Did it get Harder to climb or are there even more worse players now?

39041022DEL1·Mar 9, 2016·15 votes·3,213 views

I Know people feed sometimes, but holy moly not every game... literally every game.

48 Comments

NidelkhaMar 9, 201612 votes

Climbing is hard AF now, no matter how well you do or if you go 20/0, the season 6 meta is sooo retarded that it's the comp that always wins, not so much skill anymore...

IqqiMar 9, 20168 votes

Nid here is kind of right. It is a combination of a few things.

Even though we are weeks into the new season, Riots system still throws everyone into the same bucket and tells them to go. When a majority of your player base is in silver and bronze, depending on your own individual skill it statistically will feel like you are playing with terrible people. Because you are.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution/na

NA: 38.5% of the player base is in bronze. 37.8% is in silver.

Since Riot throws everyone back into the same bucket everyone is forced to play with people and against people on a huge spectrum of different skill. The bronze players have to play against people much better than them as they slowly sink back to bronze, and the others have to play with and against such players as they look to separate themselves again. This takes a really long time. Statistically if you are a higher rank, you typically play alot more games than someone who is in bronze 5. More often than not. That isn't to say games played is a measure of skill, but we all know how long it takes to rank up. So we have people in Bronze who need to get back down there, but they are the largest % of players and they do not play as many games. So it takes them awhile. I already have a huge rant on just how flawed Riot's rank reset system is and how it directly leads to a loss of revenue so I will save you the pain.

Right now we have the combination of the player skill spectrum, but we also have the issue with severe in game balance. In an attempt to shorten the length of games, Riot has instead greatly increased champion spike damage as well as failed to lower the length of games and created an environment were there is a clear leader in a game in 10 minutes, and the other 20-30 is the opposing team turtling on the off-chance the enemy team makes a mistake to give up their lead.

SkiasMar 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Nid here is kind of right. It is a combination of a few things.

Even though we are weeks into the new season, Riots system still throws everyone into the same bucket and tells them to go. When a majority of your player base is in silver and bronze, depending on your own individual skill it statistically will feel like you are playing with terrible people. Because you are.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution/na

NA: 38.5% of the player base is in bronze. 37.8% is in silver.

Since Riot throws everyone back into the same bucket everyone is forced to play with people and against people on a huge spectrum of different skill. The bronze players have to play against people much better than them as they slowly sink back to bronze, and the others have to play with and against such players as they look to separate themselves again. This takes a really long time. Statistically if you are a higher rank, you typically play alot more games than someone who is in bronze 5. More often than not. That isn't to say games played is a measure of skill, but we all know how long it takes to rank up. So we have people in Bronze who need to get back down there, but they are the largest % of players and they do not play as many games. So it takes them awhile. I already have a huge rant on just how flawed Riot's rank reset system is and how it directly leads to a loss of revenue so I will save you the pain.

Right now we have the combination of the player skill spectrum, but we also have the issue with severe in game balance. In an attempt to shorten the length of games, Riot has instead greatly increased champion spike damage as well as failed to lower the length of games and created an environment were there is a clear leader in a game in 10 minutes, and the other 20-30 is the opposing team turtling on the off-chance the enemy team makes a mistake to give up their lead.

This right here.

WukongMainMar 9, 20166 votes

i feel like its just the snowball. It builds up much quicker now....allowing the enemy to more easily further their lead once they get one. The snowball.....Cannot be stopped...

KarlyrMar 9, 20161 votes

It can. But people can't wrap their mind around the idea of tower hugging. Rather trade until you are 0-10

Stomp games will stop when the people that are able to tower hug and understand small advantages will climb and those who doesn't fall.

TormentulaMar 9, 20163 votes

The problem I have with people that say "just tower hug" is how many champion in the meta that can currently tower dive. Almost everything has some easy escape from under tower to get in and get out... whether it'd be parrying the tower shot ( Fiora ), blocking it ( Braum TahmKench , Jax , Pantheon ), cancelling it ( Bard , Elise , Fizz , item 3157 ), just jumping out ( Zed , Leblanc , Thresh , Kalista (ult) , Katarina , Fizz ), just generally being bulky and not really care for tower shots, ( Garen , Nasus , Chogath , Yasuo shield) and finally just flat out range that pokes deep under tower, ( Quinn , Caitlyn , Jhin , Morgana , Blitzcrank , Lux , Zed , Nidalee ) . Then there's you having 50% hp, and still casually farming and suddenly they flash+aa+ignite and you're dead before you even exist the tower range.

Honestly towers are just a joke in this meta. Melt too fast and do no damage and so easy to avoid.

KyroRayneMar 9, 20161 votes

Fiora can't parry it, Jax can't dodge it, any champ with Zhonya's can do that, Those are assassins they get in and out quick, then tanks who are supposed to "tank" turret shots, if the adc can hit you under turret then it's because you're in front of it instead of behind it.

TormentulaMar 9, 20162 votes

And why should an assassin just be able to get in and get out instantly that easy? That makes laning against an assassin extremely tough since you know that tower is not going to prevent them from diving you and getting out alive. What did "tower hugging" accomplish in preventing a fizz dive? Is that intentional feeding? Is that assassins being broken snowballers? Or is that just towers being almost irrelavant in higher elo when people really don't care about them.

"Uh it's an assassin duh, that's his job" well rip lane then, better hope the jgler is reliable because your lane lost otherwise at teampreview once it hits midgame.

ff4skMar 9, 20161 votes

Only assassins able to dive a tower and get out with a kill are kat, fizz(?), and zed. I don't think any other assassin can do that without dying after the 3rd tower hit.

I think it's less to do with towers being weak and more to do with everyone dealing higher amounts of damage than they should be dealing.

So the real issue here is balance. There's none of it.

KyroRayneMar 9, 20161 votes

If you lane against an assassin, you usually choose another assassin or a champ that can shield against the burst and still do damage (aka Lux, Lulu, and Orianna). Don't over extend in lane and have your jungler gank for you. It's a team game, and everyone needs to help out to win.

If you get counter picked for it, take Barrier instead of Ignite.

ff4skMar 9, 20161 votes

yeah sure tanks are supposed to tank but how come they can tank AND deal enough damage to 4 shot an adc or mid laner with their full health WHILE under tower? The whole game is currently unbalanced but tanks seem to take the cake for being the most unbalanced

KyroRayneMar 9, 20161 votes

Which tanks can do that?

Fed over leveled tanks vs underfed underleveled squishies can have the squishy killed in 4 shots.

Bruisers can 4 shot ADCs because they're supposed to. Bruisers have no gap closers which allows them to have damage and build tanky damage.

SpoofghoulMar 10, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Bruisers can 4 shot ADCs because they're supposed to. Bruisers have no gap closers which allows them to have damage and build tanky damage.

fixed it for ya

KyroRayneMar 10, 20161 votes

None of those are bruisers. At all. They're played as tanky champs, but aren't tanks or bruisers. They're assassins itemizing into the meta created by Riot.

Fiona and Yi are AD assassins. Akali and Ekko are AP assassins.

That's how their kits are reflected. They get no bonuses from building HP or resistances.

SkiasMar 10, 20162 votes

{quoted}

None of those are bruisers. At all. They're played as tanky champs, but aren't tanks or bruisers. They're assassins itemizing into the meta created by Riot.

Fiona and Yi are AD assassins. Akali and Ekko are AP assassins.

That's how their kits are reflected. They get no bonuses from building HP or resistances.

You can say they arent but currently for all intensive purposes they are. That is the reality. This is what you have to be able to fight.

KyroRayneMar 10, 20161 votes

Not to be picky, but "Intents and purposes". Just for future reference :)

Fiora, Yi, Akali, and Ekko will most likely be taken care of with the Assassin Rework either at the end of the year or mid next year (No, Riot hasn't mentioned a timeframe or if they're even doing it. I'm just assuming so because of how they've done ADCs, Bruisers, and now Mages). Yes, that's a long time to wait, but the meta changes a lot. Riot also has a lot on their plate as well because they have the Mages to update in June/July, the Supports need an update, and game balance.

Now, Fiora is currently being nerfed on the PBE. Yi is a feast or famine champ in this meta (mostly feast because some people just still can't understand how to shut yi down early), Akali and Ekko can build full tank and still have damage because of their low cd's and high base damage. Their base damage just needs to take a slight hit with a buff to ratios.

SkiasMar 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Which tanks can do that?

Fed over leveled tanks vs underfed underleveled squishies can have the squishy killed in 4 shots.

Bruisers can 4 shot ADCs because they're supposed to. Bruisers have no gap closers which allows them to have damage and build tanky damage.

Jarvan disagrees, as does riven, jax, panth, illaoi, do I need to keep going?

KyroRayneMar 10, 20161 votes

Jarvan Primary Role Tank Secondary Role Fighter Illaoi Primary Role Fighter Secondary Role Tank Jarvan and Illaoi (barely) are the only ones on your list who meet my requirements of TANK. From there, THEY HAVE TO BE FED AND OVERLEVELED TO KILL THE SQUISHY. They don't have the base damage to 4 shot any squishy otherwise.

Riven Primary Role Fighter Secondary Role Assassin Jax Primary Role Fighter Secondary Role Assassin Pantheon Primary Role Fighter Secondary Role Assassin

SkiasMar 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Jarvan Primary Role Tank Secondary Role Fighter Illaoi Primary Role Fighter Secondary Role Tank Jarvan and Illaoi (barely) are the only ones on your list who meet my requirements of TANK. From there, THEY HAVE TO BE FED AND OVERLEVELED TO KILL THE SQUISHY. They don't have the base damage to 4 shot any squishy otherwise.

Riven Primary Role Fighter Secondary Role Assassin Jax Primary Role Fighter Secondary Role Assassin Pantheon Primary Role Fighter Secondary Role Assassin

Jarvan needs 1 item to e q r a squishy and delete it. Every bruiser has high base damages and can easily mush carries. Shit, even maokais all in combo will likely kill a carry with 3 abilities.

CatastropMar 10, 20161 votes

I'm sick of seeing this. Tanks aren't the ones doing this, it's fighters and juggernauts. You ever see a Braum Gragas Maokai or Shen kill a squishy like you say? I'm guessing no, what you're seeing are the champions who are meant to build tank with a few damage items doing this. Darius DrMundo Fiora Garen JarvanIV Malphite etc.

OrangesilkMar 10, 20161 votes

"Meta champions"

Cho, Nasus, Yasuo, Jhin.

I didn't choose the bronze lyfe.

Mog the MightyMar 10, 20162 votes

This happens in so many matches. Someone dies, and instead of changing their tactic they just charge out trying the same thing over and over... and over. It's this strange mentality like, 'I'm Pantheon, no way can this Nasus out damage me, even with 500 stacks and 6 kills on me'.

EddardStark84Mar 10, 20161 votes

That's not the way it works anymore in this meta...tower diving is so incredibly easy that you're better off abandoning (while allowing for even more snowballing yay!) your tower since tower hugging will almost assuredly lead to your death and the tower going down anyway.

IqqiMar 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

i feel like its just the snowball. It builds up much quicker now....allowing the enemy to more easily further their lead once they get one. The snowball.....Cannot be stopped...

Yes. It is a compounding effect. Especially for the strong majority of games when players don't have the game knowledge to realize that if you just got killed in lane, your opponent now has even an easier time killing you again... That statement itself is hard for alot of people to grasp.

But here is how it goes. -> Champion wins in lane (doesnt matter how) -> Champion gets stronger vs. his lane opponent ->Takes tower -> global gold ->pushes team advantage for more advantages -> another tower -> Etc. etc. Each objective a team takes, increases the overall gold lead of the entire team creating a compounding effect making it easier and easier to win.

The room for a comeback today is much smaller than ever before. Everything points towards a team getting a lead in the lane phase (in any lane or role doesnt matter) and then transitioning out of lane phase as the stronger team who now push objectives to increase their lead and make it harder for the enemy team to come back.

This probably is not an issue at the very high skill level when people are not dieing 3+ times in the lane, but for 70+% of games this is how it works more often than not. Sure there are mistakes and no game is completely over until its "over", but there is almost always a stronger team by the time the first tower falls.

EddardStark84Mar 10, 20161 votes

I watch high elo and pro streamers a lot..this also happens in their elo too. It's endemic to the game at this point.

Warning ShotMar 9, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I Know people feed sometimes, but holy moly not every game... literally every game.

ive noticed that since dynamic que i very rarely have any close games, its always either getting rekt, or rekking the other team.

KazaJhodoMar 9, 20163 votes

In my opinion the ranking system is busted.

You have players all over the place where they don't belong. Such as the example Karlyr gave. Inexperienced players don't know how to play from behind, they feed. They shouldn't be in silver and not have the basics down.

My first promos ever I was placed in silver 2, way way way higher than I ever remotely should've been placed. I'm way way way better than I was then, and this seasons promotion I went 7/3 and was placed in bronze 5.

Now we can choose our roles and we're still dealing with horrible people all the time. I'm trying to get some momentum behind some ideas I put down in another post to improve the system.

Ideas for Improving the Ranked System

39041022DEL1Mar 9, 20163 votes

I feel like it shouldn't be so easy to get into ranked games. You need to be able to reach a certain criteria that proves you are capable of playing ranked games. At least then there won't be brats playing ranked or something besides a simple "Victory" or "Defeat" that desides your LP. You shouldn't have to be drawn back or punished because of other people's dumb mistakes.

KomePrePongoMar 10, 20161 votes

No you should. It's not solo game.

39041022DEL1Mar 10, 20161 votes

Sure but sure as hell feels like it. Just cuz its a team game doesn't mean players act like teammates

The DeckownerMar 10, 20163 votes

every game one player is going to have a score like 1/8

or multiple at the same time.

this is how ranked feels like now

5050BSMar 9, 20162 votes

Snowball meta = harder to climb unless you have a full team of good players

Akali is SO HOTMar 9, 20162 votes

Yes it's much harder to solo carry this season than any other season so far.

DealthMar 10, 20162 votes

With how weak turrets are, every game is a 50/50 chance depending on your team comp or who has the least amount of morons.

ToolooTMar 10, 20162 votes

It's harder. Too many strong picks and games snowball out of control and lower elo players can't deal with it. If they get behind they start running around for kills, insult/blame each other, stop warding and take all the worse decisions in the world. It's already hard to find people that knows how to take advantage of their leads and knows how to focus objectives and lane properly in silver/bronze so imagine when the game goes out of control.

Mix that with dynamic queue and you get real elo hell. Solo queue has been painful for me this season. Number of throws or complete stomps (mostly because of a feeding bot lane for some reason or something broken like Yi) is incredible. Don't forget to add the good ol' trolls and afks that we already had.

Funny part is that if you're on the team that's wrecking the lanes early but you're unlucky, you're team mates start getting cocky and also run around for kills dragging games to late when you're lead means nothing.

ELO HELL does exist and it's worse this season.

39041022DEL1Mar 10, 20162 votes

Wow I thought I was the only one having this Issue, but with so many Comments and views theirs gotta be something wrong.

Live2LetDieMar 9, 20161 votes

One level difference or kill can change the whole game. Punishments are extreme right now and mistakes are punished to easily

DeloricVIMar 9, 20161 votes

This game is a combination of too difficult and too forgiving.

It's too difficult because some champions snowball so hard that the game ends early. Think Jax with devourer/rageblade, Zed casually eviscerating people and getting away with it, hyper carries in general.

It's too forgiving because even a team who's pretty well ahead can get wrecked, because everyone behind gets ambient gold and xp, while shutdowns only degrade, not fully go away when the ally is shut down. For example, I just had a game where we struggled to stay ahead in kills because of all the bonus gold. We had a Poppy that died for the first time after she had 9 kills. This shutdown gold got her killed several more times, as well as got the enemy Kog'maw some serious extra power. Then, when they got ahead, a few rounds of shutdown gold later and it kept fluctuating back and forth. This Poppy was actually good, but she didn't win because the team mechanics in place kept her from being able to do well on her own, and punished her super hard for dying, while the enemy team got rewarded way too well for shutting her down. Every time Poppy died, they kept getting massive gold injections for the whole team.

KyroRayneMar 9, 20161 votes

I feel like I'm in a much lower Elo currently... I can win my lane, or get the adc fed, but somehow they make the dumbest mistakes and cost the game. Plus the death timers are just insane.

420pxMar 9, 20161 votes

Having one person feed per game is pretty average tbh. that shouldnt stop you from winning the game unless its something that snowballs ridiculously hard and the guy died 6 times before 20

StrzygaMar 9, 20161 votes

I would say it is arguably far easier to carry games in this season. Right now there is a plethora of champions that you an play that can easily snowball the game, and go on to destroy the entire enemy team with ease. With defensive itemization being weaker than previous seasons and teams with far smaller health pools than before, it is far easier to carry teams if you have the knowledge to take advantage of your damage and carry potential. With games lasting shorter and towers weaker than ever before, combined with less focus on large team fights and more on medium/small skirmishes, good players can easily carry teammates that are performing sub pair. Not every game in Bronze/Silver/Gold is winnable but most are. Remember as long as you are better than the people you surround yourself with, you will climb. I myself have been through all the of lower elos, starting last season in b5 and currently am p5. However, if i must make a concession to your case, I have noticed the lower elos are far more winnable by brute force and solo carry than teamwork and objective focus.

The RewrittenMar 10, 20161 votes

I have this thought as well. Accidentally got placed in Bronze II. Having such a hard time climbing. I'm actually on a negative record right now (though I've since climbed to Bronze I). 2-8 Provisionals Good Lord, Fill only never again.

Consistently get S rank performances, but still lose the game. This never happened in Silver, Gold, or even Plat in previous seasons.

Maybe I'm just on tilt because I'm a Plat struggling to climb out of Bronze, of all things.

SkiasMar 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Rewritten,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3B9KKGUK,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-03-10T06:25:11.522+0000)

I have this thought as well. Accidentally got placed in Bronze II. Having such a hard time climbing. I'm actually on a negative record right now (though I've since climbed to Bronze I). 2-8 Provisionals Good Lord, Fill only never again.

Consistently get S rank performances, but still lose the game. This never happened in Silver, Gold, or even Plat in previous seasons.

Maybe I'm just on tilt because I'm a Plat struggling to climb out of Bronze, of all things.

I dropped from silver 1 to bronze 2 after placements. Ive never experienced games as difficult as bronze. Even going positive, you have very very little impact on games. I basically roll the dice on which adc feeds. Theirs or mine.

KnKitsuneMar 10, 20161 votes

Towers being too weak is a notable factor.

But overall, I have been noticing how players in Silver at least, are playing rather poorly. Went on around 5 games in a row. Some of these players were Gold last season so it made me scratch my head.

Example:

A Renekton player who was making extremely poor mistakes during the early game and ended up 0/5 and basically badmouthed the jungler(me) for not doing risky moves or not catching an enemy when my kit and summoner spell was on CD. It went as far as the poor fella diving into un-winnable fights. Fortunately, I got ahead by helping the rest of the team and we won the game.

On a different occasion, our Olaf did not speak one word to our team and did rather questionable things such as running down mid lane, into the bottom river, around the jungle, just to catch an enemy attacking the second turret instead of you know.... Going through the jungle instead. He also ran into un-winnable fights.

Serika ZeroMar 10, 20161 votes

Last year, it took me like 2 months to get from gold to plat. Around 150 games or 200. This year, I went from g5 to plat5 in 2 weeks and just 60-70 games.

The premades are fucking annoying, especially when there's 4 of them. And more shitty behavior than in normal games. But I'm used to that from normal games, so I guess it works thou.

What made it easier for me to climb this year compared to last one, was the ability to spam the same champion(s) over and over again and the same roles. Always queuing for mid/top (as those are my main roles) with Diana and Akali mainly.

BadmoonBCMar 10, 20161 votes

IMO it's dynamic q I've been put on a team with a premade 4man too many times lately. Lately it's been me(gold 3 last season) grouped with 4 guys that are either newish to the game or barely silver. Now, the bullshit is, they group me with these 4 guys and then put us against a bunch of solo low gold players from last season or high silver. The reason is because riot is trying to make up for the communication advantage my team has. The problem with this is it doesn't matter how much communication the 4man premade has, they are all are not even close skill/knowledge wise to the opposing solo team so every lane gets crushed except for mine(and even mine does too obviously sometimes, I'm not saying I'm good) But it's quite bs when my teams Botlane are RL friends that are both 200 games in with silver 5, and they have to face gold 5s with 1500 wins/games in their pocket. They don't stand a chance. Communication means nothing if the team hasn't got a clue what they are doing objective wise/Map wise. Solo players are truly getting screwed right now