i went back to playing ap kog but then in game i realized that the ap ratio on his e went down to 50 percent. wtf? why? ap kog was so much funner than ad kog. :(
was it op? can someone explain to me. cuz i spent alot of time trying to master ap kog
its just a shame that one of the funnest things for me to play was gutted for some reason
hhaavviikk19 votes2 reasons I can think of
Boop Daddy 5 votesBut, I mean. Synda can still one shot people with R despite missing all her skills, amirite?
Velzard of Koz7 votesNo. You'd have to be no-def item squishy writing your own death sentence and she'd need 4-5 orbs. Yes, her ability isn't the hardest to use, yes, it's relatively still very rewarding.
But you are very seriously (to my sadness) comparing: KOG_____|_____ SYN 1280 range|675/750 range 80-120cost|100cost 12 sec CD .|120-80 sec CD
Yes, Kog must aim his E. No, with the range, width and speed it's not really that counterable. The damage is not really that bigger to ignore all the aspects above.
NodirjonSattarov3 votesYou're comparing Kog'Maws E to Syndra R
Velzard of Koz1 votesOkay...
i realized that the ap ratio on his e went down to 50 percent. wtf? why?
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once he had some AP he would go to creep wave, use E to instantly kill all the minions and just go back to the tower
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But, I mean. Synda can still one shot people with R despite missing all her skills, amirite?
Heartless tries to excuse Kog's E's pre-nerf power by Syndra "one-shotting" people with R, ignoring what other aspects Kog's E is better at, so I just listed the aspects. What am I supposed to compare then, Taric's Z just for lolz?
NodirjonSattarov1 votesno, to compare correctly you need to explain the differences in how they clear the creep waves. Syndra can Q the back line and throw a ball into the front line to clear a wave. How much mana does that cost and what are her cooldowns for those 2 abilities?
honestly, kog'maw's e is probably one of the most expensive mana costing abilities in the game. 120 mana at rank 5 for 50% ap ratio is actually mental (this is disregarding the base dmg and %slow). if you're including the slow, its a 1.25 second slow unless you're walking on it like an idiot. MF has a better/reliable slow compared to kog'maw
Velzard of Koz1 votesOkay I am not sure If you have badly sorted boards (because there is the display mode which doesn't show you who responds to who, so that might've confused you) and don't see who I am responding to or you are just high (sry, just it's confusing).
I am not responding to OP's original complaint neither to Haavvik. I responded purely to this:
But, I mean. Synda can still one shot people with R despite missing all her skills, amirite?
By context, he tries to excuse both or either (unclear, he should've stated more clearly) Kog's original waveclear and/or nuke-poke of his E by Syndra's ult. He was the one brining it here and equating oneshoting champion to oneshoting wave, I just responded to that very thing. In case you have problem with these two being compared, feel absolutely free to tell that to Heartless, I agree with you on that, no need to explain that to me.
But when we have opened that: SYNDRA Q+W to waveclear (while she needs two levels per scale) 100 / 120 / 140 / 160 / 180 Mana 12 - 8 CD 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 +75%AP *she clears one with Q, other with W, worst case (highest damage) taken, not additive since she doesn't combine. **note she must do this when lane is already stacked and the enemy champion has window of opportunity to make it less safe for her, she does it from 800 range of backline in order to apply both.
KOG'MAW E to waveclear 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 Mana 12 CD 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 +50%AP (+100%AP before) *he clears reportedly entire unstacked wave on its way like this, getting less risk, from little less than 1280 range.
As for the second point. so MF's slow being more relevant is reason why those spells are comparable again? MF E 80 Mana 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 CD around 40 / 52 / 64 / 76 / 88 +40%AP per second twice up to around 80 / 104 / 128 / 152 / 176 +80%AP 1000 cast-range in area (already stacked wave), smaller chance to run away when centered.
Kog slows for 20 / 28 / 36 / 44 / 52% while MF for 28 / 36 / 44 / 52 / 60%. That's just 8% difference.
And that is excluding other aspects as power budget in other abilities.
deoje2991 votes
ItsOrval10 votesThat shit was cancer man. 2 artillery shots fucks you up lol.
SweedishGunner3 votesNot with the new way his ult works. AP Kog was fine but they still nerfed the AP ratio anyway. It's pretty bad now.
NodirjonSattarov1 votesThis is not true.
Borbland5 votesIt was strong but not OP. Kog'Maw was immobile and his projectiles are easy to dodge.
Riot just seems to force champs into one possible role and guts other possibilities. AP Kog was really hurt after the Marksman rework, and the rework revert only was for AD Kog, since they kept the weak AP ult.
Seenan1 votesIt was strong but not OP. Kog'Maw was immobile and his projectiles are easy to dodge.
Riot just seems to force champs into one possible role and guts other possibilities. AP Kog was really hurt after the Marksman rework, and the rework revert only was for AD Kog, since they kept the weak AP ult.
The fact that there's high AP ratios on champs that don't need really buy AP means that's not true.
3TWarrior5 voteswell, kog'maw's design still existed from the phase where riot cared about its game and player diversity
the original theme was that a champion could carry either by purely auto attacking, being tanky, purely by using abilities or by a mild combination of the two such as Talon(who was favorable at the time due to his strengths and AOE shred)
now we get these mobile monstrosities and overloaded kit that hardly resemble the game that got it all started
NodirjonSattarov3 votesmeddler played a game vs an AP Kog'Maw OTP and lost lane super hard. thus resulted in nerfs where he was effected by the most. the ever so powerful E
Teslyn2 votesKog started moving to the mid lane. Seems when they talk of diversity they dont mean Kog. back to AD BOT lane you go.
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesI guess cz it kepts nuking people's HP for a fast projectile ability.
MunchCrunchLunch3 votesI guess cz it kepts nuking people's HP for a fast projectile ability.
eh not really. few people played it. it sucks early game and it does no damage unless you land E. which is good damage but has high mana cost and long cd. ult was nerfed during kog revert tho. ap kog was mainly waveclear duty. I had no problems with it personally.
arcinex1 votesSame
Boop Daddy 1 votesThat and, his main damage was also his only form of escape. GL running when an ekko, zed, talon, fiora, wu, gragas......
Ariel the Cruel1 votesGL running when an ekko (Double-dash, slow, speed buff), zed (Shadow blink, ult) , talon (Dash, slow, parkour, ult), fiora (dash, slow) wu (Dash, ult speed buff), gragas (slow, dash+stun, ult) ......
I get your point. But that slow alone isn't going to stop any of your examples from killing him.
Boop Daddy 1 votes"That slow alone isn't going to stop any of your examples from killing him."
I don't think you did, actually.
Supreme Senpai691 votesI don't get why Kogmaw is AP if they don't want you to build AP. Is it because giving his abilities AD scaling would break him? Yet he still builds AD. Maybe that's a sign of a unhealthy champion
Hige1 votesHonestly, AP kog is still pretty good, not broken anymore which is good but you have comparable damage to other mages even though you're incredibly long ranged and your damage is incredibly reliable
Veraska1 votesThere was a time when it was highest winrate mid in the game, which would be fine if it wasn't supposed to be kog'maws off role, that was the justification at the time of the last nerf
Also riots been very open about artillery mages being some of most frustrating and toxic experiences to play against when strong, and ap kog is like the worst offender of this
3TWarrior1 votesthey were strong back before the range nerfs to everything. Most of the high-profile assassins and mobile champions can engage from less than half distance to the champion if flash is up
Blakiepug1 votes[{quoted}](name=BLLLK FLLG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3fWvm1Ex,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-03-11T10:50:47.998+0000)
There was a time when it was highest winrate mid in the game, which would be fine if it wasn't supposed to be kog'maws off role, that was the justification at the time of the last nerf
Also riots been very open about artillery mages being some of most frustrating and toxic experiences to play against when strong, and ap kog is like the worst offender of this
I mean Ziggs had highest ADC winrate for a while and he never got nerfed.
BioticBrony1 votesZiggs ain't an ADC.
BioticBrony1 votesHe's an APC, and plays exactly the same as Mid, the only similarity being that he takes down Towers. Ziggs doesn't supply reliable AD damage, can't lifesteal his way through a fight, and acts nothing like an ADC.
Blakiepug1 votesHe's an APC, and plays exactly the same as Mid, the only similarity being that he takes down Towers. Ziggs doesn't supply reliable AD damage, can't lifesteal his way through a fight, and acts nothing like an ADC.
I know, I only said ADC so that people knew I meant bot lane.
Thefrostyviking1 votesPeople started spamming AP kog and riot cut the damage because of his range.
You can have damage, range or quick spells or a mix between but never all of it. (Artillery mage)
Which means that AP kog was always destined to be gutted since a good portion of the competition was.
Boop Daddy 3 votesHis ult did shit damage and ramped up in cost. You only really have to worry about dying from it at ~10%. E was on a pretty decent cooldown and that was where most of his damage came from. Honestly? Nerfing ap kog was unjustified. Especially after the ad rework put him in a bad spot, and the revert didnt help his ult at all. I mean, why nerf him after rework anyway when he was fine prior?
Thefrostyviking1 votesHis ult did shit damage and ramped up in cost. You only really have to worry about dying from it at ~10%. E was on a pretty decent cooldown and that was where most of his damage came from. Honestly? Nerfing ap kog was unjustified. Especially after the ad rework put him in a bad spot, and the revert didnt help his ult at all. I mean, why nerf him after rework anyway when he was fine prior?
I didn't meant to imply that he was strong, rather he was good but he had one aspect that was kinda impossible to balance.
His mid/lategame.
Later stages of AP kog stays at a extreme range and makes it rain Acid for days, the only way of killing him is by flanking or very high movespeed, people with patience simply played him super safe and farmed before starting teamfights without ever really having interacted with the enemy team. He could push quite well early on by just maxing his W and stacking AP meaning you couldn't really do anything to kill a good kog.
But outright removing 20% of the AP scaling can't have been the right thing to do i think but evidently his kit is too flawed, at this point i can only hope for a full rework, preferably by either the people behind yorik or the ones behind galio. They seem kinda good at their jobs.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesIt still works, it just takes even longer to hit his full power than before.
Overlord Forte1 votesAP Kog suffers from problematic game design, namely in just doing everything Xerath does better without any of the downsides. They were quite specific in killing it before, though the revert allowed the design to come back somewhat.
normie sIayer1 votesbecause getting spam poked from an entire lane distance away was cancer
Ez dePaz1 votesAt least it's still playable, unlike Ad Malz which is completely gutted. Coming from a Ad Malz/Ap kog main.
Baron of Bread1 votesThey didn't like that he could have access to extreme waveclear without sacrificing his ability to rain death on his enemies. Most other champs had to spend more of their offensive potential to clear the wave, by which I mean they had to spend multiple cooldowns. The exceptions to this tend not to be long range artillery.
) but Kog can't go mid... :(