@Morello or anyone else. What's behind the decision to make Voidlings and Tibbers not scale on AP?

5G8Nri0B54··2 votes·668 views

To me it's always felt like an archaic design that harkens back to the days when Yi scaled off AP and Miss Fortune's W had no AD scaling...both very questionable designs.

When I look at it, there is little reason for Malzahar's Voidlings and Annie 's Tibbers to not have some sort of way to scale up as the game goes. I know that most people tend to ignore those pet's existence, and players often ignore them the same way Yorick 's ghouls are an afterthought (speaking of which, Sion down, Yorick's turn now?).

But those pets are very iconic for those two champions. For Malzahar, his Passive is easily one of the more unique Passives in the game, and for Annie...having a bear named Tibbers is like 60% of her identity, the 40% being an underaged pyromaniac.

As far as gameplay goes, I've noticed that Voidlings are paid attention to mostly in-lane when any source of damage is significant, especially when they're in their final phase of their rather short life-cycle and the enemy is suppressed. As for Tibbers, the summoned bear itself is nothing more than an afterthought and people only pay attention to Annie's R is because it's an instant AoE nuke without any travel time...that also happens to summon a bear that most people either quickly shred to pieces, or ignore and go after Annie. The bear just isn't there.

I'm well aware that, IF (the biggest if in the world btw) Tibbers is allowed to stick to the entire enemy team and proceed to whack away for his entire duration, Tibbers' damage is actually quite significant, but 1) that's clearly never the case now is it? and 2) if it really is super substantial and strong, that's the most extreme case of invisible power if I ever see it.


Why don't those two pets scale off AP ala most pets of AP champions nowadays? It'd certainly modernize them, and maybe then people would pay attention to them in a battle. Is there any plans at all to MODERNIZE many of these AP mages to be more along the lines with newer design values?

Obviously their base damage will have to be adjusted around to fit those AP ratios, but you did it with other abilities that didn't initially have AP ratios, like Lulu 's Passive(it should have had it from the start...).

Annie I want to especially talk about because she is practically League of Legend's mascot for such a long time in this game's life-span, yet I've never seen her played even once after I started playing Ranked. She's outdated, and you can't argue that she's supposed to be "baby's first AP mage", because that's Ryze and he's one of the most powerful AP mages in the game despite being "baby's first AP mage".

5 Comments

LordTobiothan2 votes

malz voidlings self scale well enough by themselves, because they use malz ad and when they power up get a % increase they gain damage as he levels and then improve that damage more, then that is doubled because late game you can have 2 out far more often then early on.

Caezium2 votes

Tibbers AOE dmg scales with AP.

Voidlings scale with AD, and if they were to scale with AP Malzahar would become really broken.

Lord Dusteon1 votes

Malzahar probably doesn't because he already has insanely high damage, and giving him even more via voidling scaling (which do physical damage) would probably break him.

Otherwise, Tibber's flame aura does scale with AP, which goes well with his main use in teamfights (AoE Stun).

5G8Nri0B541 votes

It's really really hard to break Malzahar. I know he has his very tiny niche of dedicated fans who became good with him by virtue of nobody having any idea how to play against a champion they've never seen before, and they having gotten really good at playing only him. But it's much harder to break him than you'd think in the current meta.

More importantly, I did specifically mention his Voidlings numbers may need some shifting if this happens.

Otherwise, Tibber's flame aura does scale with AP, which goes well with his main use in teamfights (AoE Stun).

I think I heavily hinted at it in my post, but that's kind of a problem. That's just plain bad champion design.

edit: yes I did

Desmond Law1 votes

What are you talking about? Voidling attacks scale with Malz's AD and Tibbers burn AoE scales with Annie's AP.

Active: Annie summons TibbersSquare.png Tibbers to the target location in a burst of flame, dealing magic damage to enemies within 290-range. Tibbers remains on the field for up to 45 seconds, and Annie can control his movement and attacks.

Summon- Tibbers.png Summon magic damage: 175 / 300 / 425 (+ 80% AP)
Total summon magic damage: 210 / 335 / 460 (+ 100% AP)

TibbersSquare.png Tibbers deals magical damage with his attacks, and is also surrounded by a flaming aura that deals 35 (+ 20% AP) magic damage every second to enemies within 200-range of himself. === Voidling ATTACK RANGE: 100 SIGHT RANGE: ? GOLD: 12 gold EXP: 0 exp VoidlingSquare

Attack damage 20 + (5 × Malzahar's level) (+ 100% bonus AD) Attack speed 0.831 Health 200 + (50 × Malzahar's level) Health regen. N/A Mov. speed 451 Armor 30 Magic res. 50 AoE mitigation N/A

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