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The state of Crit in league is a big part of why item diversity sucks ass.

Bârd··20 votes·11,903 views

I'm not saying "Oh Crit is so weak that you never see these poor items picked up". I'm not saying "Oh Crit is so strong that they're literally the only items getting picked up". I'm not saying anything about whether crit is too strong or not.

I'd like to make a comparison between crit in League and crit in Dota.

In Dota, Crit is a subset of abilities. Lots of heroes have them innately in their kits, so they don't need to buy an item to let them crit. If you don't have crits but want them, you spend a bunch of gold on an item that gives it to you.

An item. As in, you buy one item, taking up one inventory slot. You can't spec your entire build into crits, since there are only two complete items that give crit and they roll seperately. You can dip into crits and you can still build basically whatever the hell you want otherwise.

Meanwhile, look at League.

If you're a carry, and you want to use Crit, you need to invest three item slots into crit.

item 3031 to make your crits do anything Something out of item 3086 to give you attack speed to trigger crits more often Something out of item 3086 or item 3508 to make your crit a reliable DPS tool

After that, you only have three slots to work with, so you just need to slot in what you need.

item 3006 because your champion probably doesn't have another option. item 1053 Some lifesteal item because you need it to survive. item 3026 or item 3156 or item 3033

So yeah.

IMO, Crit in its current state is bad for the game.

It's not because "RNG BAD" or "BUFF/NERF ADC PLZ", it's because every crit build is the goddamn same, and until crit gets completely overhauled there's no way of changing this.

Also, this is neither here nor there, but if crit were removed from their item line, the Zeal items could be made not only applicable to the entire roster, but just much more interesting in general.

45 Comments

EATARI4 votes

I made a proposition on this topic myself, which strangely got ignored. Basically, I suggested that crit become a flat percent damage increase on AA instead of a percent chance for double damage. This would allow crit to remain otherwise unchanged, but allow you to build only one or two crit items and still have consistent damage. Ex; Under the current system with 50% Crit and 100 AD you to deal either 100 or 200 damage, with an average of 150 damage. This new system would cause you to only deal 150 damage, with an average of 150 damage.

Bârd1 votes

That got ignored because it's a proposed rework for Crit that just straight up isn't Crit.

Crit has problems, but randomness isn't one of them (especially with the low multipliers in League).

HàrrowR2 votes

{quoted}

I made a proposition on this topic myself, which strangely got ignored. Basically, I suggested that crit become a flat percent damage increase on AA instead of a percent chance for double damage. This would allow crit to remain otherwise unchanged, but allow you to build only one or two crit items and still have consistent damage. Ex; Under the current system with 50% Crit and 100 AD you to deal either 100 or 200 damage, with an average of 150 damage. This new system would cause you to only deal 150 damage, with an average of 150 damage.

Basically Ashe passive

EATARI1 votes

Pretty much. That’s the reason you can build BORK and Runaan’s and it doesn’t feel awful; you have that consistent damage even with 25% crit.

Hayaishi23 votes

Good thread.

Crit being the way it is exactly why it's always :3 ADCs are on top and the rest are garbage:.

ProfDrDeath3 votes

Personally, I'd love it if Riot hard-capped champions at 2 Crit Items. As in, a player can only buy 2 out of these item 3031 item 3508 item 3046 item 3094 item 3087 and then needs to flush out the rest of his build with other stuff. This would limit ADC's raw, unmitigated DPS to something more manageable (you know, like in the seasons before season 6) and allow for more build diversity.

Of course, with this approach, one would need to make the three Zeal Upgrades also come in somewhere around 3300-3400 gold in power.

Moment, 3 Zeal Upgrades? What about item 3085 ? Hardcapping Crit Items at 2 would allow a retooling of this item away from Crit Chance. Maybe turn it back into a pure AS item? Or give another interesting stat line?

Also, I'd make item 3071 and Lethality mutually exclusive. As in, purchasing Cleaver hard sets your Lethality to 0.

Bârd2 votes

This doesn't fix anything.

We just get Stormrazor all over again.

"Hey ADC's, stop stacking crit"

"OK, what do we build now?"

"idk rush a targons or something lul"

Crit can be balanced in its current state, the problem is that its lame as hell and does away with the concept of adaptive itemization.

BLIGHTBRINGER3 votes

What annoys me most about Crit is that Lifesteal will heal you off of the bonus damage you deal with Crits, whereas the Passive On-Hit damage from other items like; Wit's End, Rageblade Passive Damage, Nashors Tooth Passive Damage, Runaans Hurricane Passive Damage won't gain the same benefit.

And Crit Marksman at times feel really hard to kill because of how much Lifesteal synergizes with Crits.

That's why Draven is impossible to kill 1v1, Lifesteal heals you from the damage dealt by your basic attacks so his Q bonus Damage + Crit Damage together heals him for a shit ton.

Shahamut2 votes

I think there is plenty of room in this topic for good discussion. Upvoted.

Yboat2 votes

My only complaint about crit is that I think rng needs to go.

HamburgerJunior2 votes

I agree with this for the most part. To be honest though, League is a game with over 100 million players on live every day. It's a game with high stakes money tournaments and is competitively played all over the world. Why the fuck is crit even still a thing? It's absolutely ridiculous that it's remained in the game for this long. There shouldn't be that kind of RNG in a game like this, it's absurd. Look at literally ANY OTHER popular competitive game. You won't find any crit, or really much of any rng at all. Like, 7 years ago when riot was still figuring out what this game was going to be i understood crit being in the game. Now? No, there's no excuse for it to exist still. there isn't a single champ on the rift that NEEDS crit to function other than jhin and he can be easily tweaked to fix that.

TL:DR take crit out of the goddamn game.

Stephenizgod2 votes

This isn't just a problem with Crit, although I agree 100% with your assessment of Crit in the game. I have had a problem with the way Crit is implemented in the game for a long time but I wasn't quite sure what I thought was wrong. You shone light on it I think and now I can see why I felt Crit was just bad.

Almost every class has the same issue: you build the same 3 core items across the class, 1 of the 2 boots efficient for your class and matchup, then you have 2 items for either more damage or some form of survive-ability. It is most apparent within the Marksmen i believe, but Mages and Juggernauts/Bruisers also tend to have the same builds. Supports are split with Tanks, Mages, and actual Supports, but even then they generally all build the same 3 items.

Impekkable2 votes

I had to log in just to respond to this.

As someone that put thousands of hours into Dota 1, and have at least 5k hours in League, I wish I could up vote this thread 1000 times. This is EXACTLY what League needs the most at the moment, and it would make games so much more interesting when you actually have to think about the items you're building.

To add onto to this, I think slowing the game down slightly and giving more space to farm and or take advantage of unique items and their effects would greatly improve the game as well. Certain items could skew more towards early game advantages, while other items would skew more towards mid or late game.

mack91122 votes

So your want to make adcs let’s reliant on items to achieve there ideal Crit fantasy ?

Would this just not mean they would all just build the best defensive items to fill the slots previously filled with Crit items.

All the builds would still be exactly the same.

Bârd2 votes

First... no.

The "Crit fantasy" is a dumb idea and shouldn't exist.

They should be item reliant to get crit.

Reliant on one item, a super greedy mid-late game pickup suited for once they've picked up enough attack speed, defenses, and damage to make it worth grabbing over different items.

item 3031 could literally be the only crit item in the game and it would be good.

  • 80 AD
  • An average AA DPS increase of 31.25% (37.5% for old IE's 2.5x multiplier)

Would anybody rush it? No.

Attack Speed stackers might pick it up as a fourth item to give them some raw DPS. AD stackers might pick it up second or third to give them burst.

This is fine. This is not some chaotic, evil idea. This is literally just a more extreme version of season 3, when people built BT first instead of IE (I'd hope for better item diversity than that, but baby steps)

You don't fucking need Zeal items to kick this into overdrive. With 3 crit items, you have a 75% chance to crit for 2.25x damage, which is a DPS increase of 93.75%. That's fucking absurd.

Second, that's not how carries work. Their purpose isn't to hold their IE and look pretty. Their purpose is to kill the entire enemy team. Yes, some items with defense should be necessary to do this. No, this does not mean that a naked IE is good.

Ashe "wtf Malphite is OP he literally takes no damage" Soraka "What? 0/3 how are you not dealing damage to hi-" Ashe item 3031 item 3075 item 3111 item 3025 item 3083 item 3065 Soraka a summoner has disconnected

Third, that's only if Riot fails to make any good item designs. It's not hard to make something that's better than "item 3031 item 3086 item 3086 item 3006 item 3080 item 3033 on every champion every game", but Riot has to stop being a bunch of pussies and make some real items.

Eonslegacy2 votes

You forget the fact, that a lot of champions kits/abilities just don't compete with the numbers crit gives at all. For example, if Zed pushes R and right clicks you with an IE and crits, you just took 4 shurkens worth of damage if its late game. This requires base damages to be insanely high for ad scalers to go into lethality instead of crit(as the ad ones always auto). __ This also forces bruisers to go into hp damage items instead of lethality because their abilities typically dont do anywhere NEAR the damage of a crit, so its just pointless to buy lethality, and they cant utilize crit for lack of engage(melee) so they are forced to be SUPER TANKY damage dealers. Then tri force and spear of shojin break everything anyway. This Also severely reduces the raw power of ad scaling abilities because ad scaling is terrible and entirely balanced around the idea of a crit being possible (crit renekton hitting for 5x ad comes to mind... terrible idea on the build but very high reward). Champs like pantheon cant build enough raw damage to make their Q lethal so they need 470(650 on execute) base damage to make lethality valuable as 2x bonus ad scaling (3x on execute) isnt enough to come CLOSE to the value a normal auto crit would give (2.25x ad factors into the base 120 or so ad people have making the base damages of abilities need to be over 250 to beat crits long before the 2.25x bonus ad scaling.)

Sailor Mint1 votes

What do we gain from wrecking the build paths for a handful champions?

The idea of having to rework a dozen champions that are closely tied to crit for the sake of change and "variety" is a lot more disruptive than the ill fated (and mostly reverted) 2018 marksmen update.

Ragnaveil12 votes

Crit overall needs a rework. The Marksmen update didn't fix that.

Sailor Mint1 votes

You don't explain why it needs a rework and what there is to gain from it.

How would it make the game better to change it?

Bârd11 votes

Because if you're building to Crit people, that's all your build will accomplish, and that's lame as fuck.

There already aren't a lot of situational items for an ADC to choose between, but the fact that Crit takes up 3 of your item slots means you just don't have space for even those.

Ragnaveil1 votes

And ADCs bitch they get destroyed by assassins too easily. Theres your fucking reason.

Bârd8 votes

If it's done properly, we gain dozens of buildpaths for every champion and lose nothing of value.

Barely any champions would even need to be touched.

item 3031 80 Attack Damage UNIQUE Passive - Crit Damage: Increases the multipliers of any crits by 0.25. UNIQUE Passive - Critical Strike: Wielder has a 30% chance to crit for 2x damage

item 3086 Zeal and its derivative items no longer grant critical strike. They now grant a moderate amount of attack damage.

item 3508 Either doesn't exist or has been reworked.

Tryndamere "Tryndamere has up to a 35-50% chance (based on level) to crit for 2x damage, based on his current fury".

Yasuo Removed doubling crit chances. "Yasuo has a 25/50/75/100% chance to crit for 1.8x damage at levels 1/6/11/16".

Ashe "Enemies afflicted with Frost Shot take 10-50% bonus damage from Ashe's basic attacks"

Caitlyn Quinn Xayah Removed crit chance ratios. AD ratios on these abilities now additionally scale with level. Harrier CD lowered based on level.

Kindred Removed crit damage ratio on E. Multiplier increased by 5%.

Jhin Removed crit chance > AD conversion. AS > AD conversion increased from 25% to 44%.

The only champions you even need to consider here are the ones with Crit built directly into their kits, and even in those cases you don't need to do anything.

As long as you're replacing those items with something good, it doesn't matter.

If you don't believe me, lets see how one of the biggest Crit ADC's, Draven, would do with Dota's items, in which their IE equivalent costs 5330 gold.

As it turns out... he would be completely fine.

If Draven were ported into Dota 2 right now as a ranged strength hero, his build could contain almost any combination of:

  • Phase Boots
  • Power Treads
  • Hurricane Pike
  • Mjolnir
  • Satanic
  • Desolator
  • Daedelus
  • Diffusal Blade
  • Monkey King Bar
  • Black King Bar
  • Heart of Tarrasque
  • Sange and Yasha
  • Assault Cuirass
  • Bloodthorn
  • Blink Dagger
  • Drum of Endurance
  • Nullifyer
  • Moon Shard
  • Linken's Sphere
  • Hood of Defiance
  • Aghanim's Scepter
  • Hand of Midas
  • Boots of Travel
  • Silver Edge
  • Eye of Skadi
  • Heaven's Halberd

The Marksman rework didn't fail because League's system for Crit is some sacred thing that can't be changed.

The Marksman rework failed because League's items suck, and Riot refuses to fix that issue.

Hell, if Riot wanted to, they could literally build unique crit chances/multipliers into each champion's BASE STATS, but they won't.

Sailor Mint1 votes

If it's done properly, we gain dozens of buildpaths for every champion and lose nothing of value.

No champion has "dozens" of build paths in a world where analysts get paid to theorycraft optimal builds.

At the end of the day, every champion will have specific core items, supported by a handful situational items.

I mean it's really cute to pretend that you can build half the items in the game. I should be able to relate since I OTP a champion that's been played competitively in all 5 positions and still has quite a few distinct soloQ viable item builds.

But really, every champion has an optimal role/position/item build. And it's not an item rework that will change that perception.

And seriously, looking at your list makes me wonder why you don't build Wit's End, Triforce or even Spirit Visage on Draven. Because they'd be more viable and make more sense than half the DotA items you listed.

Bârd8 votes

Yes, dozens of builds is not only possible but an inevitable outcome, but only if the item system you create isn't complete and utter garbage.

The entire idea that every champion only has a couple core items, plus a situational pickup here or there, is a concept exclusive to League, and it only exists because Riot is terrible at making items and is too lazy to up their game.

There isn't a champion in League with an acceptable level of item diversity. Kai'sa comes close, but she's just somebody who has variation patch-to-patch, you don't see anybody changing up her build game to game.

I'm not just speculating that "Hey, man, my AP Tristana could work".

I'm saying this as somebody with 1.7k hours in Dota 2 (which is still a pretty meager amount), because even I know that if you just copy/paste an item build from game to game in Dota, you are going to lose.

To drill it into your head that this is not how it has to be, I'll tell you WHY a Draven would build each and every one of the items I listed.

  • Phase Boots give raw damage, making them the better boots for a Draven going for a Burst/Assassin style.
  • Power Treads give attack speed, making them better for a Draven going for a DPS style.
  • Hurricane Pike gives Draven considerable mobility mid-fight, gives him bonus attack range, and gives respectable stats.
  • Mjolnir is a good complement to any attack speed heavy character, and it builds out of an item that would let Draven farm extremely quickly.
  • Satanic gives a massive amount of lifesteal, turning Draven into a nigh-invincible drain tank.
  • Desolator gives flat armor reduction and raw damage, making it great for bursting and objective control.
  • Daedelus gives Crits, making it great for a DPS style.
  • Diffusal Blade gives mana burn and (more importantly) a crippling slow on its active, allowing Draven to snowball the early game.
  • Monkey King Bar counters evasion.
  • Black King Bar renders you immune to CC and magic damage, making it impossible for anybody who isn't a carry to shut you down or stop you from catching axes.
  • Heart of Tarrasque is essentially Warmogs, and is the only massive HP boost in the game. Since it gives STR, and Draven would be an STR hero, this is also a damage item.
  • Sange and Yasha is two component items together. You can dissassemble them at any time to create their derivative items, both of which are potentially very good on Draven.
  • Assault Cuirass is great for pushing and teamfights.
  • Bloodthorn gives a silence and makes every attack against your target crit, which is very strong for a Burst Draven.
  • Blink Dagger lets Draven blink on top of a guy and use his damage.
  • Nullifyer shuts down enemy active items, situationally being very strong.
  • Hood of Defiance gives a magic damage shield, allowing Draven to survive against burst mages.
  • Aghanim's Scepter does something unique, so there's no telling how it would benefit Draven.
  • Midas gives a massive Econ boost, making sure Draven will always get his items by late game.
  • Boots of Travel are picked up lategame by pretty much everybody, so Draven would upgrade eventually too.
  • Silver Edge lets Draven go invisible and disable passives, great for a Burst Draven.
  • Eye of Skadi is like Frozen Mallet, but it also gives attack speed/mana and also slows attack speed, making it a great anti-carry item.
  • Halberd is a disarm, making it potentially even better than Skadi for an anti-carry style, but only if they don't have BKB or illusions.

Dota 2 Items are all about unique effects.

The answer is never as simple as "Daedalus gives me the highest damage output, so I'll go with that".

There are a million other factors.

  • I need a BKB early or I'll get locked down and die before I deal any damage.
  • I need an Aeon Disc or I'll get killed by Void.
  • I need MKB or PA will dodge all my attacks.
  • I need Force Staff to get out of Riki's fog.
  • I need a Deso this game because they have little enough armor that Deso would give me more damage here.
  • I need a Linkens because otherwise Rubick will steal my Spinning Axes and become a better version of me.
  • I need to end this game before Daedalus comes online, because they have a better late game.
  • We have a comp where my late game is untouchable, so I'll just go Midas to make sure I reach it.
  • I need Mjolnir or PL is going to swarm us.
Eonslegacy1 votes

No champion should have an optimal build vs 5 different champions every single game. No build should yield a optimal result against orianna as it would against jax or alistar.

Ragnaveil1 votes

I would remove Trynd's though or at least remove the reset from crit on his E.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Check out GP's 50/50 build, and say again that we lose "nothing of value" when all crit builds stay random until lategame -_-"

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

If it's done properly, we gain dozens of buildpaths for every champion and lose nothing of value.

Barely any champions would even need to be touched.

item 3031 80 Attack Damage UNIQUE Passive - Crit Damage: Increases the multipliers of any crits by 0.25. UNIQUE Passive - Critical Strike: Wielder has a 30% chance to crit for 2x damage

item 3086 Zeal and its derivative items no longer grant critical strike. They now grant a moderate amount of attack damage.

item 3508 Either doesn't exist or has been reworked.

Tryndamere "Tryndamere has up to a 35-50% chance (based on level) to crit for 2x damage, based on his current fury".

Yasuo Removed doubling crit chances. "Yasuo has a 25/50/75/100% chance to crit for 1.8x damage at levels 1/6/11/16".

Ashe "Enemies afflicted with Frost Shot take 10-50% bonus damage from Ashe's basic attacks"

Caitlyn Quinn Xayah Removed crit chance ratios. AD ratios on these abilities now additionally scale with level. Harrier CD lowered based on level.

Kindred Removed crit damage ratio on E. Multiplier increased by 5%.

Jhin Removed crit chance > AD conversion. AS > AD conversion increased from 25% to 44%.

The only champions you even need to consider here are the ones with Crit built directly into their kits, and even in those cases you don't need to do anything.

As long as you're replacing those items with something good, it doesn't matter.

If you don't believe me, lets see how one of the biggest Crit ADC's, Draven, would do with Dota's items, in which their IE equivalent costs 5330 gold.

As it turns out... he would be completely fine.

If Draven were ported into Dota 2 right now as a ranged strength hero, his build could contain almost any combination of:

  • Phase Boots
  • Power Treads
  • Hurricane Pike
  • Mjolnir
  • Satanic
  • Desolator
  • Daedelus
  • Diffusal Blade
  • Monkey King Bar
  • Black King Bar
  • Heart of Tarrasque
  • Sange and Yasha
  • Assault Cuirass
  • Bloodthorn
  • Blink Dagger
  • Drum of Endurance
  • Nullifyer
  • Moon Shard
  • Linken's Sphere
  • Hood of Defiance
  • Aghanim's Scepter
  • Hand of Midas
  • Boots of Travel
  • Silver Edge
  • Eye of Skadi
  • Heaven's Halberd

The Marksman rework didn't fail because League's system for Crit is some sacred thing that can't be changed.

The Marksman rework failed because League's items suck, and Riot refuses to fix that issue.

Hell, if Riot wanted to, they could literally build unique crit chances/multipliers into each champion's BASE STATS, but they won't.

So what you are saying is that "if done properly" people would just go and find the one build that is clearly better than the others and build that instead? Because that is literally what happens with each and every single build in the game. Champions have builds that they will constantly go for regardless of situation with only one or two items AT MOST where they would feel comfortable in changing.

Bârd2 votes

"If done properly", the build that is "clearly better than every other build" will be a different build in every match.

Sure, there's a dominant build for every champion in League, but it doesn't have to be like that.

The only reason that's the case is that Riot can't think of any effects to give items other than "+Stats".

HàrrowR2 votes

{quoted}

"If done properly", the build that is "clearly better than every other build" will be a different build in every match.

Sure, there's a dominant build for every champion in League, but it doesn't have to be like that.

The only reason that's the case is that Riot can't think of any effects to give items other than "+Stats".

Thing is people don't want build diversity, trust me, i change up my builds on ADCs every damn game and as soon as you're not buying what the recommended tab is showing you're getting pinged,flamed and become the sole reason why you lost a game just because you've built item 3046 instead of item 3094

item 3031 item 3087 item 3094 combo was nerfed to the ground with IE nerfed to give 225% crit, shiv and rfc damage halved from what it used to be yet people still buy it by default even though you now have an item that literally gives you a 600 hp shield late game, that's 30% of your HP and people still buy a useless shiv over pd.

Just look at some of my builds https://gyazo.com/45403f37aabf498d0845a4d9f19d9d0f https://gyazo.com/01a41308f25b3a0dc93854d8c4ca3b5e https://gyazo.com/693eb742458359ccbfffc21882b157c3 https://gyazo.com/e77d56716fb9ad15b2b48229f49395ea https://gyazo.com/d0c4c755680b9d5877a7e4009906fab3

0 AS items twitch, yet i 3 shot people, look at my Vayne and Kog builds, you can attack move to the enemy nexus, grab a glass of water and come back with a triple kill yet people insist on building full glass canon damage with rfc shiv like there's no tomorrow, of course those builds work too, https://gyazo.com/38a978fb2971d45e5f1253ec239a0cae but i'd argue that IE PD ER is a much better combo than IE ShIv RFC on basically any ADC yet people won't build it unless a streamer starts doing it like they did with IE ER Caitlyn, it was good before it, yet no one cared or dared to usurp the standard build path.

Hell i remember making a post over a year ago arguing how IE PD LDR tristana is much better than IE Shiv RFC and i had a 5 page argument with a guy that just couldn't comprehend that you can have higher DPS even with lower AS even after posting like 10 clips of me aaing a target dummy nevermind using my abilities that scaled better with the damage, his mind literally couldn't comprehend it, he said i photoshoped it.

Eonslegacy1 votes

Indeed, crit right now either over shadows or is underpowered, with absolutly no flavor. its either the best and only thing you can build, or you just cant build it.

Daddy Ants1 votes

Meanwhile...

Mages build the same 3 items almost every game.

Mages build the same boots every single game.

But I don't see anyone talking about that!

Ragnaveil1 votes

Because Mages dont give a damn. They love their overtuned items. Deathcap and Void are the two.

Bârd1 votes

Mage items are bad, but at least they have the illusion of situational items.

ADC itemization is an embarrassment.

Posui Gart1 votes

In Dota, crit chance stacks in a different way. Every next crit source has weaker efficiency, so you either build 1 crit item, or you don't build it at all. Also there are a lot more AD items with other effects Here, crit stacks additively and there are additional modifiers for it. With IE, crit items are better than others, so if you build IE, you aren't going anything other than crit build, and if you get a crit item, you have to get IE to make it worth the slot and gold. Now I don't think this is bad. There are enough crit items so even if you are forced to get 3 of them, your only "fixed" item is IE Your ADC deals good damage with his spells? item 3508 Need some range for that 1st AA/Already have some sweet Energize effects? item 3094 Need some waveclear/AOE damage? item 3085 or item 3087 depending on your champion Need some survivability? item 3046 Pick 2, add IE. The order of items is situational too

Zenai101 votes

Its better than assassin diversity. 12 longswords, 3 dirks and 3 cd hammers

xelaker1 votes

You would have to make crit so bad that raw damage and pen replaces it. There will always be a must build for the adcs since they only want to do the most damage in the shortest time possible.

Bârd1 votes

No, just make Crit a one-off stat on a couple items/abilities and then change your other items.

If your item design is so bland and uninteresting that the correct answer to every build is "just go for the most possible damage", that's a terrible design and should be overhauled.

Cameramon1 votes

All crit needs is for the randomness to be removed entirely. Then you can create more variety in crit builds. But while people have to buy a lot of crit to make sure theyre reliably (somewhat reliably anyway) getting the damage they bought, it will always result in 3+ crit items.

TekkenPlayer1 votes

Gold usually determines the champion in this game. A fuck ton of gold, whoever has a shit ton of gold is able to play the way the champion is intended to be played by default. Those without it is more or less a cc bot or someone that runs it down and dies.

HàrrowR1 votes

See people think that they want crit changed into something else but all they really want is to completely nerf the living shit out of these items, i've seen people argue that crits should do 150% damage and IE should raise it to 175% or some stupid propositions like that, as if carries wouldn't switch to on-hit and lethality, which brings me to my next point.

People think they want crit changed but they don't When ADCs could build item 3053 people bitched and moaned so they changed it to melee only, nevermind that this actually meant that the ADC dealt less damage overall and that there was less damage in the game overall, you know, like the boards always say they want. When ADCs could build item 3071 people bitched again, when guinsoo is meta, guess what, people bitch again, when lethality ADCs were/are meta people cry that ADCs are abusing assassin items and that they are too bursty, now imagine DOTA item system in league, people's heads would literally explode.

Most of the core carry items in dota give you Agility, which gives Damage,AS and Armor,yes, carries aren't squishy in dota, not even close, they have items that give them % dodge chance, they have items that make multiple copies of you that all deal damage, they have items that make you immune to magic damage and CC, they have items that give you 200% lifesteal for a duration etc. And the best part is there's no need to build 3 crit items first like in League, you can stack all of these items and work just fine. As you can imagine i prefer the Dota item system but just love league more for some reason, they are not the same games.

The thing is the closest alternative to crit is on-hit and trust me all of you would hate it, item 3006 item 3153 item 3124 item 3091 item 3026 item 3156 because ADCs would become bruiser drain tanks while still dishing out a lot of damage from range.

If it were up to me i'd ditch the crit but its for selfish reasons only, i'd much rather have item 3153 item 3071 item 3124 as your standard core build where at 3 items you have lifesteal, ms, armorpen, magic pen, as, slow from botrk, %hp dmg etc. instead of the crit build where at 3 items youre squishy AF and don't have any utility except some MS from zeal items

Bârd1 votes

Crit should exist, and IE's 2.25 multiplier is fine. I don't think you should be able to increase your chance to crit at 2.25, though.

The problem isn't just Crit, though.

There's also the lack of situational items for ADC's, and the lack of meaningful differences between the ones that do exist.

For example... there's no reason why both item 3080 and item 3812 should exist, since both of them fill the exact same goddamn niche.

Then there's item 3115 and item 3091 which are both just "on-hit magic damage". Literally the only reason they're two seperate items is that Riot couldn't allow Malady to exist.

There are exactly three legit situational items for marksmen.

item 3026 item 3156 item 3139

MAYBE item 3033, or which of the item 3086 upgrades if you want if you're being real generous.

Everything else is just either "A good item for your champ that you want to buy" or... not that.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

People complained about steraks gage because it was TOO good on marksmen, then riot gutted the item so next to nobody bought it, then they made it melee only. It's something that's happened with several items over the seasons, though it's usually because of ezreal's Q abuse, but not always as black cleaver was stupid good on kalista & lucian. Thing is about draintanking marksmen, it's something that's been going on for years, especially since the mastery rune merger granting multiple sources of free lifesteal; problem is lifesteal scales with critical strikes already and with rageblade. Lethality was a mistake waiting to happen, it's still flat armor penetration but now it scales on level and still stacks, but the removal of runes cut armor across the board amplifying how effective it is for physical damage dealers, which by and large marksmen are. There should be some other design direction taken with criticals, damage winding up the longer they attack a single target sounds like a good idea, but the other classes need trimmed back depending on how long this is.

Sylaelque1 votes

Thats why I play Kaisa maybe she is the only ADC doesn't require crit items besides Ezreal and both champions have amazing pick rate compare to other adc champions.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I agree with your stated problem, but not necessarily the solution. I think there are more elegant ways to address the problem; it's the ridiculously exponential scaling on target agnostic damage that is the problem. It is burst damage. And that means late game marksmen easily outclass literally everything else in the game, including burst mages.

It's fine for burst damage to fall off. Mid-game can be the mage's playground. But I'm not super ok with crit replacing it and still dealing with obscene burst damage in the late game. It's just a bit much.

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