't that much you can do to improve your game with this champion specifically outside of just get better at the game in general. At most you could argue get better at knowing the match-ups, but then again... not sure if this really fits in "champion skill" rather than "game skill".

let's be honest, if tryndamere spins near you and hits you, gets a lucky crit and wins the lane, can you really say "he's a beast at tryndamere, he totally outplayed me!"? not really. If the tryndamere player wants to win games at high elo though he should be good at split pushing and should know which match-ups he needs to be aggressive, which he needs to be passive, he needs to have map awareness, etc.

DecritApr 25, 20157 votes

Agree. Also it can be said that there are "spell based champions" where they can make a lot of fancy stuff and "tool-based champions" where they are more alike to a minion, since tools only enhance what a champion can do baseline; in the first case it taker skill to use properly because you are using something alien to the norm of the game, but in the second you can' t do stuff besides what the game already offers to you, and so it requires a deeper knowledge and practice of the game basics: how engage, how splitpush and so on.

For example Tryndamere has few skills, namely the dash and a bit the heal and the ultimate, but beside dashing and bashing he can' t do buch compared to a Braum that has CC, damage negation, jumps and so on.

aaronconlinApr 25, 201531 votes

First game as Katarina I got a Penta, and didn't feel very proud

ZirzonApr 25, 201511 votes

I did the same with Akali way back when... Felt like cheating.

SevenStrokeRollApr 25, 201514 votes

This

EarthpineApr 25, 201514 votes

I remember wrecking a Riven in lane as Cho'Gath. I had my ult up and I killed her with it, and then she told me "cho doesn't need skill, press r and win". O rly? What about when I hit you with my Q and then W your face? What about the time that you could've killed me without dieing? I just don't understand it. Like, if I DID press R on Riven, it wouldn't do much but chunk her health a bit. If you're good at a champion, it means that you're good at the mechanics and how to get kills and the combos (and so on).

Dunkrius2gApr 25, 20155 votes

Stop there. The fact that riven said Cho takes no skill is hypocrisy. Riven takes NO skill. She is one the most BS champs in the game. She/he really needs to shut it (Riven).

EarthpineApr 25, 20159 votes

Have you tried playing her? I have and I didn't know when to go in and what to do in lane. She might be your type of champion (all in) but if you like slowly damaging the enemy then, she isn't as easy for you then you might think.

Dunkrius2gApr 25, 20155 votes

Any champion isnt easy 1st time.

Rew711Apr 25, 20155 votes

I got a Quad with Zed on my first time.

Almost got a Penta but they used item 3157 and then summoner 4 too far away.

Dunkrius2gApr 25, 20151 votes

That's... Awesome. Looks like you found your main?

Rew711Apr 25, 20153 votes

I never main someone who is that easy. That's why I took up Udyr and Zac top, Gangplank and Veigar mid, Tryndamere jun, anyone including Gnar TwistedFate Urgot and Azir ADC, and Bard Taric and others as support. I also just do other random characters in many other positions to keep the game interesting towards me, such as Sion mid and Garen support.

DaxterrApr 26, 20152 votes

I always troll my team and tell them I'm playing Garen support. The one time I actually tried it we hard carried from bottom lane. I told my team "don't worry I'm garen. Just wait in this bush with me."

GavinRunebladeApr 25, 20155 votes

Completely true. Anyone wants to see what "no skill" means just come to coop vs ai beginner and see what the newbs like me are doing.

Shyvanna, why are you buying mana potions? I want to turn into a dragon faster!

An ally has been executed... An ally has been executed... An ally has been executed.... Pinginging ping ping ping ping.... An ally has been executed... Guys can someone help me with baron I don't think I can solo him... An ally has been executed

THAT is what "no skill" means. ^.^

I guarantee for every champion, at least once someone went 0-12-0 vs the ai.

The simple fact is, even in low elo most people are reasonably skilled.

CubedJusticeApr 25, 20157 votes

Then wouldn't that mean you need skill to play any champion?

Dunkrius2gApr 25, 20158 votes

You got me wp.

AuryielApr 25, 20159 votes

Akali l0l ur champion takes no skillz Anivia Wat

KonidiasApr 25, 20155 votes

Tell me how a champ like Ryze takes skill to play. You literally just click a target and mash all your buttons.

How about Pantheon? You have a targeted projectile, targeted leap stun that gets followed up with your spear stabbing move... You have an ult that you just drop down on people from like 5000 units away. You get a free block to save you from an auto attack because Riot knows you turn your brain off while playing him.

Your argument is that all champs require skill and that is wrong. Some champs require a lot of skill, others require little to no skill. The skill comes in the form of last hitting, map awareness, working with a team, communication, patience, etc...

narkApr 25, 201544 votes

I mean, there's a huge difference between

This champion requires you to press buttons in the right order at the right time, and their "OP SICK COMBOS NERF CHAMP IMMEDIATELY" are very difficult to pull off (think , , )

and

This champion requires a lot of decision making but is mechanically very easy to play at an acceptable level (think , , )

I think it's important to clarify that difference. I mean, this game is massive and how you play a champion varies greatly depending upon your lane or jungle matchup and your/your enemy's team composition.

I think the a very easy to understand example of this is Orianna . Think of her kit:

Q. Move ball do damage W. Press button do damage do cc LOL XD E. Press button shield ally R. Press button instant engage, nuke, disengage

These abilities are pretty easy to understand and sound simple compared to some kits. And even though it's a simple kit in concept, it's very easy to fuck up and look like a total scrub (how many times has that try hard Ori on your team missed her ulti? Yeah... Horror stories) However, we see this champion consistently represented in the highest level of play for her versatility. I believe she has 2 major areas of versatility which top Orianna players take advantage of.

You can choose a starting item build/starting spell (usually between Q and E) to adjust to any bad matchup or botched level ones. We've seen extremely diverse starting spell choices from Ori's depending on her matchup.
She can fulfill several roles. One second she's a nuker, the next she's a utility carry, the next she's your teams initiator.

All this from fairly simple abilities!

I can do the same thing with Ryze :

Q. OMG do massive damage every second W. Hmmm.... can't decide if I want to imprison someone or just do damage.... Why not both? E. LOL nice MR, I'll take it. (let's be honest, this also helps my Q go on cooldown earlier). R. Move fast, aoe damage on all your abilities, spell vamp? I mean, this spell alone has so many uses.

All of Ryze's abilities are point and click, no skill shots required. However a good Ryze, knows which combo to use in which situation, plus his decievingly short range on Q, W cause you to stutter step and fuck up your range often. I can't count the amount of times I've missed hitting a crucial Q or W because I stutter-stepped while attempting to cast the spell. Ryze also has some REALLY crappy matchups who can straight up abuse you due to the limitations on your early game. I think there are two huge discriminators in determining a good Ryze from a "I just played the tutorial and this champion has all easy abilities" (Ryze was the first champion I ever played, and led me into his trap because he seems so simple, WARNING: DO NOT RECOMMEND AS A STARTER CHAMP). Anyway:

Determining which order to cast your spells in is _extremely _ important. For instance, it's very tempting to open with W -> Q. A quick look at Ryze's passive says, "don't open with anything besides Q, always cast Q first". However, sometimes you're not going to be in range for a Q -> W -> Q combo, so you have to start W -> Q. What about the classic noob spotting combo. Q -> W -> E -> R -> Q. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people cast this combo. Yeah, I hit all my spells without aiming, YAY! But I completely underutilized one of Ryze's core mechanics, weaving Q between spells. Proper utilization of Ryze's passive leads to FAR more effective damage and utility output than spamming your crap the second the fight begins.
Ryze has too many build paths to list them out. Chances are, if an item has mana or ability power it might be useful to you. There are so many ways to build Ryze and understanding them is crucial to playing him well.

Anyway, end rant.

TL;DR: There are champs in this game that are easier to execute a combo with than some other champions. This does not make them any easier to play.

Dr EasterApr 25, 20152 votes

As someone that plays from Brazil on EUW playing Le Blanc with 190 ping sucks xD I agree with you tho, the "easy" champions need better decisions otherwise they become easy targets. But I do think some champions like Katarina has too much rewards

narkApr 25, 201513 votes

Well playing any champion with 190 ping most likely sucks. Why no BR? :)

Dr EasterApr 25, 20153 votes

You get used to it, it's not as bad as it looks. But these champions that need fast combs surely are bad to play, this is why I avoid LB and Riven even in ARAM. I did this video some time ago, I have 200 ping here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDEH0Ior7UE

I don't play in BR because well... the game in portuguese sounds really strange, I don't like to deal with most Brazilians in games (except for sim racing communities, those are usually good people), and the main point is that my main mode is Dominion. If I played SR I'd give it a try in the BR server, but no patience for that mode. Anyway playing with high ping is a nice training. You become really fast when you move to small pings, it's pretty impressive how much you can dodge skill shots compared to other players. :D

MannysmokerApr 26, 20151 votes

why the hell if you're from brazil u play in europe, that doesn't make sense to me.... and then u blame riot for having high pings,, when u play at the other side of the world and expect to have normal pings like them....

Dr EasterApr 26, 20153 votes

If you were smart enough to read the comment were I answer Narcmage you'd find out. Also I don't see me blaming Riot for high pings here, how you saw that? lol And anyway I indeed have lower pings in any other games when I connect to EU or NA servers, even in Dota that also has a big player base. My ping to EU is 170, and NA is around 130 for any game I play there. My ping in LoL NA used to be 160 by the way, but after they changed something and a flood of posts on forums appeared saying they have higher pings I noticed mine also increased in that region and it is now the same in NA or EUW what doesn't make much sense. And considering some people in East Coast have a ping close to mine make even less sense xD

EvilRabbittApr 25, 20156 votes

True. The major disparity in skill is to think {[one]} this is intense. Intense skill play is those MMORPG (or even console RPGs) that have 40 different abilities that need to be used in a rotation in a specific order for a decisive reason, think Skyrim or Guild Wars 2. No offense to league, but you get 4 abilities, a mindless passive (30 move towards enemy unit=vayne, free spell every now and then=liss, etc), 2 "summoner spells" or extra abilities, a trinket, and at most 6 items to activate (think support). Yes its kinda intense, but 40+ abilities in a large raid environment that can lead to a wipe of 20 or more people compared to League's ~~AT MOST~~ 13 abiltiies in a 10 player total (12 for hexa) match where you only protect 5.

The other disparity is to think that {[two]} skill is only button mashing correctly. Skill in chess is decision making. You aren't allowed to just move pieces, yet chess is VERY skill based. Skill is differentiated into a few categories summarized into two spots- Decision and Reaction. We all know reaction when you play an all skill-shot based team against a Yasuo who then dodges EVERYTHING. That Yasuo is clearly skilled, because that takes some really good reaction time and pro-lcs-god kinda timing. We also know how much we love those Orianna's and Malphite's out there who do the full-5-man-nuk'gage which also takes skill. The decision piece for skill is for pick-comps, push-comps, when to take objectives, when to bait. Who out there has played Blitz and realized that pulling the Amumu into your team was a bad choice (I sure did, learned immediately why it was a bad idea)? That's a decision not a reaction. And clearly you would call this Blitz "unskilled" or some other demeaning name for getting you all wiped. But see? That's not reaction, that's not pro mechanics, that's decision-making. Yet that Blitz is now very unskilled in our eyes.

I know this doesn't relate directly to above Rioters post and maybe not to many posts elsewise. But I felt like adding this on again. Making a thread about skill based gameplay deserves this kind of answer. Anyway:::

Sorry if this was not completely related, I just really wanted to make this point. Also, I'm not saying I'm a pro or that this game has no pros. Don't read between or behind the lines. I'm simply making a point that is as black and white as stated. I know I can never beat anyone in gold. Ever. I also know that most of us can't really stand up to people like Madlife/Faker/Bjergsen (spelling?). I'm just saying "X champ takes no skill" is a bogus line for the above reasons. This game is still intense. It still gives anxiety to some players. Please do not be offended.

Tl;dr- Skill isn't just mechanics, its decision making. Yes, Champions like Ryze/Annie/Vladimir/Darius/Teemo may not take a bunch of skill mechanically, but they take a lot of skill in decision making. When to engage, who to pressure, how to pressure, where to lead players, why this guy is a bigger threat than that one and how do I take them down. No offense intended.

Edit: Inb4 downvoted to -9999999 because I stated something that sounded aggressive while explaining it was not. Rip.

narkApr 25, 201516 votes

Ok,

I'd like to address a major point that you brought up. The difference between WoW and League is a crucial one to recognize and understand. One of the things that Riot talks a lot about is Complexity vs Depth. It can sound kinda circlejerky and silly but I think it applies here.

Yes, there are so many less factors contributing to your play from a "what can I do with my character" perspective. However, there are many MORE factors introduced based on the matchups and the people on the other ends of the keyboards. Some of that is introduced simply by the idea that League is a PvP game whereas high level raiding is PvE. But I think you can take it in the context of WoW PvP. Yeah, each class has 40-50 relevant abilities that I need to know to play WoW PvP effectively, but there's only ten classes. That means there are about 500 things that I need to know about to at least start to make my decisions. Contrast that with League. LoL has 120 plus champions each having 5-6 things to think about, maybe even 10 - 12 if you consider items. This adds up to at least 600-700 potential factors in my decision making process.

The numbers don't mean much, they're kind of arbitrary in this discussion. But I would say that the skill in this game doesn't only come from the difficulty in executing a champion's effective combos, but in the broader implications of the decisions that I make with my character. I can't tell you how many times I've lost due to game sense. I mean, look at my placement matches. I'm 1-8 this season (ranked, I play a lot more normal draft than ranked), and in almost all of those games I won my lane and went positive overall. The major contributing factor to my losses (besides my stupid team LOL amirite XD) was my inability to translate lane dominance to map dominance.

EvilRabbittApr 25, 20154 votes

I wasn't saying it was easy, look at my placements too lol. Been cycling through my Bronze 4 promos like I do with my dinners. I was just saying that telling anyone "X champ is takes no skill" is pointless because ~~technically~~ no "champ" takes skill. GAMEPLAY takes skill, champs specifically do not- imo ofc. Again, I agree that this is still intense- I meant to reference the line I mentioned above about "X champ takes no skill" and the technical answer. LoL is definitely more difficult that games like WoW or Gw2 or LOTRO. Same issue on my part, dominate lane most of the time but can't translate to mapwise well enough. Anyway, sorry to have rustled up a brawl- just wanted to help outline the idiocy of verbal abuse. Btw, totally unrelated to anything, you guys are doing fantastic =D. Very balanced season. Vayne may need a minor buff imo, and Maokai a TINY nerf but otherwise pretty sturdy balance =D. Couldn't resist that bit.

narkApr 25, 20155 votes

No brawling here, good discussion from my perspective!

SolekaApr 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

TL;DR: There are champs in this game that are easier to execute a combo with than some other champions. This does not make them any easier to play.

Sona is a champ that is Deceptive. She's very easy to play

Q: Do damage to two champions or minions, but you can't choose the target. Give increased damage to ally in her bubble. W: Heal yourself and one other champion, but you can't choose the target. Shield anyone inside her bubble. E: Speed yourself up, speed up any ally inside her bubble. R: fat Line Nuke stun.

Her R can engage, but it's too short to do it safely. Generally you have to either ambush with her R or wait till someone else engages and hit them with the R as soon as they go to run. Then to play to her passive it feels like you need to be Bach on speed, especially in teams fights. In team fights, after you blow her R, your spamming Q and W till your Keyboard puts up the white flag. Occasionally throwing out E when you need that burst of damage (which is all the time).

narkApr 25, 20159 votes

Actually Sona is a great champion to have this discussion around, albeit one that causes me to question some of my original argument.

Hmm..... Sona might be too easy to play at an acceptable level. One of my design friends likes to say, "play 100 games with Lee Sin and you'd be lucky to have a 50% win rate, play 100 games as Sona and you'd be hard pressed to NOT have a 50% winrate... "

What are your thoughts on her? Too easy? Hard to make yourself shine as a great Sona player?

Another thing that we like to talk about at Riot is differentiating the good [Insert champion here] and the great [insert champion here]. Besides hitting her ultimate (and even then, the range/width is fucking massive so you shouldn't miss it too often, especially with flash), does Sona hurt or help that design goal?

HellioningApr 25, 20155 votes

First off, Lee Sin is SO much easier than people give him credit for. I find the fact that people treat him as something so incredibly difficult irritating.

Secondly, Sona should be an easy champ to play. There needs to be easy champs, or else a newbie is gonna come in, see everyone with five normal skills and a paragraph long passive, and decide this game is too much work.

Thirdly, Sona has plenty of issues. She's squishy and low mobility, meaning that any sort of hard engage ruins her; her range isn't great, so trying to poke results in her being in range of basically everything outside of melee range, and she guzzles mana like Anivia if she's trying to heal up. Good Sona players know when to go in so that she doesn't take much return fire; bad Sona players try to constantly get double Qs and instead get Zenith Blades.

SerBlaiseApr 25, 20153 votes

Sona is an excellent champion to start with. It's hard to be a bad sona because you have only one skillshot and everything happens automatically. Of course, you are very very very easy to kill. But i think her skill level can be noticable. for example, i love to build lichbane on her, if i'm not too gold starved. It has the potential to greatly increase my poke. But there is a certain rhythm to using it properly; if you space out your abilities you can maximize your LB procs. I know you can do that with any champion...but it's just an example of further mastery.

T RexHasLongLegsApr 25, 20156 votes

I don't play a ton of sona, but I think she definitely has a difference between min and max skill that is pretty obvious. The argument comes down mostly to that a mechanically perfect Lee Sin or LB could win bronze and silver games pretty easy w/ no mini map and with their ability to see enemy item builds removed, while a split push champ or something would be hurt MUCH more by this and have a harder time winning because they rely on decisions and reacting to the enemy more than mechanics of the kit.

Sona may not be a champ that has the hardest decisions to make, but there is a big difference between the sona that pokes the enemy lane so low they leave and one that builds an even bigger advantage by poking the enemy down, judging their damage and ADC's damage and making the call to go for the kill right when they have the skill and damage to do it and before the enemy gets low enough to realize they might die. There are other examples of sona skill I'm sure but this seems the most obvious to me at least.

Earl EulrichApr 25, 20157 votes

I´d argue Sona is a pretty forgiving Champ to play, but she´s still hard to master. Her e might be one of the strongest abilities in the game if used deceisivly and a huge part of her winrate in ARAM actually (so hard to get a good engage on someone that can just run away with absurd speed). Also, she´s a Champ that can win most lanes if played aggressivly, but you really have to know the limits of your aggression to not pay dearly for it (though she manages to cling along passivly too well, which is why she´s maybe a too forgiving Champ atm). Lee isn´t really much more complex than Sona, he´s just very unforgiving in lategame teamfights (though he´s very forgiving early on due to his ability to escape almost any own stupidity he just did a second earlier)...which puts him in a similar position as e.g. Zed. Both are stronger lategame than they are early on, but it takes a lot of skill to access that powerlevel (just watch Peke or AlexIch playing Zed in teamfights, that´s pure beauty most of the times...or some of the chinese/korean Lee-Sins). With Sona however a lot of her strength gets accessed by just floating along later on in the game, without most players even noticing it/playing around it activly.

Sire HippingtonApr 25, 20153 votes

I think there is not that much that seperates good from great sonas, there isn't all that much room for the sonaplayer himself, but there is a huge difference in how you play together with sona as a teammate and how you use her as a team.

in terms of masterie from a 5v5 point rather than the actuall sona-player, there is a huge difference. If your teamates activly use your 'snuggle-zones', the order in which you use them suddenly becomes more important, and most of all if your team utilizes the absurd mapmobillity that a low cd teamwide speed-buff offers, it makes a huge difference. Sona is even more than most other champions pretty dependent on how the entire team uses her, not just the specific player.

However, what i really dislike is how little counterplay for her enemies she offers. There is not much you can do to avoid her main damage besides staying out of range, there is no real way to mittigate her utillity, and even her ult is so fast that you hardly can react without instant repositioning like flash. All you can do is hope for an positional fail from her and punish it by blowing her up as she's fairly squishy and a easy target.

CetherApr 26, 20153 votes

Oooh can I? As someone who had several hundred Sona games pre-rework and just maybe a hundred at most post I feel like I have something to say about this. On old Sona one of the things you could tell if someone was good with Sona was how they rotated their spells to weave in their enhanced autos.

Your opponent engaged on your ad? Hold off on an auto till you can use your damage decrease passive or your slow if they start running. You engage with your ult and don't have the burst to kill? The slow is better than the increased damage.

There's a lot of context based decisions but a good Sona would use her passive at crucial times and it was highly noticeable. The quote-unquote stance dance of Sonas old passive was one of the things I loved most about her. And now it's gone on current Sona. The reason it's gone now isn't because her passive is worse than it used to be, but because her cool downs are so long it's unviable to wait to get the passive casts for the correct spell you want to use. This means almost every single time you have a situation where you'd like to be able to cast a certain passive you can't do it. This forces Sonas into using their spells in a binary way in regards to her passive: Keep 2 stacks at all times in preparation for a fight, not spamming your abilities so you can cast the correct one when the fight starts and then really never choose which one you want to use after that. OR Don't auto things. Ever. This will use the wrong passive.

Obviously both of these choices are really kinda sucky and detrimental for the passive enhanced auto style. Which sucks because this used to be one of the really nice things about being a really good Sona is you could get so much more out of her passive, if you kept track of how many stacks you were at and used your spell rotation in such a way that your cooldowns would let you proc the passives you wanted. It was like playing cooldown chess. It was highly noticeable, and the lack of being able to do that is also highly noticeable.

I'm not a balance team rep but I'd like to see her overall power on her passive slightly reduced and have instead have it cast every 2 spells instead of 3. This would let her choose to use her slow or her damage reduction with only one Q cast, instead of having to wait 12+ seconds if you're playing absolutely optimally to use anything other than the powerchord proc. Or just give it a cooldown (like can only activate once every six seconds) and make it instantly activate without stacks. I like the first idea more because it's more interactive and makes Sona a more interesting champ but the second one is probably simpler and more friendly for the enemy team to understand. Either way I'd like to see the play style be a big part of playing Sona well like it used to be.

gubigubiApr 25, 20152 votes

according to riot MissFortune 1/10 difficulty rating Morgana 1/10 difficulty rating are the easiest champions to play

http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/

Sightless66Apr 25, 20157 votes

Riot's difficulty ratings are meant to be for new players, and they say how easy it is to pick up that champion and play them decently (measured by comparing the winrates on the first game a person has on a champion compared to the winrates some number of games later). Morgana and MF are easy by this measure because their effective playstyle is very straightforward and easy to execute. Morg throws a Q at someone and then you hit them. MF just wants to aggressively trade with people and then get big ults off. For new players, that's easy to pick up and understand. It isn't meant to be a measure of how much skill they take to pull off at higher levels of play.