Zilean timewarp level 4+?

Mohrb··12 votes·1,113 views

One question I never got a good answer to about Zilean's last rework:

What's the point of the last two points in Timewarp? Level 3 timewarp (70%) will slow most champions to (or very near) the soft cap (110). level 4 will drop enemies to the soft cap, even if they had a 750 base speed... making level 5 completely redundant.

Are the last 2 levels of time warp solely for the extra few points as a buff?

9 Comments

Teridax686 votes

Technically, as you mentioned, you get to buff allies more and drop enemies close to the hard cap even if they're a Rammus mid-Powerball or a Hecarim with E + item 1304 + summoner 12, but you're right that there's no major difference between a 99% slow and a 90% slow in League right now, or even a 99% slow and a 70% slow.

I personally dislike the current number setup for movement speed modifiers, not just because it misinforms players (champions rarely end up getting slowed by the indicated amount, especially not with high-end slows) and leads to diminishing returns so serious that apparently massive increases in power produce little additional effect (a 99% slow should technically be ten times as powerful as a 90% slow), but also because the system of movement speed caps and inflated slow values is obsolete now that slows don't stack. It's possible to predict the impact of every slow and account for every edge case (e.g. the strongest slow possible on a champion with 325 movement speed), so by all rights Rito needs to do a pass on slows, remove the caps and deflate them so that they apply the actual slow value they're listing. As for upper movement speed caps, there are only a handful of champions who might potentially abuse super-high movespeed numbers (Hecarim and Rammus, mainly, and potentially Master Yi), so imo it would likely make sense to remove those caps and similarly deflate all movement speed boosts to have them correspond better to their indicated values.

Chuck Charles1 votes

{quoted}

Technically, as you mentioned, you get to buff allies more and drop enemies close to the hard cap even if they're a Rammus mid-Powerball or a Hecarim with E + item 1304 + summoner 12, but you're right that there's no major difference between a 99% slow and a 90% slow in League right now, or even a 99% slow and a 70% slow.

I personally dislike the current number setup for movement speed modifiers, not just because it misinforms players (champions rarely end up getting slowed by the indicated amount, especially not with high-end slows) and leads to diminishing returns so serious that apparently massive increases in power produce little additional effect (a 99% slow should technically be ten times as powerful as a 90% slow), but also because the system of movement speed caps and inflated slow values is obsolete now that slows don't stack. It's possible to predict the impact of every slow and account for every edge case (e.g. the strongest slow possible on a champion with 325 movement speed), so by all rights Rito needs to do a pass on slows, remove the caps and deflate them so that they apply the actual slow value they're listing. As for upper movement speed caps, there are only a handful of champions who might potentially abuse super-high movespeed numbers (Hecarim and Rammus, mainly, and potentially Master Yi), so imo it would likely make sense to remove those caps and similarly deflate all movement speed boosts to have them correspond better to their indicated values.

Just want to say that 99% is not ten times 90%. It should be a 10% stronger slow.

And to answer op question I could be wrong but it also lowers cool down of time warp when being ranked up. Which with all of his abilities at max rank and rewind you can perms speed yourself up with less than a second in between casts

Teridax681 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chuck Charles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZnO3TyBM,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-06T22:11:37.842+0000)

Just want to say that 99% is not ten times 90%. It should be a 10% stronger slow.

And to answer op question I could be wrong but it also lowers cool down of time warp when being ranked up. Which with all of his abilities at max rank and rewind you can perms speed yourself up with less than a second in between casts

Time Warp's cooldown is 15 at all ranks, so ranking it up does not increase its uptime. Also, a 90% slow should technically bring you down to 10% movement speed, whereas a 99% slow would bring you down to 1% movement speed, hence why a 99% slow would be ten times as powerful as a 90% slow if there were no caps (though you wouldn't want a 99% slow without caps either, as you'd be practically rooted).

Stiv12344 votes

Agreed, except that 220 is the soft cap (110 is hard cap).

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

well maybe it doesnt have a huge impact on enemies but it surely must buff allies further

Stiv12341 votes

MS buffs also get reduced if stacked a lot.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

even so, its still more.

Mathbalnase1 votes

From the wiki

When the raw movement speed is less than 220 another soft cap is used: If the raw speed is below 220, it gets multiplied by 50% and added to 110.

So at level 3, 750MS becomes 225, just shy of the soft cap at level 4, 750MS becomes ~166 At level 5, it becomes ~114

Mohrb1 votes

Thing is... it's 2.5 seconds every 15 seconds. Even if 99% was actually 99%... it would essentially be a root. What's the effective CD of Ryze's root? (Also clickable, but able to do a bunch of damage). Zyra's is only 1.75 and a skill shot... but AoE and also does a ton of damage. Just plain removing the buff/nerf caps wouldn't be overpowered.

(Biggest thing that bugs me is when they announced the change, they went through so much effort to say "99% at max rank! That's right, 99%!"

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