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Why is lissandra not seen more often?

StairCasexd··20 votes·7,805 views

So liss was/is free this week and i didn't really see anyone picking her (only saw 1 liss on the enemy team). So I thought that means she must sucks since people just jump to the most OP or charecter they see often. So I decided to play her once yesterday and she seems pretty strong, she has a point and click stun that's basically a death sentence and says lol to adcs. I landed against a yasuo, spammed my q to harass and at level 6 I literally just Walked up to him... Pressed R and then q e w ignite and he died. The other team had a fed Vayne with 12 kills while I was at 8. Vayne tumbled and took half my hp in one auto and then I just did the same thing I did to yasuo and she died (funny that if I were playing Katarina I would've died, 10/10 assassin class). Her aoe root and point and click stun says lol to the idea of tower diving her since you'll just be committing suicide by doing that. Her E could be used as a juke in the river (a bit like a LeBlanc W). She also does a lot of damage, if she cases her ultimate on herself, it could stop what would've been a garanteed death from a burst champ. Is this just because of the meta or will this just be another tristina?

49 Comments

MLDzXnRRR23 votes

How many team comps need short ranged mage with AOE CC. It's the same reason why Annie isn't that popular in high elo. You will lose lane vs champs with better ranged.

ejsama8 votes

this comment made me realise why I don't pick annie at all

ff CoSmo16 votes

As a Lissandra main myself i'd say i also sometimes wonder why. Well, she is still picked sometimes in professional play, and that's where people usually look at and try her out (fotm enthusiasts).

The issue with Liss is one: She's teamplay reliant. You cant carry the game alone. I will come back to this. First of all, Liss despite being quite simple on paper she has quite a lot of depth, which isnt mechanics related, but decision making related. When it is worth to trade, when you can all in, optimal damage output in a teamfight, itemization. The latter is very misunderstood in my opinion. Liss with RoA scales well into late game, but she thrives in early - mid game. Her mid game is super important for her to transit smoothly into late teamfights. Liss needs items in order to do damage. RoA is the slowest item - alongside Archangel's - to build up damage. Try to rush a Morello and Hourglass. And here's where the difficult part begins. Going glass cannon on Lissandra is not recommended unless you gain enough experience on all matchups and you improve at your best the decision making with the champion. If you do something wrong, there's little you can do, as to deal damage, you need to be near your enemies. This becomes close to optimal the more you practise with her. And that's where most people fail. Practising extensively a single champion is boring/tiring. Especially if they fail 2-3 times at first. And now the most important aspect of her gameplay. Her impact in a teamfight is crucial. I have won countless of games myself because aside of being fed i knew my role in the tf. You need to go in with a perfect timing, catch as many opponents as you can, prolly self-cast ult to deal as much AoE damage as possible and protect yourself, then use some spells and Hourglass. These 3-4 seconds are game changing. And rely on the competence of your teammates. If you do your role, but others dont know how to follow up, there's little more you can do. Especially on games where you are not stomping/getting stomped and the better teamfight comp wins. That is why she's difficult, in my opinion, to play optimally. Not hard to play averagely, but she struggles a lot if you dont acknowledge all the necessary stuff to succeed with her. And that is why few people play her.

PS: Every champ has counters, but if you know how to play one at full extent, you can beat everyone.

Weathered8 votes

She's difficult to be very good at, and generally isn't as flashy and "OP" as some other champs available, so she often isn't picked.

Poske4 votes

She is really not difficult to be very good at

She is not le blanc,riven,yas etc

She is quite simple

She is OP against right teamcomps so actually extremly balanced

sit kid7 votes

I think what he means is that she doesnt click to nuke you alone unless she is massively ahead like most other meta mages do right now.

Her being simple is also a reason why she isnt played more often. Low satisfaction aside from her ultimate. Low range, low damage but a lot of CC on the other hand.

Speaking for myself, i like dealing damage

Sire Hippington6 votes

At high elo's, it's because her damage/tankiness is to low to make up for the low range and **VERY telegraphed **gapcloseing. You can't even dream about getting that ult on a priority target without getting balls deep into their team(and even for that you usually need flash), which means you need zhonya's to not get popped imidiatly. However, with an early zhonya's, your burst is pretty weak, so you do need good follow-up to kill a target. And if you want just reliable CC as a setup for good followup damage, a tank like mao simply is the better option.

She can work well as counter to squishy melees like yasuo(i find her to be one of the best picks vs pant aswell, you just shove him in and harras from save range and post 6 he can't all in you in any way while beeing a free kill for your jungler.), but most of the time her strengths do not compensate for her weaknesses once you face opponents that play around that. And as a counter to squishy melee's, malz and anivia both are stronger atm.

Weasel Kensei2 votes

This is the correct post.

I was also going to say to the topic creator to try her in ranked and see how it goes...

The topic creator seems to play primarily in Blind Pick, and no offense but that que is almost completely filled with people who are new and dont qualify for ranked/normal draft, or are just dicking off for funziez and being polite enough no to do it in ranked. What works there should be taken with a grain of salt.

I like Liss, she has some good deletion potential, and is a reasonable counter pick to some assassins and melees: Zed, Fizz, Kat, even Yasuo. The problem is the price you pay for decent laning against them you pay for in range. She can delete its true, but you can do the same things with Lux or Veigar and do it from much further away. Annie has less mobility, but a bit more range, and can disable more than one person with her stun, its part of why you see her more than Liss.

The short of it is, there are better versions of what she has to offer...

Teémò4 votes

item 3814 item 3140 She's a decent top laner, but if you believe that power creep exists in league then it can be really difficult seeing her being compared to mobile champs Kalista Camille in 1 vs 1 where her E can feel like only a engage where she can be cc'd from using her E to disengage.

Mens Hair Club4 votes

any tank does her job better

M3RCENARY2 votes

She's not a tank, so what's your point.

Glory974 votes

I don't think lissandra is good at the moment. You got a very good matchup against yasuo, but lissandra struggles against most of the current midlane meta champs, bc she is short ranged and her all in doesnt have enough damage if the enemy laner has a defensive summoner spell. Lissandra scales well into lategame, but early game snowball champions are needed in the current meta.

WoonStruck3 votes

Need of a frontline.

Only good vs assassins.

Low late-game waveclear.

QSS shuts down her gimmick after mid-game.

If you're going to play Liss, might as well play Vlad instead. Or even Syndra.

Solidair32 votes

Lissandra, in my opinion, is best used as an anti-assassin. Her use outside of that role can be limited

majorashash2 votes

I think she is in a good place, despite her passive being immensely lackluster. I feel like if riot decided to actually work on a good new passive for her and changed her mana costs she would be a solid pick again. I used to main lissandra but moved on to other champs because as mentioned in an earlier comment she is incredibly team reliant, her all in makes her beyond vulnerable (unless lets say, she ults herself and chains zhonyas). But if your team does not engage as well its basically a death. I think making her E cooldown refresh if she hits several enemy champs with her ult would be a great mechanic or something so her all ins dont feel quite as suicidal. Unless you're building straight AP with her, her damage isn't amazing, but I will admit with all the CC she has and her Q cooldown it can be easy to duel some champs. I love building her tanky with a void staff or deathcap and CDR because she becomes more of a utility tank and I love that role for her.

Catastrop2 votes

All of these paragraphs when all that needs to be said is, she's just outclassed. Plain and simple.

Sohleks2 votes

She's kind of boring imo. And she is kind of limited to a melee range counter champ.

She's like Annie but not as fun. Boring personality. Kit is so much safer and less cheesy. Relatively tame damage. Makes me sleepy.

Falcon Of Death2 votes

her mana costs are retardedly high early is the only reason i dont play her

KoKoboto2 votes

She's weak. Her kit is about bursting one guy but than you can't do that with the insane shields and heals.

Also enemy built crucible? Well there goes your entire ultimate.

tl;dr: She sucks.

Milan Radić1 votes

Bro I made new disscosion with poll. Link: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/UApMBeQh-what-about-lissandras-rework-of-buffs

Oerba No Naja1 votes

Say bro but get down voted by OP with no reply , ahah boards in a nutshell .

Meep Man1 votes

She's a Control Mage, which as a role isn't usually as attention grabbing for people looking to play a different champion unless they are OP.

DJMason881 votes

Because she doesn't perform well against anyone who isn't melee. Her niche is an anti-assassin, anti-fighter type. Play her against any competent mage and then judge her.

BremerdanGorst1 votes

I play Lissandra once in a blue moon, and I often wonder the same thing. I think it might be the same thing as Annie, opponents can play around her if they're careful. Even if Lissandra has her E, it's quite telegraphed.

DISHONORABLE XD1 votes

Because Lissandra is garbage tier , picking this shitt mid will lose you the game . but top u can be an R bot and hope to get carried .

Jeanne fan club1 votes

ap itemization has made her damage considerably worse than any other midlaner. if you try to go in with E without using the Ult lock on before blinking trick you will get 2 shot by an adc.

The only way to be useful on liss is to build all defensive ap items, but those are expensive and not really that effective when adcs will 3 shot you regardless.

I play her a lot lately in ranked. relative to other ap mids she is not that bad, but relative to most other champions in the game she is pretty bad.

M3RCENARY2 votes

You need to harass them down, not just run in with your E. E is an escape not an initiator. Her sustained damage with 2 items is not the best in the game, but its pretty decent when you consider you can lock the enemy down fairly easily. The threat of your ult is usually enough to make players cautious about fighting you, so you can move around and q through their minions. when they're low then all in. Lissandra is the all in mid to Trist's bot.

XxxLumberJackxxX1 votes

Orianna and lulu both do her job better

M3RCENARY1 votes

lulu can't melt you hp bar, she's more of a pain than a threat.True orianna can burst, but I'd take LIss in teamfights, CC, kiting, laning, and escape over ori anyday.

General Esdeath 1 votes

I think it's because people feel like her passive isn't good.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Because she is one of only 3 non tanks in the game that is still gated through mana the other 2 being Bard and Soraka

Skins Project1 votes

Dude

Sivir Nocturne Do i have to say ANYTHING more?

Sure sivir has a spell shield that gives back mana, but it's still not spammable to any degree.

BoilTheOil1 votes

idk shes annoying tho (probably since i play MasterYi / Kayn and hate cc)

Yordle Xayah1 votes

Cause everyone would start complaining about her regardless of her actual power.

Cocho1 votes

its so funny that you mentioned Kat, because I have 1,100,000 mastery points on katarina and recently started playing lissandra.

God it feels so good to just 100-0 squishies while their CCd lmao. So many kills I would have never gotten as an assassin.

The other team had a fed Vayne with 12 kills while I was at 8. Vayne tumbled and took half my hp in one auto and then I just did the same thing I did to yasuo and she died (funny that if I were playing Katarina I would've died, 10/10 assassin class).

Just on point

Armored Yokai1 votes

You can hard carry with lissandra, you need to be good and know her mechanics well. Lissandra is a very strong champ but easy to screw up with if you make a bad play

Infernal Ironic1 votes

She counters assassins

Assassins are pointless atm

M3RCENARY1 votes

She has the CC to counter anything. her W is a ranged AoE. I can't even tell you how many times I win 1v2 trades when I get ganked because of that W. W them then e out. boom safe failed gank and if you were any good you'd have hit a few q's and done way more damage than the enemies.

Noblewind1 votes

Outside of that potential burst of damage you can do to 1 person, she's pretty boring to play and not that great damage wise.

When playing her I've felt she falls off pretty hard later in the game, because the reliability of her AOE damage becomes low relative to other mages.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Lissandra stuggles against more range and anything that survives her burst-

That´s because her damage isn't all that great and her base stats are kept weak due to her CC chaining ability.

Scalings and base damage are both mediocre, and getting killed or falling behind in exp causes you to fall of harder than you would on other champs.

She´s fairly punishing to play and rewards arent all that great which is causing her to be relatively unplayed, that's my understanding anyway.

M3RCENARY1 votes

Well her burst isn't great because she's not really meant to be bursty. She can one hit combo squishies mid to late, so idk what your definition if burst is, but she does have pretty great sustained damage with her Q, which is off cd every 2.5 seconds at lvl 5 with the runes i use.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

You sir, have replied to a comment that is 7 months old xD

Things have changed since then.

It used to be that even with a combo of Q-E-W-R-Q-AA could not kill a opponent at lvl 6, and she was so squishy that even a single rotation from the meta picks at the time could just blow her up.

Things seem to have gotten a bit better for her since then due to the lowered base stats and changes to items and meta, this ignite change recently also seems like its beneficial for her all ins.

M3RCENARY1 votes

It just feels bad to have so many seemingly negative reviews of one of my favourites, im a little hurt is all.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Well, at the time she was sitting at a truly awful win and playrate, most high level mains had given up on her and almost all her matchups had negative winrates, several sat at like 40% which is truly awful.

It's on the level where an Ashe tries to 1v1 Zed, talon or Rengar.

So yeah, she was truly deep in shit, but things have changed and she actually sits at 51% winrate.....even if her playrate is still low, and she has been moving up even if slowly.

This shows that her mains are finding success with her, which proves that with enough practice you can indeed win and do well with her.

Quite different from before^^

Stevev451 votes

She was fun when DFG was an item. I think she was one of the main red herrings for deleting the item.

A Bagelle1 votes

Well sir, I actually used to main Liss, and yes she is op, I also wonder why some people dont play her but its their decision, not trying to show hate :p but i do agree with you

Aatrox Lord1 votes

She has a crap ton of cc and has a rather good damage output but I’ve been thinking of getting like a lich bane or something to make my autos deal more damage

M3RCENARY1 votes

Most of what I'm seeing has to do with her range. I play LIssandra a lot, and I can tell you that I'm fairly confident i can win any matchup in mid. It's more to do with positioning than anything else. Her q gets bonus range if it hits something, so you play around enemy minions, constantly poking the enemy through their minions while behind your own. despite her short range she is incredibly safe. I never use her e except as an escape or waveclear tool. At q level 5 the cooldown is like 2.5 seconds, and once you get your RoA, Zhonyas it does more than people expect it to, especially when its coming at you every 2.5 seconds. I rarely lose a lane or a game as Lissandra. her teamfights are incredible as you can ult yourself if you get into trouble and then still have a zhonyas on top of that, or ult an enemy and they become deleted by your team instantly. imo there are no mid laners that have the same cc, escape, and sustained damage. Any of her weaknesses can be compensated for in items. I suppose a really really good azir would dismantle her but even he is easy to manouver around, just get away from his soldiers. And as for the people who question her damage well, I just don't think many people have seen a high skill Lissandra player, so it's kind of hard to talk about something you have no experience with.

LOOΠΔTIC1 votes

Atm, I'm unranked. Lissandra was free some weeks ago and ever since then I have played her. I win lane most of the time with her, and that's because almost nobody knows how to counter her, I was up against a Katarina once. She was a Katarina main and spammed her mastery emote all the time. But she had never played against a Lissandra. So I just poked her all the time when she was farming and when she jumped in I just rooted her with my w. I got fed and we won the game.

I think Lissandra is a really good pick in low elo or even if you're unranked. Out of all my Lissandra games I've only seen 2 people go summoner 1 , which tells a lot lol. But as other people have said, Lissandra is a really good pick against assasains. I love to play her against Zed :D

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