Boards›Gameplay

How Urgot could save Zilean jr.

Mohrb·3/3/2015, 3:17:11 AM·10 votes·1,168 views

1- the new slow mechanic is a failure. Half the duration for double the effectivity sounds fair, but with soft caps, people are getting 60-68% at rank 5, which is less than what's promised from rank 3's 70%. But, that's not what we're here for.

2- those dam bombs. Zilean is truly a 1 trick pony... unlike Nidalee, Jayce, and Elise who have 6 usable skills, most champions who have 4 usable skills, and a few who have 3 usable skills and a passive.... Zilean really has 2. He can bomb or ult. His slow only lasts long enough to try to make his 2nd bomb easier to hit... and with rewind not affecting his ult, it's literally JUST for that second bomb. But, with buggy code, the first bomb may attach itself to a creep.... no worries, just soublebomb the creep and stun anyway? Nope, 2nd bomb finds a hero or randomly picks a different creep... now you're out of tools until your next doublebomb.

But, Urgot has the answer: Urgot fires an Acid Hunter missile that collides with the first enemy it hits, slowing the target if he has his Terror Capacitor up. Acid Hunter missile-locks on enemies affected by Noxian Corrosive Charge.

There's already a function for allowing "missile lock." The nerf happened because people didn't like Zilean harassing so easily, so make the FIRST bomb a skill shot, but while a bomb is active, other bombs can misile lock to become reliable.

This is a step in the right direction. (His passive has always needed a change, his ult didn't need a nerf, and change the friggin slow back, or take it out. A 2 second 68% slow is worthless.)

6 Comments

Mohrb3/3/2015, 3:34:55 AM3 votes

Also, compare Zilean's new kit to nami. Not too popular for a support, but she can 1.5 second stun in 1 similar skill shot at level 1. Zilean's takes 2 skill shots, 1 extra skill required, and currently a 2nd extra skill if you want to have a chance, and still only starts at 1.1 second! The stun is only equal to nami's level 1 when time bomb is at max rank.

Nami can also speed boost allies... but does so WHILE helping them in other ways, like heals and buffs. At 200 AP, nami can heal people and put them at soft cap move speed... again no minimum level requirement. Take a 200 AP (still pretty early build) casting tidecaller's blessing. That's a 60% movespeed boost for the ally, a 45% slow for the enemy hit for a total of 3 seconds, on top of 375 total damage. Kind of beats the crap out of a 2.5 second 60% speed boost by itself OR a 68% slow with no damage for half a second less.

Mohrb3/3/2015, 9:59:32 AM3 votes

"if" he needs further buffs?

He was a mediocre character that was pretty far from popular when his passive was global, his ult lasted longer and was effected by rewind, his slow was of a significant duration, AND his bombs were reliable as a click ability should be.

So, take a mediocre character, nerf everything about him to the ground... and pretend it's all made up by the possibility of a 1.5 second stun? Annie's passive is free 1.75 second stuns. On a character that entirely outclasses Zilean, given equal farm. .... but he might be in a fine place with half her spells if his shorter duration stun were actually reliable?

Count Lieberkuhn3/3/2015, 1:22:24 PM3 votes

That sounds like an excellent idea.

I also think rewind is outdated as a skill overall. It should still be a core mechanic of Zilean's, but the fact it no longer affects his ultimate makes it a lower value skill now.

My proposal?

  1. Replace rewind entirely, but change his Q and E so that you can recast that skill within 2 seconds, but at a 50% increased mana cost (essentially replacing the mana cost of rewind).

  2. Add an extra effect to E if it is cast on the same target. For example, double casting an enemy would then immobilise them, and double-casting an ally could provide an additional attack speed buff.

  3. Replace rewind with a new skill. Not sure what, but it should be a skill which can be recast within a short timeframe, and has a bonus effect if used twice on the same target.

The idea being that Zilean gains additional identity not only as a time master, but this could translate more readily into a champion based around the double-cast mechanic. By allowing a cast to be done on the same target, you get the option for a bigger effect on that target, but it should not outclass the option for double casting on separate targets - just add meaningful choices.

For example, you may want to slow 2 chasing/escaping enemies, or plant bombs on 2 low-hp enemies escping in different directions. But if there's a fed hypercarry, you sure as hell want to immobilise them first with a double E, so that you can easily land that double Q for a stun. You'd use all your cooldowns and mana to do that, but it would be worth it.

Hawkefire3/3/2015, 6:11:16 AM2 votes

If this was implemented, then we would have some pretty big balance issues with the stun being there. That stun is actually quite powerful, and the damage is definitely noticeable if you build some AP.

I would rather see them do some bugfixes (namely on the Qs hit detection, and adding in that it prioritizes targets that already have a bomb on them over all others) and slightly buff the hitbox on it as well.

After those qol buffs go through then we can accurately assess whether or not Zil actually needs further buffs (such as the idea that you proposed).

Mohrb4/8/2015, 3:51:33 AM1 votes

Yep.