Riot Said Cassiopeia's Passive Can Go, Its Time

so chad··4 votes·1,057 views

TLDR; In the face of massive hate for the Cassiopeia rework Riot feigned willingness to keep working on Cass, particularly her passive. 9 months later it's still in contention as the worst rework ever and you can barely read a champion rework thread without someone bringing it up. It's time to pay the scaly green piper.

Of course we could remove the passive. I haven't answered those questions so directly, but I've been explaining why the passive is there in the first place, and why I don't think its working as intended. This thread has been particularly fruitful because many people are contributing their ideas of how to make the passive actually contribute add to the champion what it was to supposed to and overall just be more exciting. If even after all this ideation and experimentation the passive still proves to be a dud, we would can it. It's true some people really don't like it, but I think that's exacerbated by a general distaste for the rework, how ive been poorly engaged with the community, and Cassiopeia's overall weak state. So im trying to solve all those problems first and isolate the passive as the only variable, while simultaneously trying to improve it. But yes, while we have high hopes yet, we won't keep something in the game thats universally hated. -RiotStashu http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zuL472BJ-cassiopeia-plans

I'm interested in, mostly, if these changes address the pattern concerns. That's the hard part to pivot on. RE: "How long it's been." I understand that sucks. But that can't do much to effect today's world - I think it's pretty consistently hammered on but not valuable to reaching anything valuable. The primary intractable goal, gameplay-wise, of Casseopia, is to change her power curve from lane bully to [not lane bully]. That's the part that's non-negotiable because it's the unhealthy pattern with the type of kit she has. I think a lot of people (Veigar comparisons) miss this point, and I can't say much but "sorry guys." Other than that, nothing else is non-negotiable. Some things are harder to change if they need VFX or animation support, but the above reason is also why we won't "revert" Cass. The passive is a chore - OK - then how can we make it satisfying? What specifically makes it a chore (I've not been in all the threads, so forgive my ignorance to what's been said in its entirety)? Knowing what sucks, rather than it sucks, will help me understand the pattern issues with this stuff. -Morello http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/2ExPaIic-about-cassiopeia-and-the-recent-pbe-changes?show=rundown

7 Comments

Oerba No Naja3 votes

remove this retarded passive , this passive is just here to compensate all her nerfs when you got a rabadon +500 stacks ; after removing this sh*it cassio needs a q with at least 0.7 ap ratio , a w with doubled base damages and a ulti with bettter base dmg , and ofc a nerf of her twin fang dps because her first main source dps should be her poison and her twinfangs in second place .

OpTicDyNO2 votes

I am curious about how her passive is bad other than it just being a seemingly random number of buffs. It seems she has one of the most beneficial passives in the game that scales incredibly well into the late game.

so chad1 votes

TLDR; some riot employee came up with this passive and forced it onto Cassiopeia who was pretty much the polar opposite of the passive in terms of power curve and flavor/feel. Maybe its not such an awful passive in a void, but it belongs nowhere near Cass.

Basically everything that is part of Cassiopeia's passive used to just be part of her kit. You didn't have to wait a half hour to be strong and suffer through ridiculously clunky gameplay (like Q being on a 4 second cooldown) to start contributing to the win. With all of these amazing buffs you get from the passive you might think Cassiopeia eventually becomes godlike... but she doesn't. As a matter of fact she does less damage per game than before her rework until 40 minutes in, and even then just barely starts to creep ahead. In addition to the chore-ish nature of the passive you also have to consider that Cass players were accustomed to playing one of the strongest early game champs in the League. Whereas other champs got reworks that reinforced their gameplay patterns Riot seemed to think the only thing important about playing Cass was tapping Q-E-E-E and gave her power curve a complete 180.

The passive is also just the ultimate symbol of Riot's f-you to Cassiopeia players because concurrently with the Cass update Riots corporate approved buzzwords of the month were "hidden power", "burden of knowledge", and "readability". They spent a lot of time on the forums talking about how they want to eliminate hidden power in LoL and even used hidden power to justify removing her original, far superior passive Deadly Cadence... then dropped this piece of work on us. If there is any example of hidden power in this game it is Aspect of the Serpent. Why can Cass keep her Q on me permanently when she couldn't a moment ago? Why is Cass all of a sudden gaining life from her E? What is a snake lady who poisons her enemies getting buffed like crazy from it? None of it makes any sense at any level.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

Wasn't the old Cassiopeia broken? I never played her but people just said she was either useless if she didn't get ahead, or she was too strong if she got ahead.

so chad1 votes

TLDR; IMO no, because she always had room to be outplayed, was always super squishy, and was limited in the end game due to being mostly single target DPS.

I guess that depends what you consider to be broken, but no not really. She was no stronger than say Malzahar/Brand/Karthus when ahead. No matter how much damage you pumped out with old Cass you were still squishy with no good escape. She was pretty bad if you fell behind, but that is the price you pay for doing poorly with a lane bully. She was also not a great teamfighter due to being super squishy, low mobility, and mostly single target oriented.

To me, Riven/Ryze/Diana were great examples of broken champs (Im talking historically, not necessarily right now). If you got even a slight gold lead you really took off because you gained both kill potential AND survivability from the same items. If a Diana picked up a NLR on her first back and you were stuck with a blasting rod it was curtains for you thanks to her AP scaling shield. Even if you outplayed them chances were you couldn't finish them off in a fight because of how beefy they became when building offensively, but if you could dodge a Noxious Blast or two versus Cass she was pretty much dead in the water whether or not she had an item advantage.

She had a few really oppressive matchups, like whooping the shit out of Katarina or Swain, but at the same time it was nearly impossible to win lane versus Lux or Fizz.

Old Cass would have done just fine with the two QoL updates (ult hitting people directly in front of her, Twin Fang poison detection on cast rather than hit) and a couple of balancing changes to make up for it (increase Twin Fang cooldown to 0.7s to keep it consistent with on hit detection, increase mana cost of Q so she couldn't spam it endlessly in lane).

Nagma1 votes

cassio is really strong now if you master her but her dps source is only her e , and that sucks . cassio needs a better ratios on her q , better base dmg on her w and a rewarding ultimate ( since its skilled and kinda hard to hit ) , actually she is kinda fine but cassio has some issues . the only good part on her rework its her sustain dmg , it gives her a better duelist potential and survivability .

Stez0072 votes

And guess who those dumbasses put to work on Fiora? Same idiot.

How's Fiora doing these days?

Riot does not learn, does not fire incompetent morons--probably because the idiocy only gets worse as you go up the ranks.

It's almost funny how stupid they are. Mostly sad, though. I pity them.

More from Gameplay

More by so chad