Just look at it.
It would be nice if it gave a small movement speed buff for a longer duration instead of a massive MS buff for 2 seconds. Or if it gave a permanent mediocre MS buff when moving towards enemy champions.
In it's current state it is really really useless.
It is not even a ganking tool since it only lasts 2 seconds.
Okay, perhaps it could work on Jinx jungle, but honestly, if you are taking Jinx to the jungle you might aswell take something else.
Junkο8 votesPoacher Knife will always be useless, no matter how many buffs it gets. Why?
BECAUSE IT GIVES AWAY YOU ARE COUNTERJUNGLING.
No really buying it is just asking for the enemy team to ward the jungle with their trinkets and ambush you everytime you are spotted.
Cozarkian13 votesChallenge Accepted:
UNIQUE - Upgrades smite to Scavenging Smite. If Scavenging Smite is used on conjunction with killing a large monster in the enemy's jungle, the cooldown is reduced by 30 seconds. Scavenging smite may be cast on yourself to remove slows and provide a 150% MS boost for 1 second. If you take damage during this time, the MS boost is extended for 1 second up to 4 seconds total.
UNIQUE - Scavenger - Killing large monsters in the enemy jungle provides 10 bonus gold. UNIQUE - Jungler - Same as current.
Ta da! Poacher's knife still advertises your strategy but can now be used to help you escape when you get caught, not just when you successfully kill a monster. It's also a god-send for champions that are kitable, even if they aren't counterjungling.
AbodyHUN6661 votesFirst I thought free wards like flare would be enough but your changes look quite useful.
Tis a nice day1 votesThis is actually a really neat idea. Udyr players would love this.
LordKentravyon1 votesYou miss out on several things, If your a champion that's dependent on the sustain fro trailblazer or one of the champion smites its not for you
but if your someone who can get by without those and your against someone very susceptible to counter jungleing it can be nice
I've had great success punishing Eve with it since she struggles in the new jung (I was vi) take her camps get bonus gold use the speed buff to get out and gank a lane
worked nicely for taking kruggs -> bot lane gank from tri (playing as red side of course)
junglerboy161 votesHow does physically counterjungling not give it away as much as just buying the item? If I get counterjungled, I can tell immediately from looking at who they are playing and if the LARGE MONSTER IS GONE FROM THE CAMP. If you consider Poacher's knife as giving away your strategy, then so is trailblazer that you are focusing on clear, or Stalker that you are focusing on ganks, or Skirmisher that you are saying "FIGHT ME" to the enemy jungler. Your point is moot for the same reason that saying taking machete gives away that you are jungling, and thus shouldn't be taken for strategic reasons. Any real jungled will always counter jungle at various points during a match (and I mean any, tanks, fighters, assassins, fed, behind, ANY junglier will always counter jungle at least once or twice if playing even halfway decently). Taking Poacher does say that that will be your main focus, and people will react accordingly to it, but you should be able to react just as appropriately to them as they do to you (even more so considering the benefits that the smite gives you).
Junkο1 votesBecause Poacher is purely a counter jungling item, you get nothing if you don't counter jungle. You can still gank with Trailblazer or Skrimisher without feeling you are losing anything, or farm with Stalker.
Physically counter jungling doesn't give it away because maybe he just took a camp once or twice because he is going to wait bottom but it isn't in a good position to gank yet. Or he took blue/red because he knows that it normally spawns again at 7 min. Poacher means you are going to counterjungle all the time, that you are gonna take unrewarding risks all the time instead of ganking lanes or farming in safety of your jungler.
junglerboy161 votesSo your argument is built on your opinion that hard counterjungling is an unrewarding risk that does not benefit anyone more than "standard jungling". Counterjungling is essentially proxy farming the enemy jungle. It is SUPPOSED to draw attention from the enemy jungler, thus making them less effective at their other tasks as jungler. If you play proxy Singed, everyone knows you are doing it, and they can react in various ways (hunt you down and waste their time, deal with the constant minion pressure, or team fight and take objectives while you are gone). When you are counterjungling, you WANT them to notice you, if they cannot notice that you are making their life carp, then you aren't counterjungling right. I do agree though that currently, Poacher's knife is flawed in that it is very weak at multitasking (It is only good at counterjungling, while trailblazer is good at farming and counterjungling, stalker is good at ganking and counterjungling, and skirmisher is good at counterjungling as well as dueling or ganking), but counterjungling 24/7 should be equally as viable as any other play style, and having an item tailored to it doesn't negate its benefits.
LankPants3 votesUnique passive- appears in your inventory as a trailblazer until your enemy sees you use smite.
MattAkhavan1 votestheoretically, if you are farming and ganking at like a 80/20% ratio you'll probably be able to counter jungle very effectively vs a gank heavy jungler because he will always show on the map when ganking a lane. For example: enemy jungle shows bottom lane, you take raptors. Jungle shows top lane you take wolves. If poachers knife gave you a stat like lowers cd when smiting enemy jungle/ 40 extra gold / ghost for a little then it would be a pretty damn good pick up for reactive junglers.
Akeito2 votesNunu can't even use it, unless nunu actually max his Q.
Hawkefire2 votesIt needs some buffs on it, there is no reason to take it on the counterjungling champions, Trailblazer is the far better counterjungling option because of the reduced cooldown (although that is going away), and the AoE damage + stun. They should give poachers increased smite damage when used on creeps in the enemy jungle or something along those lines, so that it solidifies its role as a counterjungling item (however, the moment you buy it, the enemy instantly knows that you are going to be counterjungling the hell out of him, and that is generally the last thing you want the enemy to know).
AbodyHUN6661 votesThe problem is Warrior was designed for dueling the enemy jungler and killing him, Poacher feels more like stealing an enemy camp and running for your life with a heart attack.
Gray Fanchon1 votesMan, you're thinking about it all wrong. You run away laughing like a complete jerk. :D
Philliam2221 votesNo, no the MS is so you can chase the jungler down if you get them at their camp and they try to run. You smite and steal their red and when they run you catch them quicker.
junglerboy161 votesMoot point, If the enemy junglier has eyes in their head, they can see they have been counterjungled just by the fact that half the camp is dead. It may say that you intend to do more than before, but that can be a tool you use to your advantage to manipulate the enemy junglier into having to play reactively to you, which can sometimes be even worse for them than the actual counterjungling itself (like how picking Nunu forces your opponent to pick a different champ than they might have wanted so they can handle the counterjungling).
GundayMonday2 votesIt's nice, but not as nice as the other items. Too much risk, not enough reward. I can't think of a single champ I would use it on right now.
Tis a nice day1 votesIt needs some use outside of its intended purpose of counterjungling.
Tabs1 votesIt is not the best. or even second best option on anyone. Yes, even Shaco, and Udyr, and Lee Sin
o9y9pcvBhd1 votesit CAN work, but IMO it is WAY to situational
Done251 votesNah, atm Trail Blazer is a trillion times better.
Ryvaku1 votesI would consider it useless since the other 3 options are far better in comparison.
SouL1ess1 votesIMO it should have the gold bonus for any jungle, but the CD of smite is only halved when in the enemy jungle.
Dominick Destine1 votesNunu.
But no one else.
SmokingPuffin1 votes
Can't catch me! Urf Urf Urf
junglerboy161 votesIt is supposed to be for counterjunglers like But until the nerf to trailblazer comes out, it is actually inferior for counterjungling. The cool down reduction from smiting a camp in the enemy jungle needs to be increased to something more like 20-25 seconds, not just 15. It also needs to have a larger gold bonus for smite killing a large creep than it does now. If they did that, nd the trailblazer nerfs go through, then it would be worth buying on more champions. It may be decent on Rek'sai once she comes out, but trailblazer is still just as strong if not stronger right now for counterjungling.
JadeKnightblazer1 votesI say scrap the Poachers Jungle item and return the Wiggles ward as a smite powerup. There is no way an Item that "tells" the enemy team that you want to counter Jungle will work out as a stealthy gameplay. Bring back that handy ward from last season.
Poachers // Renamed to- "Pathfinder" Pathfinder: Illuminate Smite: Allows smite to be cast upon the ground or bushes to place a Stealth Ward.
The other 3 jungle items are fine.
not a starburst1 votesNo. It tells everyone you're counterjungling, so laners and jung just ambush you and kill you, then counterjungle you. I saw it twice, ever, and both times the jungler fell behind hard. Granted, one of them was clearly awful (Poacher's on Amumu against Warwick? Sorry mate, that doesn't work at all), but the other was good- it was just the item was exasperatingly useless. He was forced to smite prematurely just to avoid death countless times and therefore fell behind. He eventually just swapped it for Trailblazer.
Gray Fanchon1 votesI honestly think it'd benefit from the Conversion passive the Spirit line had in season 4. It builds up while you're doing other things, you go into the enemy jungle and swipe a camp or two and gain a nice shot of cash. Would fit the flow of counter-jungling a lot better than the current "little bit of extra gold" thing it has going on right now, I think. You don't really take enough camps for that to matter.
Oh, and what if smiting gave you a speed boost you could activate at-will? That would let you use it when it was most useful - goodness knows counter-jungling involves adaptation, and it would make the whole endeavor a lot safer.
SummonerSquid1 votesNo it's awful.
