To Supports
If you take Ignite and you don't take Thunderlord's Decree, you're just gimping your lane. Don't take a defensive keystone with Ignite.
If you take Ignite and you don't take Thunderlord's Decree, you're just gimping your lane. Don't take a defensive keystone with Ignite.
I only very rarely take Ignite as support, so it's not like I'm getting defensive here or something, but I don't follow your logic. What if I'm playing a tank support with Bond of Stone, but want to counteract the healing from a Soraka?
I understand that, honestly. It just frustrates me to no end to see people play with Ignite, but not take Thunderlord's Decree. I think that is what I mean to say, since it's perfectly viable to not take Ignite in a kill lane. I do it all the time. It's fine to take Ignite to counteract the healing of a sustain support in lane, but don't you think it's better to just let someone pick up a Grievous Wounds item?
Off topic, but your name sounds like it's a screen name for Grindr or Growlr or Scruff.
Nope. It's just me.
Expound on this a bit more, please. I get why someone would want to double down on their offensive capabilities, but then some supports either don't proc Thunderlord's Decree reliably or depend on a defensive keystone late game (or even scale better off the bonus resists mastery). I can see arguments for both sides, so why is it adamant that Ignite must be followed with Thunderlord's for you?
It's not that it must be followed. I was a little angry and I poorly worded my topic. It frustrates me to see people take Ignite, but then not TLD. I feel like most supports should fine it easy to proc TLD (Leona, Zyra, Blitzcrank). It doesn't make sense for me that a kill lane wouldn't take TLD. Sometimes, exhaust is necessary for composition, but Ignite makes your lane that more potent. I prefer not to mix my synergy.
The thing that you should consider when taking
is who you are against, and if your team has enough CC.
If your team has so much lock down and there's a
, take
.
If there are assassins that worry you, take
.
I don't think it's connected to what masteries you take TBH.
I don't think masteries have a correlation with summoner spells, if anything.
I disagree. Summoner spells make a big deal in the match up, since Ignite applies Grievous Wounds and reduces the amount Heal will recover. That could decide a lane. Synergy is important.
Wanting to apply grievous wounds is one thing. Wanting to apply more in-lane pressure is another.
Not everyone gets ignite because they want to apply pressure, though is a very common reason to do so.
Some people get ignite just to deny grievous wounds (not the best or worst decision), but play champs/have playstyles that don't find TLD as useful.
I think both fall under the same category. If you take Ignite to deny the sustain, then you're effectively playing aggressive. If you're playing aggressive, then you're probably going to be playing an all-in lane.
It's difficult for me to think of a champion that wouldn't find TLD useful. DTN posted down below that some champions don't use it efficiently and I do agree, but the damage can decide whether or not a kill lane does its job. If a kill lane doesn't do its job, then they've lost the lane.
I don't know, but some people have playstyles where hitting something 3 times isn't as practical as giving people "permanent" MR/Armor all game.
While you are correct, some people prefer having some extra kick of defense all game over something that matters mainly early game, while ignite scales off levels much harder than TLD without stacking AP/AD.
I get where you're coming from, but just because you are making a kill lane and pick up Ignite doesn't mean you can proc Thunderlord's efficiently; namely, someone like Blitzcrank. I usually get Ignite on him (unless I need Exhaust to counter Zed or something), but I never get Thunderlord's because he can't proc it very often.
Blitzcrank can proc it easily. It's just reliant on the hook, and that's when you'd want the damage anyways. By efficiently, do you mean every time it's up? I feel like that's fairly reasonable. Your hook cooldown is a little long, so I can understand why you might want something else on him.
If I'm playing an aggressive Leona because we don't need an exhaust on the team, I'm not taking TLD
What else would you take playing a really aggressive Leona?
Because even though I want to kill stuff, I don't need TLD, and Bond of Stone will help me do my job better in general for the team.
Because even though I want to kill stuff, I don't need TLD, and Bond of Stone will help me do my job better in general for the team.
on a tank melee support like a
when you are gonna be up int the minion wave to proc
and create pressure/ zone i like having grasp because if i go in out of no where when its passive is up it helps with that bit of burst on my damage and might catch them off guard. but as a tanky support bond of stone is more ideal then not.
If your job is to soak damage and have more effective health, Strength of the Ages is better for that purpose. Bond of Stone doesn't outscale Strength of the Ages, in terms of effective health, until 45m+, and I imagine, as Leona, you're going for the early win, right?
I personally think giving up the effective health is worth it for having a much more effective early game, since it's more important to create lane dominance / control which translates into advantages mid game.
[{quoted}](name=Blue Collar Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3KKWOoRy,comment-id=0006000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-20T03:26:26.844+0000)
If your job is to soak damage and have more effective health, Strength of the Ages is better for that purpose. Bond of Stone doesn't outscale Strength of the Ages, in terms of effective health, until 45m+, and I imagine, as Leona, you're going for the early win, right?
I personally think giving up the effective health is worth it for having a much more effective early game, since it's more important to create lane dominance / control which translates into advantages mid game.
well to get a fully stacked stregth of ages will take a long time and by the time you get enough creeps killed on it that extra 300 hp is kinda lost. where as bond of stone is better for team fights because you can soak damage for your team meaning they take reduced damage. along with your w shield and items you get providing tank stats such as
you are more likely to tank more then strength of ages
i looked at some your runes, the one you use for leona dont make sense to me i get it your plat. you are higher rank but when you are in a duo lane wheere you dont level as fast as solo laners scaling runes are as effective as flat runes. i also dont understand the need for the attack speed on the support either im not worried about dps im either all in or all out peeling ect. im not gonna stand and auto alot as a leona. also leona is at her strongest lvl 11ish, has a decent lvl 1 a stronger lvl 3 and a really strong lvl 6 but as far as the length of game goes i find once people can sustain your all in you fall off and you have to kinda be a sacrifice for the team in most fights. as leona i wanna create as much pressure as possible by lvl 12 and push the advantage.
not true it depends on the support and what you are against. if i see a
im gonna go
with
and im gonna all in her
early so i dont kill her and leave her unable to heal the damage so my adc can easily kill her. or if i see a team with alot of tanks or hp stackers say
ill take
every game but if i see alot of dps champs like
ect ill get
.
but as a
i never have 18 points in the cunning tree, im either 12-0-18 or 0-12-18 depending on match up, as a leona i like having the extra 2% damage on abilities, the exposed weakness so when my allies damage the target i engage they do 3% more damage and you add in my passive damage that procs on champs that my allies hit after i do damage to them will increase the damage that champ takes by alot. the free 10ad or 15 ap is just egh i take it over lifestea/spell vamp as leona, but the 2.5% more damage to champs that are cc,rooted, taunted ,slowed ect helps with damage cuz it works for your allies when u cc/slow/root an enemy plus the 3% exposed weakness + my daylight passive 2% more damage from abilities. and typically as
my runes are flat armor reds, 1 armor quint 2 gold per 10 quints, flat hp yellows and cdr blues.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I prefer having the extra damage around the map. I roam a lot. I also take a lot of offensive stats in my runes rather than utility runes. Why would you take CDR runes with the abundance of CDR available in your build path?
I will say that Double-Edged Sword does not increase your passive damage. That damage is attributed to the ally that does do the damage. That being said, Expose Weakness will increase your passive damage.
[{quoted}](name=Blue Collar Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3KKWOoRy,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-08-20T03:04:34.189+0000)
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I prefer having the extra damage around the map. I roam a lot. I also take a lot of offensive stats in my runes rather than utility runes. Why would you take CDR runes with the abundance of CDR available in your build path?
I will say that Double-Edged Sword does not increase your passive damage. That damage is attributed to the ally that does do the damage. That being said, Expose Weakness will increase your passive damage.
cdr early allows me to use my abilities before i buy cdr, if im going all in on a champ like leona and i have double edge sword i do more damage, and im a tank so the 1.5% i get back dont mean alot. my typical build on leona is something like
if i get a early gold lead and i typically sale
mid game. i have also gone items like
when need be
The CDR and mastery pages are preferential at this point. You make good points for them.
However, I would never sell your gold generation item. It is far too important.
[{quoted}](name=Blue Collar Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3KKWOoRy,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-20T03:19:48.654+0000)
The CDR and mastery pages are preferential at this point. You make good points for them.
However, I would never sell your gold generation item. It is far too important.
well im from the old school thought of support i rune gold per 10 runes. so if i get rid of
i still get my gold as i need and i get a better defensive / or offensive item.
You lose the gold you invested in the item. You lose the gold generation the item gives you. You sell the item when you have open inventory slots. It's not efficient.
[{quoted}](name=Blue Collar Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3KKWOoRy,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-20T03:27:26.735+0000)
You lose the gold you invested in the item. You lose the gold generation the item gives you. You sell the item when you have open inventory slots. It's not efficient.
no it is actually, considering you already earned back the gold you invested you get a refund to sale the item and after mid game you arent really going to be in a position to proc the gold passive on it to begin with. there is little to no point to up grade beyond
now as far as my other supports where i get
or
i fully upgrade those due to the passives and stats they give. but as far as
it is great in lane phase but loses its effectiveness afterwards
At the end of my games, my GPM item has generated about 2k in procs / passive. I personally don't think you go out of your way to make use of it. You do not get the full 350g you spent on the item back. You will still lose gold, and you will still lose any further gold you would've generated. Assume you sell it at 10m in, and at 10 gpm in a 30m game, you lose 200g, not to mention all the procs.
[{quoted}](name=Blue Collar Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3KKWOoRy,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-20T03:34:59.847+0000)
At the end of my games, my GPM item has generated about 2k in procs / passive. I personally don't think you go out of your way to make use of it. You do not get the full 350g you spent on the item back. You will still lose gold, and you will still lose any further gold you would've generated. Assume you sell it at 10m in, and at 10 gpm in a 30m game, you lose 200g, not to mention all the procs.
typically i sale after 20 min mark
Please learn the support role properly before commenting on it.
I'll dignify your insult with a response. I've been playing support for two seasons now in D5 elo. What makes you think, aside from my opinion, that I don't have a good understanding of it?
[{quoted}](name=Blue Collar Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3KKWOoRy,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-19T22:42:49.304+0000)
If you take Ignite and you don't take Thunderlord's Decree, you're just gimping your lane. Don't take a defensive keystone with Ignite.
Please learn the support role properly before commenting on it.
who are responding to? the OP? or me?