Bard was originally meant to be a music based champion; his theme shifted quite a bit between his early phases and his official announcement. This makes me wonder about what we could have ended up with.
What were some of the abilities that Bard had in development that got scrapped?
RiotMeddler22 votesBard went through a lot of different abilities before we hit on his final kit, including at one point getting briefly iceboxed until we took another run at his gameplay. Some abilities off the top of the head with musical/sounds elements to them we tried:
Tobastion2 votesBard went through a lot of different abilities before we hit on his final kit, including at one point getting briefly iceboxed until we took another run at his gameplay. Some abilities off the top of the head with musical/sounds elements to them we tried:
- A three charge single target skillshot that applied a stun on the final shot if you fired all 3 shots to a beat that was playing. Was a lot of fun to mess around with against bots/minions, but felt really restrictive in actual PVP unfortunately,
- A DDR/Guitar hero style ult, matching visual effects to a beat. Same problem as above - sounded cool, but didn't actually work out well in game. I do wonder if there might be a more subtle version of this sort of ability that might work though.
- A passive that dropped a lay waste style effect under targets Bard hit with an auto attack, with the effect detonating after a certain number of beats. This one showed promise, wouldn't surprise me if some variant on it eventually ends up on a kit.
- A giant wave of slow moving sound that gradually moved across the map, silencing enemies while they remained within it (had a thickness of around 1200 units, moved at something like 600 units. Looked awesome, but felt really random given how far in advance you had to cast it, which isn't good gameplay for a silence which is a pretty reactive effect. Slow moving wave from one side of the map to the other's still got some promise though, can imagine us revisiting that as well someday with a different effect on it on a different champ.
I would play that version of Bard more than the current Bard. I really hope these are eventually used for a new champ.
RiotMeddler5 votesHopefully we'll find homes for some versions of some of those abilities at some point. They generally sound better on paper than in game though, at least in those forms (hence we tried them and then moved on).
Ephemerion1 votesI don't know why, but hearing about this kind of abilities made me think of something like an hybrid between a mark system and TF W. You'd put a mark on an enemy and depending on either rhythm, timing or something else (like using your abilities in a said order, etc), detonate it in some way with different effects. I guess that would be a bit restrictive and probably have the same problems as you mentioned for rhythm based abilities though. Anyway, I really enjoy Bard the way he is (though he could benefit from some love specific to the howling abyss), keep the good work :).
Mighty Lychee1 voteswell thank u at least for getting something down, its just the lores that r screwing u over with the community
Squidkidd1 votesIt'd be interesting if we could see some of Bards concept skill animations such as the animation for the wave of silence (which I assume is his ultimate) hit Sona for her ultimate, or maybe on for one of her future skins, seeing as Bard was conceptually going to be a Champion that was music based, and Sona is music based (mainly sound based, I guess).
It'd be really neat, seeing as they're both my favorite champs :)
Birefringence2 votesMeddler please for the love of God consider applying a few of those ideas to Sona! :O Perhaps then she wouldn't have to be nerfed to avoid being oppressive?
Celestial Gait2 votesA giant wave of slow moving sound that gradually moved across the map, silencing enemies while they remained within it (had a thickness of around 1200 units, moved at something like 600 units. Looked awesome, but felt really random given how far in advance you had to cast it, which isn't good gameplay for a silence which is a pretty reactive effect. Slow moving wave from one side of the map to the other's still got some promise though, can imagine us revisiting that as well someday with a different effect on it on a different champ.
Have you considered doing this on Nami somewhat situational with her ult in the river possibly?
RiotMeddler7 votesReally different ability. This spell took about 5 seconds to reach the average team fight (it came from your team's nexus, theory we had being that Bard was making the Nexus crystal resonate to emit a powerful tone).
JnFnRu1 votesMaybe this is the best time to make Nami's Ult global?!
WarlordTim1 votesSounds neat, but impractical
LBurrk1 votesCouldn't something similar to this work for the Taric rework? I mean he is the Gem Knight, who uses crystals, and there are crystals all over SR in the form of inhibs, turrets, and the nexxus itself.
Sailor Mint4 votesCompletely off topic, but talking mixing music into MOBA gameplay compels me to ask.
Have you played Crypt of the Necrodancer? It was a pretty cool marriage of two unlikely genres, rhythm based game + roguelike.
RiotMeddler4 votesI have! Really enjoyed it, to my slight surprise (I'm only a moderate fan of rhythm games and love some rogue likes/have no patience for others).
Also had the music stuck in my head for days after playing it a bunch, was a really solid soundtrack.
Thales3 votesOh, cool, Meddler's answering Bard questions! Well, a Bard question. On the off chance that he'll field multiple...
Really great job making this champion. I've had so much fun playing Bard; he's such a flexible and powerful champion. The aesthetic is stellar too. Thanks!
RiotMeddler6 votesI'm personally really happy with Bard overall, the overall personality his kit/appearance/sounds conveys especially. I do worry somewhat about how his kit can be misleading for newer players to him though in terms of when to collect chimes, when and who to ult, when to E (and when to definitely not E). That does mean that as you describe there's some risk of him ending up too strong at the top end. Given he's performing weaker post preseason changes than before however I think we should be ok in that regard with the small buff in 6.1 which is much more an occasional useability thing than a significant power boost.
In terms of feeling impactful Bard's power comes in really discreet, obvious ways mainly (XP from chimes being the biggest exception). His high moments, the ult and E especially, are also extremely high, so even if he's not necessarily contributing that much overall when he does get something right it can feel like he's deciding teamfights.
ItemsGuy1 votesSpeaking about misleading kits and how personality is conveyed, how well do you think Bard performs in his role as League's resident Wandering Caretaker in-game?
While he's easily one of my favorite champions, I was never particularly successful with him--I always thought it was because I was getting chimes at the wrong time or not roaming to mid enough to drop a shrine or two for them, but as it turns out, success with Bard requires a...surprising amount of aggression, to say the least (and not really all that much wandering). Stuff like throwing an attack the enemy's way every now and then is actually fine as far as character goes--aside from limiting aggression, is also succeeds in conveying Bard as a generally peaceful dude, since in the context of that passive alone, he's only a threat when his Meeps are around to intervene.
Everything else about Bard, however, makes him seem more like a Wandering Playmaker than anything. All of the successful plays I've seen with him (particularly in the pro scene) involve huge ganks with Magical Journey, set-ups for double kills with aggressive use of his Q, and his shrines are almost exclusively used as a way to help an ally get in a position to finish a kill. Looking at every guide, it's always max Q first, build some offensive AP items, max W last, look for ganks, etc. (even Rioters on the board suggest offensive burst damage Masteries rather than anything that could be used to aid allies); so while I looked at his kit at launch and thought "ah, I should max W and E so I can roam around the map and make sure everyone is having a good time," that was ultimately the cause of me "using him wrong."
I kind of wish his kit was more about what it says on Bard's tin, although I'll still play him the way I want regardless and have fun with him win or lose. When I'm Bard, no amount of kills or assists can top the warmth and gratitude I get when I trek all the way into mid or our jungle and help one of my allies get back on their feet.
Pepperkat1 votesBard went through a lot of different abilities before we hit on his final kit, including at one point getting briefly iceboxed until we took another run at his gameplay. Some abilities off the top of the head with musical/sounds elements to them we tried:
- A three charge single target skillshot that applied a stun on the final shot if you fired all 3 shots to a beat that was playing. Was a lot of fun to mess around with against bots/minions, but felt really restrictive in actual PVP unfortunately,
- A DDR/Guitar hero style ult, matching visual effects to a beat. Same problem as above - sounded cool, but didn't actually work out well in game. I do wonder if there might be a more subtle version of this sort of ability that might work though.
- A passive that dropped a lay waste style effect under targets Bard hit with an auto attack, with the effect detonating after a certain number of beats. This one showed promise, wouldn't surprise me if some variant on it eventually ends up on a kit.
- A giant wave of slow moving sound that gradually moved across the map, silencing enemies while they remained within it (had a thickness of around 1200 units, moved at something like 600 units. Looked awesome, but felt really random given how far in advance you had to cast it, which isn't good gameplay for a silence which is a pretty reactive effect. Slow moving wave from one side of the map to the other's still got some promise though, can imagine us revisiting that as well someday with a different effect on it on a different champ.
So Bard had an ability like Nami ult but with a Silence? Yeesh.
Poluact1 votesHey, I like that global silence ult. Did you consider making it like a ring expanding from Bard across the map?
Snow Day Bard1 votes
- A giant wave of slow moving sound that gradually moved across the map, silencing enemies while they remained within it (had a thickness of around 1200 units, moved at something like 600 units. Looked awesome, but felt really random given how far in advance you had to cast it, which isn't good gameplay for a silence which is a pretty reactive effect. Slow moving wave from one side of the map to the other's still got some promise though, can imagine us revisiting that as well someday with a different effect on it on a different champ.
Bard's ult should emit a silence wave if he doesn't hit anyone c;
Mormon Son1 votesAny chance of Bard having the QOL change in the future of having his Q indicator indicate both pre and post first target hits. The guesstimation on that is sometimes frustrating.
Foucz1 votesWhile you are here meddler i was wondering why some abilities like bard ult will take a lot of time to hit if you fire it far away but some like nami bubble will always take the same time. If you guys would ever want to make bard a bit more consistent to play i think his ult should always have the same delay (sometimes im really shocked by how long it takes to land it if i throw it far).
Thales1 votesIt would be pretty unbalanceable if it worked that way. Bard getting to stun people for 2.5 seconds from half the map away is really, really strong. It's balanced by the fact that a max-range R takes a long time to land, and the target can easily evade it. Any fixed delay would have to be long enough that Bard can't decide mid lane without having to really leave bot lane. The downside of that is that his very short range ults would then have to have the same long delay, making it way less useful for his own lane, and eliminating all the cool plays made possible by the fairly quick travel time on short range ults.
This would have broader implications as well. Since Bard would no longer gain much selfish power at level 6 as he does on live, he'd end up with a very strange power curve, with his midgame dip getting even worse, and being entirely reliant on having a good mid laner to be functional. To make the change roughly power neutral, you'd have to buff some other part of his kit, and who knows what effects that would have.
