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Veigar's rework was a good thing

Soda Popkillski··9 votes·1,626 views

He got range. Veigar is a SEVERELY squishy champion and going too deep in will easily resort in death, thus having increased range is always fitting.

He got counterplay. Back previous to the rework a Veigar could just instantly stun you to then quickly finish you off with the rest of his abilities, where is the counterplay in that? There is none, and it was extremely toxic and unfun to play against. Now you have the choice between being stunned, being trapped for ages (honestly increasing the duration of event horizon would be a great buff) or flashing out. Though, like every other skillshot, if the ability is used properly, very few people will have the reaction time to avoid the stun.

He got interesting mechanics. Previously Veigar was just this champion where you clicked on minion a bunch in the early-game (unlike nasus' Q it's a ranged attack, making it less risky and less interesting), and in the late-game just press E slightly to the side of an enemy to stun them and proceed to click on them.

The only issue with Veigar's rework is that he is SLIGHTLY weaker than average, but that can easily be fixed. Veigar is now a much better designed champion whose fun to play yet not so unfun to play against. The instant stun was toxic and needed to be removed, just like Annie's current stun.

Just please, stop complaining, the rework was an improvement, weither you like it or not.

PS: Sorry if it's hard to read, i've been on the computer for a little too long and I have a minor headache.

65 Comments

Trídent7 votes

Let's get this straight for anyone commenting on this thread-

the Veigar mains who say the rework wasn't better for him are NOT saying it because:

He's underpowered, overpowered, or any issue with game balance

Arkantasa2 votes

THANK YOU. It feels like people (like this thread's creator) are just oblivious.

Twisted Yordul6 votes

Though, like every other skillshot, if the ability is used properly, very few people will have the reaction time to avoid the stun.

  ...
Soda Popkillski1 votes

If you can't land it properly then you're just shit at veigar and shouldn't be posting in any thread regarding his current position. I myself has played new veigar a lot and can confirm that it very much works like that.

Twisted Yordul8 votes

You played him once.

Soda Popkillski1 votes

Why do people keep claiming that?

Twisted Yordul5 votes

Because according to OP.GG, you only played him once.

You also are acting like you rarely play him.

Soda Popkillski1 votes

Well then OP.GG is bugged, because I have in fact played him more than once. Do you think that i'd let a legendary skin come to waste?

I'm not acting like i have rarely played him, you are. Unless we're talking about OLD veigar, someone that I found so boring I only played him like twice.

Arkantasa5 votes

you don't even play veigar do you?

Sasogwa6 votes

You don't understand at all the weaknesses of new Veigar, it's pathetic.

You also don't understand the fact that a targeted spell has a higher effective range, because the projectile follows the target, and a delayed spell has less effective range, because the target can move away.

Veigar's problem, as countlessly explained by Veigar players as it was and guys like you never paid attention, is not his damage output, or his viability. It's his desperate reliance on teammates or ennemies to be bad to be able to make use of his spells, because against brained opponents, he can't land any spells. He can't do plays by himself, he's not rewarding at all compared to how he was before. Like... every champion has rewarding gameplay that makes you feel good when you land something. As Veigar, it's more like : well, I put my spell there, I'll wait to see if he's stupid enough to go there. or : Oh, warwick ulted that guy, I'll W on him and it will land ; chain my stun on it as well.

Trídent6 votes

Nah, pretty sure the problem's that he's too short

Soda Popkillski1 votes

That's only the case when he's chasing, and not when he's running. It isn't automatically shorter ranged only because you can't specifically chase any better with it.

Veigar in the late-game can instakill any opponent, I wouldn't say that he's team reliant then. Maybe you haven't considered that you're just absolute shit with veigar? If used correctly even his E will be very difficult to dodge by the enemy player, and even if they DO dodge it you still have them trapped inside a cage, something that can allow you to use both your ult and Q freely while also being able to use your W to zone them off even more

Trídent7 votes

Maybe you haven't considered that you're just absolute shit with veigar?

Proving my point, you're acting like a douche.

You've only played one game as Veigar.

Soda Popkillski1 votes

There is a difference between acting like a douche and telling people to reconsider. I may have gone too far by sayin "absolute shit" instead of just "bad", but it still doesn't mean i'm a douche.

I have played much more than 1 game as veigar, I even have the legendary skin.

Trídent7 votes

You were acting like a complete douche.

The boards are here to have civilized discussions, not to have exchanges of insults- here, let me word your response in a more civilized way.

That's only the case when he's chasing, and not when he's running. It isn't automatically shorter ranged only because you can't specifically chase any better with it.

Veigar in the late-game can instakill any opponent, I wouldn't say that he's team reliant then. If used correctly even his E will be very difficult to dodge by the enemy player, and even if they DO dodge it you still have them trapped inside a cage, something that can allow you to use both your ult and Q freely while also being able to use your W to zone them off even more

done.

Arkantasa2 votes

well said sasogwa

Trídent5 votes

This, I would've said this myself..... but I'm kinda tired of saying this 32423432141233 times for every Veigar thread

Trídent5 votes

Yeah: destroying his identity making him slightly boring to play making him a farm bot lowering his skill cap

was a good thing

Just please, stop complaining, the rework was an improvement, weither you like it or not.

o a nice guy, he used "please"!!!---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o a douche

Soda Popkillski1 votes

They kept his full identity (they changed nothing whatsoever about his identity outside of his toxisity) How is a more interesting kit more boring? He was a farm bot already, they just made him more of a farm bot, by simply buffing his Q's farming. His old skillcap was very minimal compared to his current skillcap, what in the world makes you say that it's the other way around?

I don't see how i'm such a douche.

Trídent6 votes

They kept his full identity

Uh... yeah....
Veigar= burst? farm bot? Zone? poke? rammus?

How is a more interesting kit more boring?

There's nothing exciting about watching some fools walk into your horizon

He was a farm bot already, they just made him more of a farm bot, by simply buffing his Q's farming.

No, he wasn't. He wasn't Nasus.

His old skillcap was very minimal compared to his current skillcap, what in the world makes you say that it's the other way around?

Before you had to practice, practice, practice, and practice to land it right, and actually instantly stun people, bait QSSs, know when to actually place your stun( wait for the enemy to position themselves a certain way, and you could actually make satisfying plays.

I don't see how i'm such a douche.

"the rework was an improvement, weither you like it or not." yep

Soda Popkillski1 votes

He is still great at poking, he is still heavily bursty, and he has always been a farm bot.

Because it's SOOOO exciting to click on the enemy a few times

He was. His Q still stacked pre-rework. The only difference is that he now can do it from longer range, has to do it with a skillshot, and can hit 2 at the time. Well, it also has a 1 second higher cooldown.

"practice, practice, practive, and practice" You only needed to play 2 matches and you were used to the radius of his E. Now he needs to properly predict the enemy movement to hit it right. Not only that, but his Q is, as said, a skillshot with a higher cooldown but can also potentially hit 2 minions

I still don't see how that's douchy. I was just stating that after the rework Veigar was a much more complicated and more fun to play against champion, making it better designed.

Arkantasa3 votes

he's not nasus tho..

Soda Popkillski1 votes

He isn't specifically Nasus, yes. But what of that? I never said anything about him being Nasus, the other guy did.

Arkantasa2 votes

Your argument was that they made him more of a farmer = he's not supposed to be nasus, what's the point of making him farm way more than he should / supposed to. Like I said, it's pointless when all u do is farm lol

Soda Popkillski1 votes

Well now I at least know what you're talking about. I thought you were stating that Veigar simply wasn't nasus (in which he isn't).

I never used Veigar being more of a farmer as an argument to him being better designed. I never used it as an argument at all. I just stated that he is now able to farm while poking, something that is a fact.

Arkantasa1 votes

But how often do you actually poke people with your NEW Q? Don't you literally save up the mana early game just to stack stack stack? Why would u need to poke with it?

Trídent6 votes

he has always been a farm bot.

Have you played Veigar before his rework? Most skilled Veigars used his Q primarily as poke, not as a stacking tool.

"practice, practice, practive, and practice" You only needed to play 2 matches and you were used to the radius of his E. Now he needs to properly predict the enemy movement to hit it right.

You needed way more than 2 matches to use his E to its greatest potential. Your argument about prediction would be true, if the enemy couldn't see it. There's no use predicting against skilled players that actually don't walk into your stun, they can s and nuke you, or just blink out. While it is easy to stun players in high-chaos situation... how can you be satisfied with the stun... if you know fully well that it wasn't your "skill" that got them stunned, it was their stupidity that got them stunned.

I still don't see how that's douchy. I was just stating that after the rework Veigar was a much more complicated and more fun to play against champion, making it better designed.

sigh

Soda Popkillski1 votes

I have played Veigar pre-rework. He was probably my least favorite champion (of those whom I had played at the time) to play, and he was VERY unfun to play against.

Well, not you can do both at the same time. With the new double hit mechanic he can both poke and stack at the same time. He may not be able to zone, but he can still poke Additionally, would you say any other (remotely major) reworks have ever kept the full identity of a champion? Personally I think the amount of things they kept about his identity was impressive.

The amount of practice it took to learn how to hit his E was very minimal, so in my personal opinion i found it very insatisfying to hit his stun. His new stun also has other ways of satisfaction that just hitting it anyways: "oh I just saved a teammate" (though it always worked this way), "oh I just trapped them!" (unlike pre-rework, when you would feel a dissatisfying feeling of failure when that happened), and "oh I just INSTANTLY killed them only using my Q and R, because I have used the early-game to farm 90138120 ap" (pre-rework when a veigar wasn't fed it would be a decent chance for the combo to fail, giving a HUGE feeling of dissatiscation). To sum it up: The new E sacrificed 1 way of satisfaction to remove 2 ways of dissatisfaction and HUGELY widen the counterplay and general fun it was to play against him against him.

Trídent5 votes

Additionally, would you say any other (remotely major) reworks have ever kept the full identity of a champion? Personally I think the amount of things they kept about his identity was impressive.

And yet you were saying his identity was exactly the same a few posts ago

His new stun also has other ways of satisfaction that just hitting it anyways: "oh I just saved a teammate" (though it always worked this way), "oh I just trapped them!" (unlike pre-rework, when you would feel a dissatisfying feeling of failure when that happened), and "oh I just INSTANTLY killed them only using my Q and R, because I have used the early-game to farm 90138120 ap" (pre-rework when a veigar wasn't fed it would be a decent chance for the combo to fail,

The first you could do with the old one. Trapping someone is very, very easy, no satisfaction there. Pre-rework, Veigar could do the same QR combo and kill a squishie without being fed. with a higher success rate.

Soda Popkillski1 votes

Well, that wasn't so true, but it's still very similar to the old veigar.

Trapping someone is very easy, but now i'm not talking about difficulty, i'm talking about satisfaction. As mentioned pre-rework missing the stun and instead trapping the enemy was DISSATISFYING, instead of slightly satisfying-

He could, but occationally it would fail, now it fails much less. That was my point.

Oh yeah, and I wouldn't say that you are less douchy for saying "have you ever played veigar after his rework", when you are stating pretty much the same thing as I did. If only there was an eyeroll emote I could use right here.

Trídent6 votes

doing something very easy isn't very satisfying

have you ever played veigar after his rework

just asking a question in a very annoyed way, quite different from forcing an opinion on someone because you obviously are always right.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Liz-Lemon-Eye-Roll-and-Exhale-30-Rock.gif

Soda Popkillski1 votes

Except that there are other ways of satisfaction than just hitting a skillshot

When a champion is so toxic as veigar was, then it is very much a fact that making him less toxic (even though it may make him less fun) makes it better designed. Though, his DEGREE of toxisity may be an opinion, something that I should have thought of, but then argument it and I may not say things like those.

PS: Adding an eyeroll like that (specifically one as that) right there is just as douchy as claiming you are correct. So once again, you're not any less douchy than I am. Oh yeah, and sarcasm is also douchy. Let me just be THAT guy (you) and point out everything that's remotely douchy no matter how minor of a degree it is.

Trídent5 votes

PS: Adding an eyeroll like that (underline LIKE THAT) right there is just as douchy as claiming you are correct. So once again, you're not any less douchy than I am.

bruh, i added it because you wanted it

If only there was an eyeroll emote I could use right here.

Soda Popkillski1 votes

"LIKE THAT" I specifically told you to underline exactly that. I mean a cheeky little eyeroll, not a "uh you're dumb and you should go kill yourself" eyeroll.

Trídent5 votes

Well, I was too lazy to find another eyeroll other than the first one I found....

but just to make you happy :)

http://orig03.deviantart.net/d9e5/f/2013/199/e/0/derp_or_me_gusta_by_starthewolf2001-d6dzy3c.jpg

derp

Soda Popkillski1 votes

Well thank you, that actually helped a bit. I'm in a bad mood. Good to know that you didn't actually mean it in the "uh you're dumb and you should go kill yourself" way, too.

Very Hard Engage3 votes

WHO CAN NO LONGER DEFEND HIMSELF IN ANY CAPACITY

Soda Popkillski3 votes

Yes he can. Press E and they can no longer chase you. I don't see how his old self, with his SHORTER range was better at defeding himself.

Crowe Stalker2 votes

Nocturne Olaf item 3102 any Blink/Flash, geting out of E before it forms...

Soda Popkillski1 votes

Very very few champions and a very high cooldown summoner spell can counter him. Oh boy, ain't it terrible that there is counterplay to a champion? There is difference between someones escapeability being terrible and someones escapeability being COUNTERABLE.

Trídent6 votes

uhuh

Aatrox Ahri Akali Corki Diana Ekko Elise Ezreal Fiora Fizz Gnar Hecarim JarvanIV Katarina Kassadin Kennen Leblanc LeeSin Leona Lissandra Lucian Maokai Shaco Rammus Olaf Nidalee Riven Sivir Talon Tristana Udyr Vladimir MonkeyKing Zed Yasuo Vayne Vi

can all get out with ease

Soda Popkillski1 votes

Not even half of those can get out. You do realize that the only way to get out of it is a blink? Most forms of dashes (though I don't know about aartrox's) get interrupted by the stun.

Trídent5 votes

The dash/ms champs could've gotten out before it formed, now for those who could get out after:Ekko Elise Ezreal Fizz Hecarim Katarina Leblanc Lissandra Maokai ( I believe so)Nocturne Olaf Morgana Shaco Sion Vladimir TahmKench Sivir Zed Malphite Yasuo(situational)

 and anyone with ![item 3102](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/item/3102.png) ![item 3140](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/item/3140.png)

and yes, some of them are dashes.

Soda Popkillski1 votes

People with dashes can also dodge skillshots in case you didn't know. It's only a difference in reaction time needed.

Oh yes and the spellshield/cleanse things don't count, as they were still issues pre-rework.

Arkantasa1 votes

you're missing the point soda. lol

Soda Popkillski1 votes

What's the point then?

Very Hard Engage3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soda Popkillski,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3OfVeaNf,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-08T17:17:18.024+0000)

Very very few champions and a very high cooldown summoner spell can counter him. Oh boy, ain't it terrible that there is counterplay to a champion? There is difference between someones escapeability being terrible and someones escapeability being COUNTERABLE.

any champion with a gap closer and puts themselves on veigars face. hooks poke righteous glory/coin merc treds basically ignores his stun up through rank 3, 4 will be just enough time for meteor to hit successfully. banshees veil anyone can zhonyas and put veigars ult on CD if they do it while its in motion windwall/braum shield stealth

all of those above things destroy veigar, if you want to say otherwise go ahead. but at the end of the day, faker, bjergsen, scarra, dabox, (there are more mid laners as well) have all stopped playing veigar entirely after patch 5.4, tell me why they would suddenly stop playing him instead of occasionally like they used to.

Soda Popkillski1 votes

All of this has been an issue for veigar pre-rework too. We're talking about how good he is at escaping compared to his old self.

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