To everyone complaining about ADC

341123545652·Sep 18, 2017·127 votes·3,809 views

Instead, I got a better idea.

Lets officially start the Mages, Assassins, fighters, and skirmishers in 2017 LUL meme. That seemed to work out really good for marksman.

108 Comments

EedatSep 18, 201784 votes

makes a detailed post about issues with divers, skirmishers, and juggies. List out the changes that caused it and give some ideas on how to fix it

Downvoted

"Hey guys lets make a shitty meme"

Upvoted

This board is god awful

MarshbouySep 18, 201728 votes

Humor always goes over better with the crowds.

SkorchSep 18, 201714 votes

Still feel bad for the poor guy. I know that feel.

ChuShoeSep 18, 20172 votes

plz link post, I need to upvote the logical one too. Change starts with me, so I can make the change yaaay

Hungry CancerSep 18, 201718 votes

actually Change starts with C

Glory ln DeathSep 18, 20174 votes

So does Cancer. Therefore, Change = Cancer.

Boards logic

chipndip1Sep 18, 20177 votes

I'd say join the club...but you don't wanna join this club.

MarshbouySep 18, 201719 votes

NIDALEE IN 2K17 LUL

am i doing it right

341123545652Sep 18, 20174 votes

yes indeed u are :D

AbibyamaSep 18, 20175 votes

GRAVES IN 2K17 LUL

######even ezreal is seeing more play than him in the jungle

Bob the ToastrSep 18, 20173 votes

AMUMU IN 2K17 LUL

######seriously, when was the last time you saw him in a game?

VerxintSep 18, 20179 votes

Vi ults the ADC Dies to ADC before her ult even connects Divers in 2017 kek

am I doing it right?

WDG DevourSep 18, 20178 votes

The meme won't work tbh. ADC meme worked because it was a clear widespread problem that ADCs were weak. However, it is not clear that assasins have such a widespread problem, plenty of good players are assasinating and "one shotting" ADCs with ease, the only difference now is that good ADC players can stand a chance against assasins. You assasins, fighters etc need to stop crying you have plenty of champs with great kits designed to assasinate or fight not only marksmen but any role, keep practicing instead of being salty and complaining.

For a class that is supposed to deal sustained damage (adds) it's simply not right they can be assasinated 100% of the time without being able to do anything about it....

InfernapeSep 18, 201723 votes

Too bad ADCs now rush IE and Shiv and start dealing burst damage to everything that isn't a tank.

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 201710 votes

You sir, have an eye for the actual problem, rather than the rest that seem to think that marksmen just magically grow more powerful as time passes in league without doing anything or having any changes.

This entire mess started with static buffs and RFC changes and IE price reductions, it would end there if someone actually had the presence of mind to think about it.

Oh and Draven became an issue with deaths dance.

InfernapeSep 18, 20172 votes

You sir, have an eye for the actual problem, rather than the rest that seem to think that marksmen just magically grow more powerful as time passes in league without doing anything or having any changes.

I do play ADC a lot, and I've noticed that a lot of the changes Riot makes in general benefit ADCs either directly or indirectly. I'd say they're the most pampered class in the game.

Hell, they're the only role in the game that is essential. Top and jungle rotates between tanks, fighters and mages, mid rotates between mages and assassins, support rotates between mages, tanks, catchers and enchanters. ADC is the only lane that has a consistent role/champion type in marksmen.

Oh and Draven became an issue with deaths dance.

Combine that with Phantom Dancer and you have Draven drain tanking for days (which I recall Riot saying is unhealthy)

Not to mention Twitch has been an issue the entire season and Riot hasn't touched him once.

Twitch or Draven are my go to bans tbh

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20171 votes

Riot does buff marksmen subtly or directly a lot, especially since the last few months, but that's because most of them struggled a lot, particularly under the lethality meta.

And the reason we consistently got marksmen in the botlane i think, is because of tanks.

The reason i think so is because as seen under the lethality meta, if there are no tanks then mages can easily replace marksmen as the botlaner, however the moment a tank appears the mage becomes a bad choice....why?

Because in comparison they suck at killing tanks, thus without a marksman you lack the ability to restrain a tank, this grew a lot bigger after the tank rework which served to push Ziggs outa botlane too.

Doesn't help that nearly all enhancers damage enhancement benefit AD dps the most, and ardent censer only makes this more noticeable.

As for Draven....most of them don't even seem to build phantom, they opt into going static+IE and such stuff and straight up oneshot squshies between dravens Q AD ratio and crits + shiv bonus damage.

So i am really quite sure that Nerfing static shiv and RFC while locking DD into melee only would actually solve the most imdidiate issue´s at least.

Twitch i don't really know what to do about, he doesn't use the items but he´s still OP it seems-

PrinceOfStormsSep 20, 20171 votes

Riot does buff marksmen subtly or directly a lot

Yet ironically never gives them the hard, hobbling nerfs that marksmen need (we're talking more significant nerfs than Olaf received).

ThefrostyvikingSep 20, 20171 votes

1 OP champ, 3-4 others abusing items and 3 more being strong because the meta favors them doesn't mean that 15 other champions should be gutted along with them.

The marksman class as a whole has never been as problematic as olaf was at his peak, however there have indeed been individuals among them that have been and one who is.

Riot are working to have all their classes viable, nerfing one of them to the ground and gutting them seems very counterproductive no?

Their reworks have always been aimed at that after all, to make classes viable, fun and as interactive as possible, but simply gutting 20+ champs because you dislike a few is pretty much the straight road to failure of their main goal.

Thus "fixing" them one by one as they have been trying to, is the right way to do it.'

But generalizing an entire class because a few of it's members are going crazy and most of them are doing it because of OP items.....that's wrong.

It's like saying all mages are as strong as syndra 1v1 and as oppressive as brand in a clustered teamfight.

Or that all tanks are as hard to kill as Cho gath, and that all supports are as frustrating to play against as Janna.

Generalizing is bad and you should reflect on your words :/

PrinceOfStormsSep 20, 20171 votes

1 OP champ, 3-4 others abusing items and 3 more being strong because the meta favors them doesn't mean that 15 other champions should be gutted along with them.

ADCs are the only class that is always favored by the meta. They have never once, as an entire class, been disfavored to the point where they are considered an optional pick. Marksmen are the only class like this.

Riot are working to have all their classes viable, nerfing one of them to the ground and gutting them seems very counterproductive no?

If by "viable" you mean "have all their classes exist to support the ADC" that seems to be the case. Since Riot won't give mages compelling itemization.

ThefrostyvikingSep 20, 20171 votes

Because marksmen were always the easiest to balance, as they nearly always are completely item dependent. Thus you only need to tweak some numbers and suddenly they aren't OP anymore.

It gotta be a pleasant thing for the balance people.

Only marksman that they had trouble with if i recall was Jhin, but he stopped once DFT AD ratios and some parts of his kit were nerfed......which also served to help fix MF along the way.

And all classes do not exist to support the ADC, the fact that several assassins and mages even now seem to be doing very well is good proof of that.

Tanks are a bit more iffy since their entire raison d'etre is to protect their team and thus also the marksman but generally they are just like this huge wall moving around protecting anyone that happens to be there.

That includes the support and mage though.

But admittedly, divers, juggernatus and assassins are struggling more right now, but i would break it down thusly :

We're in a teamfight meta focused on the tanks and enhancer supports. Thus backline carries benefit immensely currently, marksmen and mages that is.

The new and improved tanks and updated support itemization has served to bring their power up a whole set of lvls which is pretty much the collective nightmare of any melee carries.

Unending CC and slows are abundant as are barriers and heals.

But why are marksmen so much more noticeable? It's because of 2 reasons, 1 small and big i think, and i´´ll name them in order.

The first is that AP itemization lacks good ways to handle the new tanks, massive health bars and powerful defensive steroids coupled with support barriers is making it hard to deal much damage to those moving walls. This is a problem that AD itemization does not have.

The second and bigger reason is that the combo of item 3087 item 3094 item 3031 is definately OP, it allows for burst on a DPS class which helps them shutdown things they shouldn't shutdown.

Thus in a meta were it's already hard to get to the marksman in the first place they posses a power they shouldn't, this is naturally causing frustrations to buildup.

Not that anyone who noticed the static buffs a while back was surprised, we all realized it was going to be bad and the Cait history and current ongoings have proven that to be very true.

SasogwaSep 18, 20178 votes

EVERYONE EXCEPT ADC IN 2k17 LUL

RainXBladeSep 19, 20173 votes

This guy's doing it right.

chipndip1Sep 18, 20174 votes

You guys can't bitch about skirmishers being bad...

... Fiora then bitch when a skirmisher is reverted from an onslaught of nerfs. Fiora

Pick one.

Jet SettSep 18, 20178 votes

"Onslaught of nerfs" it wasn't anywhere near that bad, unless the region that's been winning in LCS for the past several years has been doing it wrong this whole time.

chipndip1Sep 18, 20172 votes

So we're going with the "Skirmishers need to be nerfed" option?

Velzard of KozSep 18, 20174 votes

One champion doesn't dictate entire class nerfs.

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20174 votes

And yet 3 marksmen seem to be enough for people to demand the entire class be gutted?

Lol boards ._.

.....Trist isn't even OP by herself, it's the items she use,....same for Draven if we consider what caused him to get back into the meta again at the start.

KarfussSep 18, 20172 votes

No, I'd say Trist is OP by herself. Whenever I do, somehow, through autofill shenanigans, ADC then she is my go to pick.

She has a reset escape, attack speed steroid, a disengage, the highest scaling attack range, burst with an inbuilt waveclear. BY FAR the safest possible pick in the game IMHO. I'd certainly do something about her jump and remove her knockback distance per rank on her ult, at the very least.

Although I do agree with the sentiment. I wouldn't consider Ashe, for example, to be on par with Trist/Twitch/Draven. It'd be unfair for her to suffer a class wide gut, but I'd say needs must and give her a fair few QoL buffs.

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20172 votes

I´ve played Trist on and off for a long time, and having played her i am nearly certain that it's static and RFC that's pushing her damage into overdrive. You´ll notice yourself playing nearly like some wanabe assassin jumping on squishies with that build.

Being safe doesn't mean too much if you lack the damage to back it up, just look at botlane Ezreal x)

KarfussSep 18, 20171 votes

Not really. Most of her damage, or rather, burst per second comes from her ASroid Q, and a full stacked E that Q allows.

I usually follow an anti-tank build because I know I already have the damage to delete squishies.

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20172 votes

Anti tank build is botrk into guinso, a melter build.

That's how you fully dedicate yourself to anti tank.

And have you actually asked the people that go around complaining about the marksmen? Half the time i get a incoherent mumble of insults but the other time i get told that it´s "unfun" to play against someone who with a single crit from enhanced range+ static proc takes half their health.

If Trist's Q was the problem she would have been considered OP under the botrk meta or under the hurrcane one, but she was not.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 18, 20171 votes

It's always the items right? That tristana always comes up as god tier when its the items surely means it#s the items right? Maybe a champ with such a high range, two peelin abilities AND burst AND towermelting AND AS steroid just causes problems. 3 Adcs? Kog, xayah, kalista, trist, twitch, draven, sivir are all great picks right now. Corki mid and lucian mid as well. Man only two adcs who are overpowered :( Even varus is played plenty in high dia +.

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20172 votes

Tristana wasn't OP before, that's plenty of evidence along with the fact that you´ll always build those items on her.

She wasn't anywhere near this bad in the botrk rush or hurricane+IE metas.

All those picks depend on what elo you play in, except Twitch who is good everywhere except pro play.....maybe not in bronze too?

I could well go and say that Ashe is good in Silver....because there aren't really any really bad picks there, they just lack basic skills.

Going into gold and above you might wana consider your picks more carefully though as people here will be able to use the strengths of their champions to a higer degree.

As for those two midlaners.....Lucian is my knowledge used as a counterpick against mages with big skillshots. He was made to be a evasive lanebully which didn't really work out in a enhancer and auto trade meta. Meaning he also does not handle mages with large AOE or targeted abilties.

Corki......isn't he also using static shiv+rfc+ie? I think i saw that recently.

Varus is in terms of popularity ranked 68th in diamond, not exactly popular or unpopular. Id say balanced if anything.....which means he get's outperformed by the truly strong ones.

Sivir and Xayah are played for waveclear and survival, sivir for her ultimate as well, not for killing everything in sight instantly.

Draven is using deaths dance and static+ IE.

Kog likes the current meta, it's perfect for him, but admittedly he is strong and i forgot about him since he is situational. But he generally performs well with a enhancer support and a strong tank frontline.

Trist is using static shiv+RFC+IE to be a thing, wasn't anywhere near this strong without them, as mentioned earlier.

So all in all, only kog really stands out as being strong.....except Twitch whom i already consider OP. However Kog has more limitations compared to Twitch so i am inclined to say he´s alright and only standing out because of the meta.

Item abuse is a huge reason why marksmen are going crazy, and out of the 4 not abusing items and still being good or even strong 2 are played for wave clear, survival and utility.

chipndip1Sep 18, 20172 votes

So buff Yasuo?

Velzard of KozSep 18, 20172 votes

Or maybe just leave him alone? Or nerf him due to his own flaws. Or buff him due to his own weaknesses

chipndip1Sep 18, 20172 votes

But if it's "Skirmishers in 2k17 LUL", then that means a majority of skirmishers are weak right now.

So buff Master Yi and Tryndamere?

FilDaFunkSep 18, 20174 votes

I'd much rather get ADCs nerfed than everyone else buffed.

WDG DevourSep 18, 20172 votes

I'd rather ADC stay the way they are now and no buffs for anyone else as it is not needed...

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20174 votes

There are problems though, that is probably undeniable.

Twitch, for instance, while not seeing pro play is still quite overwhelming in soloq, this due to possessing sustained long range damage while playing as a assassin post the midgame point item wise.

And then we have a few marksmen abusing the heck out of item 3087 item 3094 item 3031 giving them burst to kill squishies extremely quickly which they weren't meant to.

Any marksman not using that item combo except Twitch is pretty much considered bad right now, it speaks volumes about how strong they are.....and how strong Twitch is.

NoblewindSep 18, 20171 votes

It's that build being strong in multiple situations + the current strength of support itemization working in tandem (can probably add warlords on top). It's why the hypercarries are winning short games, they don't have enough of a weakness right now

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20172 votes

Twitch is probably the only real hypercarry winning short games.....kog isn't doing it is he? And Vayne isnt played much.

As for weaknesses....they all remain but they're too hard to exploit when the guys supposed to kill them are dying instantly.

Someone needs to start a petition to revert marksmen from ranged burst back to ranged DPS.

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20172 votes

Class wide nerfs is kinda uncalled for when there is really only 1 that's outa control and 4 item abusers.

Nerf the one going overboard by himself and then the items being abused and it´ll calm down again.

I dare you to call Ashe OP, i double dare you :(

MelledoneusSep 18, 20173 votes

She's OP.

Puts on brass knuckles

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20174 votes

Flips table out of sheer anger

Calls the closest pub

Reserves a table and beer, dresses up fancily and puts on a monocle, ready discuss like a gentleman, and to win like a Sir.

After putting the table back in place.

Manners maketh man.

MelledoneusSep 18, 20175 votes

Kicks table

I have a problem with authority.

Pats table apologetically

Sorry you got involved, table.

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20171 votes

.................A warden telling a passing Sir with no real power that he has problems with authority.....do you perhaps need consultation? O_o

Go use your warden powers to help Riot figure out what they want with Caitlyn or go admire those new skins on the PBE instead of harassing a poor passing gent :(

.....Because it looks like they are reverting most of the nerfs to cait's base stats, and nerfing her Q now. Oh and headshot works on turrets there too.

Riot seem a little lost on how to handle cait, you can go help them i am sure.^^

MelledoneusSep 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

.................A warden telling a passing Sir with no real power that he has problems with authority.....do you perhaps need consultation? O_o

Well, it IS called Riot Games. . ;D

ThefrostyvikingSep 18, 20172 votes

Even their own wardens are Rioting....against what? Who knows but a Riot is ongoing still.

Darthmemes02Sep 24, 20171 votes

Ashe OP PLZ NERF(jk fuc this garbage ass champ that only works if ur team has more brain cells than a potato). Naw she just annoying af to try and play the spltpush game against