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Lessons Unlearned: Why Runeglaive Misses the Mark

so chad·6/26/2015, 12:36:11 AM·18 votes·3,399 views

Runeglaive was created as a tool to allow AP champs to clear the jungle who could not previously. This is directly cited by Riot as the reason it replaced Magus – Magus simply gave a little extra power to AP champs who could already clear the jungle without it.

By looking at the design of Runeglaive we can see Riot’s strategy: add AoE damage to kits that lack it to speed up jungle clears and relieve some of the burden of mana. However, you get none of these bonuses until far too late.

Lesson Unlearned: Essence Reaver The LoL fanbase was buzzing when Essence Reaver was announced. Finally AD Casters like Jayce, Graves, and Ezrael were going to dominate lane by spamming spells rather than right clicking. It didn’t take long for the community to label Essence Reaver a complete dud. Hiding mana sustain behind 3,800 gold makes it utterly useless – by the time you can complete the item you no longer need the mana sustain. Yet here we are with a mana sustain option gated behind, realistically, 3,000 gold (you’re buying boots, at least 5 pots, and probably a couple wards before you complete Runeglaive). Even worse, this item is intended for use by gold starved Junglers, meaning it takes even LONGER to achieve than if a laner needed 3,000 gold for it.

Lesson Unlearned: Support Itemization Riot knocked it out of the park with the changes to Support itemization (and also Quill Coat and Bami’s Cinder). Tanky supports can get beefy from level 1. Poke supports can trade a little harder from level 1. Sustain supports can keep up the healing a little longer from level 1. Yet AP junglers are expected to fail abysmally for typically 7 levels until they get enough gold to finally upgrade to Runeglaive. Perhaps AP champs don’t need access to an AoE proc and mana sustain at level 1 – after all Riot also specifically mentioned that they believe it is fair for mages to have a really rough time early on in the jungle. But they need support far earlier than 3,000 gold. Tanks got that support in the form of Bami’s Cinder, and previously Quill Coat.

Possible Solution Runeglaive needs a baby Runeglaive (Runepike?) as part of its build path rather than Sheen, which is honestly a very poor item to force AP champs into buying en route to Runeglaive. Frankly, I would prefer for Riot to finally come to the realization that the jungle is a LANE and not a ROLE and add a different starting item that each role can take into the jungle starting at level 1.

56 Comments

FlashnFuse6/26/2015, 1:04:31 AM5 votes

Baby essence reaver/runeglaive: 10cdr and a mana on hit(or on sheen-style proc) passive. No ad or ap. 640-820 gold, builds out of a fairy charm or something. I think that would smooth out the build path of both runeglaive and essence reaver.

Knight SoIaire 6/26/2015, 12:57:18 PM5 votes

question to rito tho

why is it a sheen proc look at ludens ... an item made for CASTERS not AUTOATACKERS so it activates when you cast skills

NorthernDruid6/26/2015, 11:54:52 AM3 votes

It's Spellblade is also subpar compared to the alternatives it's competing with (mainly IBG and Lichbane). Because it lacks the utility and tankiness of Iceborn, while not comparing with Lichbane's scaling and lacking it's movement speed.

It's this weird in-between item which doesn't suit a lot of champions who can use IBG or Lichbane effectively.

It's best use is freeing up a slot that you'd usually use on lichbane in return for lower scaling.

Rinky Dinky6/26/2015, 3:10:49 PM2 votes

honestly, the real problem I think is how bad runeglaive's stats are.

Snake Town6/26/2015, 2:08:33 AM2 votes

I wish they would have kept magus along with runeglaive, magus benefited a fair amount of ap junglers more than runeglaive does.

FirstSergeantBim6/26/2015, 4:40:27 AM2 votes

It's been two days since the patch came out. You haven't even given it a chance. There are significant changes coming to AP Itemization as well, so you just don't have the information that you need in order to make the assessment that you're currently making. The jungle isn't a lane, it's a completely different environment and should not be treated as such.

As far as I'm concerned, Runeglaive hit the nail on the head. I love the concept because they took an existing item (Spellblade) and altered it to incorporate AoE spell effects. There is nothing else like it in the game and the very nature of the item is revolutionary which opens the door for so many more possibilities in building a champion (see AP Ezreal). It makes me look forward to future changes coming to items like Poacher's Knife or Devourer.

If Runeglaive isn't working as well as they would like, then all Riot needs to do is change a few numbers or incorporate the future changes to AP Itemization. Otherwise, the concept is solid and doesn't need tinkering.

UPfreely6/26/2015, 9:04:58 PM1 votes

the funny part is that its good on the junglers that didnt need any help and still crap for mages. Udyr ect

Silents4296/26/2015, 5:49:03 PM1 votes

by the time you can complete the item you no longer need the mana sustain.

Er? I never got this, I tend to be able to finish my jungle item before 10 minutes, or around 12 minutes if it's a slow game. By this time I would still need the item to speed up my clearing and minimize the amount of mana I take up to do it because more then likely I am trying to speed up and help my team somewhere.

I am not quite sure people understand, but Riot can't just make an item that gives you a great first clear, junglers have to be gated to some extent, and giving a role that has literally control of the entire map in a sense, a ton of power is a bad idea.

I want to also point out a lot of AP junglers never really stop needing the blue buff, so I still don't quite get this quote, but maybe now they can share it if they must or they don't become completely useless without it now.

Another common complaint is that it's late game power pales in comparison to the other AP items, the same ones all getting buffed heavily. And honestly peoples solutions of just upping the AP don't really know what they are talking about, Diana is already at this tipping point where she can be the next 4.20 Warwick (Not as insane) and giving them a jungle item that helps her clear, mana, along with a ton of damage is retarded.

Truth is, you never really stop needing mana sustain, and while I think the item would have done well to have some mana regen, most people are just trying to compare it to what cinderhulk did for the tank role instead of actually trying to make the item work.

4nth0l0gy6/26/2015, 7:45:49 PM1 votes

I like your ending remark. Jungle may require a very different mindset from other lanes, but it is still one jungler against one jungler with monsters to contest, and it still has a lot of diversity, even and especially at early levels.

Do you think AP junglers would benefit more from mana regen or from on-hit effects early?

LilxPaprika6/26/2015, 12:48:20 AM1 votes

http://i.imgur.com/xZAL3M6.jpgjpg small edit ... didn't do the math right in pic be more like 65 +3 per level.

it'll take whichever equation deals the most, would function much like warwick's q.

check out this post i made: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EAsdAMg8-runeglaive-and-jungle-items-solution

let me know what you think

The runeglaive icon might have a wand/staff thats a bit more ornate looking to help differentiate the two.

The 1600 gold portion would be sellable at discount or no penalty cost. Such that you can switch it whenever you deem it necessary. Just keep in mind you won't clear as well or have extra gold per camp however, so do so come a time whenyou would be able to clear fine with late game items and might find yourself with ample gold, especially since around the 40 min mark things are more centered around big objectives/team fights which is where the bulk of your gold will come from at this point.