@Riot: Ekko's waveclear needs some attention.

Raxistaicho·Jun 12, 2017·27 votes·1,829 views

It's way too good.

Timewinder is fine against champions since they'll actually dodge it, but thanks to its high total base damage, high total scaling, low cd, and low mana cost, it eats minions alive, allowing him to completely bypass interacting with enemy laners in favor of just shoving them relentlessly under their turret.

Ekko's generally too safe for the amount of impact he can have, but since Ekko's otherwise fine, that doesn't really need to be addressed.

45 Comments

sit kidJun 12, 20175 votes

Syndra Viktor Xerath Taliyah Ahri Orianna

DJMason88Jun 12, 20178 votes

Syndra and Viktor's waveclear is terrible until you get AP. Taliyah has to postition her self very carefully for her waveclear to work the best, unless you're talking about her rock field which is a lot of mana. Orianna's qw combo is a lot of mana and may mess up ball placement as well as being in a small AoE. Ahri's q has a pretty high cd and her main damage. And Xer + everyone else except Ahri has no mobility (Taliyah doesn't really count).

sit kidJun 12, 20172 votes

Syndra oneshots casters at level 5

Viktor just need level 6 and 1250g to oneshot waves as well

Taliyah can just shove with QE at pretty much every stage at the game and roam

Orianna QW isnt really that hard though. Minions are stationary...

Ahri's Q is definetely best in the mid game due to it's low AP ratio and true damage not affecting minions. That said it still oneshots waves some time in the game.

They're all ranged, meaning they can just push waves with pretty much no risk due to their long ranged abilities. An assassin like Ekko having waveclear is justified. He doesn't have the same burst and free mobility as a Zed has.

DJMason88Jun 12, 20176 votes

Syndra does not one shot casters at level 5, it has 140 base damage if you're maxing it at level 5, you would need about 150 more from the scaling to one shot even the first wave of casters. You proved my point with viktor. Orianna QW and Taliyah QE cost 1/3 of their mana.

Bots Whilst HighJun 12, 20179 votes

Newsflash, Ekko doesn't one shot waves until after first back either, just like all of these people you've mentioned.

CatastropJun 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Syndra oneshots casters at level 5

I didn't know my Q+W was a "oneshot. " Even then it'd just the casters, I still need to auto the melee creeps unless I want waste E on them.

Viktor just need level 6 and 1250g to oneshot waves as well

Wow, levels and 1250g to full clear, how unfair.

Taliyah can just shove with QE at pretty much every stage at the game and roam

Literal trash either way.

Orianna QW isnt really that hard though. Minions are stationary...

Can't argue tbh, ball handler is annoying.

Ahri's Q is definetely best in the mid game due to it's low AP ratio and true damage not affecting minions. That said it still oneshots waves some time in the game.

Don't have much of an opinion here.

NineTailedMysticJun 13, 20173 votes

Ahri's Q is definetely best in the mid game due to it's low AP ratio and true damage not affecting minions. That said it still oneshots waves some time in the game.

Level 9 and about 100 AP.

sit kidJun 13, 20171 votes

Yep, that's what I meant. Couldn't just remember excact level

five oh tree Jun 12, 20172 votes

Syndra and Viktor's waveclear is terrible until you get AP.

You need to purchase early heavy ap on ekko to actually wave clear and not leave the minions at 10-30 health and lose them all. Blasting wand by level 7, blasting wand and 2 dorans or a full ROA by level 8/9.

Taliyah has to postition her self very carefully for her waveclear to work the best

Ekko literally has to do the same exact thing

Orianna's qw combo is a lot of mana and may mess up ball placement as well as being in a small AoE

Her combo may cost more mana, but it's far harder to mess up than ekko's ball if you actually try to stop him.

Ahri's q has a pretty high cd and her main damage.

7s cooldown all game is high? lol? and main damage? is ekko's q not his main damage?

And Xer + everyone else except Ahri has no mobility (Taliyah doesn't really count).

Irrelevant

WindogesJun 13, 20171 votes

ekko doesnt have to do the same thing as taliyah. he doesnt have areas that he cant cast his full q on

all you do is q and run back in a somewhat straight line with ekko. with orianna you have a risk of bad ball positioning

it is actually relevant because waveclearing and staying in lane makes you more vulnerable for ganks from your jungle

five oh tree Jun 13, 20172 votes

You have to auto the minions as ekko, especially early game or if behind on gold. You also put yourself in a place where you have to stand and they can aim their skillshots at that place. Way worse than ori.

MelledoneusJun 13, 20171 votes

Did someone say...

Malzahar WAVECLEAR?!? Ekko No god pls no- Starts vomiting nightmares in Ekko's face

PePsiLemoNNJun 13, 20172 votes

Syndra and Viktor's waveclear is terrible until you get AP

Ok let's pretend Ekko oneshots waves before first back

CrabPeopleReformJun 12, 20173 votes

xer Xerath

RaxistaichoJun 12, 201712 votes

Xerath isn't even remotely as safe as Ekko.

CrabPeopleReformJun 12, 20172 votes

be he can harras you even under your turret which i don't find this an healthy thing since always

RaxistaichoJun 12, 201713 votes

After level 6 Ekko can all-in you under tower with absolute impunity. I'd rather take Xerath who's every ability is a skillshot.

Asayake 5150glowJun 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

After level 6 Ekko can all-in you under tower with absolute impunity. I'd rather take Xerath who's every ability is a skillshot.

Honestly his W should not give him a hugeass shield if he doesn't hit anyone with the stun, 150% AP scaling I mean really? If he hits no one with the stun, it means he fucked up his W... give him a small shield (after all, it is a compensation prize) if he gets no stun, like half the base and 75% AP, and the current shield if he stuns someone (a champion, that is).

ChaosThiefJun 12, 20171 votes

Considering they intended him to build full squishy assassin, the scaling is fine. Personally I wish they would rework his W, landing a stun on a semi decent enemy is near impossible.

PureSilvrrJun 12, 20171 votes

The w is fine, but if his kit is ever changed the w active is the first to go. If they ever do change it I would like it to have some synergy with ult, or fit in with his lore ex. Speeds up clone speed and gives ekko a defensive steroid Ekko and clone switch place letting him r back to where he was origionally(really stupid but ez ults so why not) Or something like "ekko messes with his z drive, altering the effect of chronoshift( more healing, more damage, bigger aoe, stun?)

ChaosThiefJun 12, 20171 votes

Honestly I would love to have a new W. The current one is nice and all but it's a bit unreliable.

Asayake 5150glowJun 12, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Considering they intended him to build full squishy assassin, the scaling is fine. Personally I wish they would rework his W, landing a stun on a semi decent enemy is near impossible.

The shield without stunning anyone is a consolation prize - its like how Diana only gets half her shield if she doesn't hit anyone with them. Ekko getting his full shield is like Diana getting her full shield without having to proc orbs.

ForgiveColourJun 12, 20173 votes

I see nothing wrong when mages could do it better

DJMason88Jun 12, 20172 votes

Copy and pasted from my other reply.

ForgiveColourJun 12, 20178 votes

Syndra and viktor wavelcear is terrible? LUL WTF i play viktor myself. Do you even play them. Taliyah still one shots casters orianna doesnt run out of mana after 1st back. Actually all mages you listed dont run out of mana after 1st back. Syndra can clear melee in 2 q

RaxistaichoJun 12, 20171 votes

I agree with most of your points, but Syndra and Viktor do NOT have terrible waveclear.

Viktor pays for it in other regards, Syndra's just broken.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 13, 20171 votes

you should start playing GP midlane and then you will see how good viktor, syndra, ahri, ori waveclear actually is compared to other champs. They also don't run out of mana ever after lost chapter or even an early double doran.

AirKingNeoJun 13, 20173 votes

Timewinder's base damage kinda sucks until you have at least 3 points or so into it.

korg023Jun 13, 20173 votes

He is melee champion,he needs some sort of clearing waves just look at Diana Q and other melee champions. You cant really expect him to be forced to melee range minion backline and get demolished by every ranged ap mage on mid lane where he is supposed to go. Also his Q cant clear waves untill he gets first 1 or 2 items which is okay since in early game he has to take risk if he wants to farm.

aqours fanboyJun 12, 20172 votes

Very much agree.

As a main myself I find I'm very rarely pressured into doing anything in laning phase.

I'd be cool with his Q doing half damage across the board to minions, and full damage to champions, that way if you are getting beat you are actually getting the fuck beat.

RaxistaichoJun 12, 20172 votes

A 285-game Ekko main is agreeing with me, can that just be /thread right there?

PureSilvrrJun 12, 20171 votes

How do you count the games?

RaxistaichoJun 12, 20171 votes

Checked his op.gg. For a minute I thought he was just saying he's an Ekko main to give himself false credence, but he wasn't kidding.

aqours fanboyJun 13, 20171 votes

i looked at the amount of ekko games i played and i told myself to use other champs xD

KoKobotoJun 13, 20172 votes

I've been saying this for awhile. He's way too safe for an assassin.

Linna ExcelJun 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I've been saying this for awhile. He's way too safe for an assassin.

I thought he was a tank.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 13, 20171 votes

the funny part is, if played well he is pretty much unkillable in laning phase with TP. You have a small window of 6 levels to actually kill him after that he instaclears waves and comes back with ult or tp to lane applying insane pressure for an assassin.

EuthenaasiaJun 13, 20172 votes

Agreed. Ekko can just afk farm and roam lanes too easily. Played against a really good Ekko the other day that managed to even counter my jungle due to me playing Vladimir who is very weak early game.

Lady HammerlockJun 13, 20172 votes

Instead of reducing Q damage, a simple change can be made

Time winder only does x% of damage to minions

The value of x should be something like 75% or 60%, that should fix it, kinda

korg023Jun 13, 20171 votes

He has enough text on his abilities already just stop with adding some more mechanincs and making everything complicated when it doesent have to be ,thankfully you are not in Riot balance team or i would just quit game if you were.

MarshbouyJun 13, 20171 votes

Alright but what are you buffing in compensation?

SpookyNeedleJun 13, 20171 votes

It's still easier to siege vs Ekko than it is Anivia. Might as well go to a different lane when against her

Tobias BracknerJun 13, 20171 votes

That move costs mana. You can keep the wave around the middle to drain him of mana then spank him.

PePsiLemoNNJun 13, 20171 votes

How DARES a melee midlaner have some form of waveclear right?

FawkseaJun 13, 20171 votes

Please don't nerf more of ekko, he's in a good spot and the double dorans cheese will fix his waveclear "bullshit" if you even call it that, xerath and vel'koz can just clear without a care in the world "if vel maxes W", not to mention viktor and morgana. see the thing here? all of these are ranged people, ekko is a melee, kill his waveclear and he's completely unplayable early cus he wont get the farm he nees