There is no reason to play AP champions anymore.

BakedLotion·Nov 11, 2015·218 votes·10,192 views

Insanely overpowered AD items, increased MR on all tank items, and AP item nerfs across the board. Why the fuck would anyone wanna play AP champions anymore...

197 Comments

YambrinZNov 11, 201556 votes

Because this patch is actually a ninja buff to item 3075 Oh wait...armor means nothing in this game. Nevermind, as you were.

jdogg5543Nov 11, 201554 votes

You guys are retarded. Please read patch notes before saying they gutted AP mids.

-First off the spectral crow has LESS MR on it , giving mages a chance to do more damage even after someone gets the item. -Second, the banshees and SV (although the MR is higher), the cost is also higher, so it will take longer to get that banshees veil. -Starting gold is higher, gold income is higher. -No mana potions, however they have 3 refillable flasks now hat provide way more than enough sustain and chalice has never gone anywhere. -45% COOLDOWN REDUCTION CAP now: Tibbers is always out, Twisted fate can smack you with two gold cards if quick enough, etc. -Rod of ages got buffed to have 80 AP like most other items AND is a tanky item as well. -They are building ARMOR against the all powerful Attack damage Carry and not magic resist. That means more 1 shots for your Leblanc, more penta kills for your annie, and more Ace cleanups with your Brand. -A keystone that gives you a free ludens echo proc for waveclear on those hard to hit/slow clearing mages.

relax, before you assume mages are dead. Read the patch notes and stop assuming.

ZedexNov 11, 20154 votes

Thank you for a reasonable post and voice in all this chaos!

Truthfully, I think the boards are overreacting to everything this preseason has churned out. It hasn't even been out a day.

VerxintNov 12, 20154 votes

So... Every other preseason?

BerzNov 11, 20156 votes

This needs so many up votes. Unfortunately it's going to get lost in the sea of knee-jerk moaning.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbNov 11, 20153 votes

It think the 45% cdr is intended for supports, isn't it?

rampaging poetNov 12, 201516 votes

The Cunning tree isn't just the Support tree, it's also the Burst Damage tree.

MrVörtNov 12, 20154 votes

I think Cunning will be a great tree for hard-burst Assassins like: Talon, Kha, Zed, Akali, Diana (even though she's a fighter, her kit screams -ASSASSIN!-), Ekko, Aatrox (jungle). For example :P

Lintu PuckNov 12, 20156 votes

Read? What is this foreign concept? Only circle-jerking allowed on the boards!

DemonwolfNov 12, 20155 votes

This is exactly the thing I was thinking. People also forget that as far as raw damage goes, all ad items have been nerfed with the exception of youmuus and trinity. They all give 15 or 5 less AD than before. The only thing that buffed was the passives and the lifesteal. Even attackspeed was nerfed for ad champs. In comparison to that, magic is now as good as ever honestly. The increased prices across the board is like you said, because of the increased gold availability.

WarlockLawNov 13, 20152 votes

My big complaint is that adc's now have more utility than mages in itemization. What mage item is there that gives me flat damage reduction? What about converting sone damage into a dot. How about any form of in combat sustain that is relevant. How about 100% uptime on grevious wounds? Adcs just got more toys than mages gave ever had.

DemonwolfNov 13, 20152 votes

I do agree with that to an extent though. Mages are basically just walking death statblobs compared to all the crazy passives the adc items have. Kind of makes the mage item rework kind of underwhelming.

WarlockLawNov 13, 20152 votes

On top of that the mana pot removal disproportionately affects mages and the compensation for it was almost nothing. I don't understand how it can be considered compensation to move some per level stats into base stats for an overall net change of zero

JAGMAGNov 12, 20154 votes

wow you went against the circle jerk and actually got upvoted congrats sir (and i also agree)

DisulfiramNov 11, 201515 votes

Yep, no reason to play someone who's going to delete those squishies from two screens away. Lux Xerath

Or that can easily delete a whole bunch of them with the help of some initiation CC. Fiddlesticks Karthus Katarina

Or that can take one out way before their new sustain even kicks in. Leblanc

math crabNov 11, 201532 votes

Except every single fucking one of them got their builds nerfed into the ground this patch.

DisulfiramNov 11, 201515 votes

You have a pretty peculiar concept of "nerfing into the ground"... but I guess I shouldn't be surprised about such uproars: the boards overreacting to any change is not something new, after all.

math crabNov 11, 201524 votes

1k+ more gold for a stat loss is the biggest nerf that I can remember ever happening to a class's builds. It's pretty enormous.

ModAcademy KaynNov 11, 201517 votes

Why are people still complaining about Gold Costs... They offset it with the increase gold gain.

DarkSunSovereignNov 11, 201516 votes

Yet AD items didn't have their cost increased iirc

ModAcademy KaynNov 11, 201511 votes

Looking at the notes IE, BT, BORK, and components of those were increased. Some were reduced granted, but those who did lost stats for it.

Also, take care to remember that Prime ADC items were already really expensive, compared to other items.

LearndingNov 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Why are people still complaining about Gold Costs... They offset it with the increase gold gain.

So they changed nothing then. They just removed other items to factor in a mindless gold offset to justify the cost increase of other items. Again there's 0 intuition when it comes to design with this company. They just add and remove, then cross their fingers in hopes things change. They do absolutely no controlled testing with their new designs, and when it fails they're like, "OOOPS, better remove more stuff".

Kurai1Nov 12, 20155 votes

You are assuming that the gold offset makes all the items the same as before but if that was the case then they would not have different price increases. They would all have the same increase in cost. The change to gold just speeds up item purchases on items who did not have a price change. It's basically making the purchases run smoother instead of taking a long time to get an item and having a gap develop because an enemy finished an item while you still have parts for 5 minutes.

DeaerasNov 11, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dark Valkyrie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3N9Oj3rA,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-11-11T17:36:42.023+0000)

Except every single fucking one of them got their builds nerfed into the ground this patch.

Bruh, most of them only cost 200 more, whereas you gain more gold from the changes to gold income, read the patch notes kid.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Nov 11, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Bruh, most of them only cost 200 more, whereas you gain more gold from the changes to gold income, read the patch notes kid.

AP cost increased, AD cost untouched. Where's the balance again? Or were ADs too weak that they needed a catch up?

LaowPingNov 12, 20157 votes

Many ADC items lost stats. Phantom and Static lost attack speed, IE lost crit chance and damage, Blood thirster lost 5 but it was expensive as hell in the first place, like many adc items.

BakedLotionNov 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yep, no reason to play someone who's going to delete those squishies from two screens away.

Or that can easily delete a whole bunch of them with the help of some initiation CC.

Or that can take one out way before their new sustain even kicks in.

Yeah cause any of those champions can damage a 300+ MR champion. Sike.

DisulfiramNov 11, 201515 votes

Actually a 300+ MR ADC isn't exactly going to output enough damage to be a problem or to justify him being a priority target instead of pretty much anyone else...

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

BakedLotionNov 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Actually a 300+ MR ADC isn't exactly going to output enough damage to be a problem or to justify him being a priority target instead of pretty much anyone else...

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Why would an ADC buy 300 MR. It's clear who we're talking about and it's champions who use AD. Do u have a brain? I never said ADC. I said AD items and MR buffs.

And AP was nerfed across the along with the ad buffs and MR buffs. Nerf one or the other, not make AP non existent along with a buff to MR

XeynidNov 11, 20157 votes

AP Champions have longer range than AD assassins. AP Champions can pick off and kill high priority targets from a much safer distance than their AD counterparts.

So in that sense, the point of picking AP over AD is that you want an assassin that doesn't have to dive, in which case, the MR buffs don't really matter.

Really, Riot's ideology here is that AP champions are fundamentally different from AD champions, and regardless of how much power (within reason) you remove from one and add to the other, neither will make the other unusable. Like if you buff all supports to insane levels, people aren't going to suddenly stop using ADC's just because they got nerfed and supports got buffed. You need the guy that does the ADC's job, no matter how well other champions can do their job.

Now, it is entirely possible that the power disparity ends up resulting in AD assassins and casters crowding out AP counterparts simply because Riot underestimates how important the utility of "I am a mage" is, and it's entirely possible that you're right, but Riot did mention that they think that AP champions fill a different role from AD champions, and will probably be fine, and even if they're not, they can just buff the AP champions later.

Spizzle9000Nov 11, 20153 votes

Now, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm 100% serious and I mean no disrespect: what's the big different role that AP champions fill that an AD champion can't at this point?

Like, range is all I can think of. I'm pretty sure Riot is just doing what Riot does: massive insane and unreasonable meta shift for the preseason just to rile everyone up and get attention for when they release the patch that undoes the bullshit done to pretty much any AP champion and sustain champion and pretty much anyone other than ADCs.

Maybe I sound salty. Well that's because I am. I hate these changes, but I hate to think that I've spent countless hours on this game and quite a bit of cash on it for nothing. I'm not done yet, but if this bullshit doesn't stop, I will be.

LaowPingNov 12, 20153 votes

CC is a big part. Not too many ad champions cc they have. AOE damage is also really nice. And let's not underestimate the power of poke. Getting a champion low during a fight or siege is big. It's also a lot more safety that AD champions generally don't have.

SeargentAnusNov 11, 201512 votes

Meanwhile I'll continue to play Velkoz and watch as all of you ADs don't understand you can't do anything to stop his damage outside killing him.

LeeDarkNov 12, 20151 votes

Or, you know... stepping to the side, since none of his damage is targeted.

SeargentAnusNov 12, 201513 votes

I got an S in geometry. That sidestep is what I was aiming for.

KapppaccinoNov 12, 20155 votes

savage o.O

Ariel the CruelNov 12, 20159 votes

Lissandra I Viktor like Orianna my Fiddlesticks utility.

Ahri non-ult Chogath hard Morgana CC Syndra is Velkoz fun.

Meep ManNov 11, 20158 votes

Because playing Veigar is fun and seeing the enemy ADC blow up is fun

JackMcSnipeyzNov 11, 20156 votes

What nerfs? Rod of ages got 20 more ap. Lich bane got 10% CDR and more move speed.

Ohh you mean the prices? Yea... All items got higher prices except ones that were nerfed. Most adc items got nerfed if anything losing damage, and losing armor pen.

I have no excuse for the grevious wounds though. That one is bullshit

BakedLotionNov 11, 201511 votes

{quoted}

What nerfs? Rod of ages got 20 more ap. Lich bane got 10% CDR and more move speed.

Ohh you mean the prices? Yea... All items got higher prices except ones that were nerfed. Most adc items got nerfed if anything losing damage, and losing armor pen.

I have no excuse for the grevious wounds though. That one is bullshit

20 ap isnt gonna save u from someone buying extremely cost efficient AD items and buying SV or Banshee that gives 70 MR 500 hp each. Not to mention the fact that all ap items are barely cost efficient now.. Have to spend another 5 minutes farming a lane for an item that already gets outclassed by an AD item that costs half of what im buying.

JackMcSnipeyzNov 11, 20154 votes

{quoted}

20 ap isnt gonna save u from someone buying extremely cost efficient AD items and buying SV or Banshee that gives 70 MR 500 hp each. Not to mention the fact that all ap items are barely cost efficient now.. Have to spend another 5 minutes farming a lane for an item that already gets outclassed by an AD item that costs half of what im buying.

What top tier AD items cost half of an AP item and give the same general power? None. Also mages of access to a lot more items with great stats until this patch, items with CDR and MR and AP all in the same item, items with armor and a lot of AP. Stop crying, mages had way better choices of items until now, just cause AD items are getting on par with them wont make your average Q spamming mage useless.

XonraNov 11, 20158 votes

I think people are just upset, because the fact is, it isn't all 100% mages being hit as much as everything around them being brought up to a point that overshadows them (which it does).

The AD itemization is far better than the AP counterparts. Crit is better, lifesteal is better, early AND late game builds for AD are better, the main MR items were buffed. Even if nothing was touched on any of the AP items, that would still be pretty hard to deal with.

Mages are gated by mana and cooldowns, but cdr was removed from masteries unless you dig way into the cunning tree for one mastery, while items were changed, and CDR buffed for a lot of ADC itemization...plus the fact they can just auto attack with no mana and be fine.

I'm sorry that you are refusing to see the very blatant ramifications of the changes, but they are smacking people in the face like a dirty diaper, and yet people are still claiming their faces are clean. It baffles me.

mye PPNov 11, 20155 votes

Because AP is the new niche

Darth WestNov 11, 20155 votes

Love how this game is based on ADC's now. I remember the old days when people went Caitlyn mid, etc.

Now this game is based on a repetitive meta.

ADC: Always the same champions.

Top Lane: Always the same champions.

Mid: Always the same champions.

Jungle: Always the same champions.

Support: A decent variety, but you'll be raged at for picking a unknown support or worse reported.

I know this game is competitive, but games are meant for fun as well, out of around 120 champions you'd expect at least a little more variety then the same champions 24/7.

JackMcSnipeyzNov 11, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Love how this game is based on ADC's now. I remember the old days when people went Caitlyn mid, etc.

Now this game is based on a repetitive meta.

ADC: Always the same champions.

Top Lane: Always the same champions.

Mid: Always the same champions.

Jungle: Always the same champions.

Support: A decent variety, but you'll be raged at for picking a unknown support or worse reported.

I know this game is competitive, but games are meant for fun as well, out of around 120 champions you'd expect at least a little more variety then the same champions 24/7.

This season we've seen varus mid, urgot top/mid, and lots of other new cool ideas. Just because everyone else follow the meta doesnt mean you should too. If you complain about meta sheeps yet do nothing to change it, you're part of the meta. I've went lots of time panth and renekton bot, or teemo mid, or Taric top.

pWasHereNov 12, 20155 votes

Statements like these make me wonder why the game isn't dead.

I will play AP mages because they are the class I most enjoy. That isn't going to change this season, regardless of how much hyperbole is shouted.

Zair UmbrasNov 11, 20154 votes

Point me at the part where AP champions got nerfed unfairly to every other class because the only 'nerf' was 5 armor off Zhonya's and a slight price increase that nearly -every- item got.