Removing unstoppable from Ornn is like removing animation cancelling from Riven.

Bârd·Jan 17, 2018·11 votes·1,633 views

You're removing a major part of what gives the champion his skill ceiling.

Hell, it's actually worse because animation cancelling could be interpreted as a bug; this is core gameplay.

If you want to nerf Ornn, revert his W to current HP. Hell, removing CC extension from Brittle would be preferable since honestly, it's rarely anything more than a gimmick. You use brittle for the damage and on-hit stun more than anything.

32 Comments

H1 H0w are YaJan 17, 20187 votes

Animation Canceling actually takes skill over just pressing a button

RalanrJan 17, 20181 votes

Ornn’s CC immunity is more a knowledge skill then a mechanic skill. The short window doesn’t give many opportunities but played well and you can avoid Morgana’s ult and Zoe’s sleep.

H1 H0w are YaJan 17, 20182 votes

I am not arguing that but OP's comparison doesn't hold. If Riven couldn't animation cancel she would be Nunu tier compared to Ornn still being extremely strong without his CC immunity

RalanrJan 17, 20181 votes

In a way I kind of agree, the comparison doesn’t hold up. Though I understand why the comparison exists.

EschetonJan 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=H1 H0w are Ya,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2x1EpcZL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-17T18:44:58.029+0000)

Animation Canceling actually takes skill over just pressing a button

If not by pressing buttons, how do you animation cancel? Sculpt a realistic likeness of Benjamin Franklin out of Gummy-bears?

H1 H0w are YaJan 17, 20184 votes

This doesn't hold, Animation canceling requires a lot more then just pressing a button. Requires precise timing and with Riven she has to do it 5-7 Times in one combo

EschetonJan 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=H1 H0w are Ya,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2x1EpcZL,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-01-17T18:52:34.120+0000)

This doesn't hold, Animation canceling requires a lot more then just pressing a button. Requires precise timing and with Riven she has to do it 5-7 Times in one combo

But that's just micro skills, you can practice those. Granted, some might never master them. But it's still just buttons. And frankly, there isn't much choice involved, as once you master it; it becomes the meta for you.

While the unstoppable meant you needed to make choices whether to use it as defense or offence and so on. Not to mention allowing you to trade with cc spambots like Riven.

Meep ManJan 17, 20182 votes

Animation Canceling was also a bug that is now a feature though, so I would rather have Ornn's W form of skill expression than something majority of spectators don't even see happening other than the enemy's health bar disappearing.

BârdJan 18, 20181 votes

As was Alisar's W-Q combo.

AhristocatsJan 17, 20186 votes

ornn cc immunity was never the problem

the problem is a tank outdamaging bruisers

13900 EssenceJan 17, 20185 votes

I hate when they remove skill expression to nerf champions, rather than just toning down stats.

Like when they removed the animation cancel on Grave's ult by dashing at the right time, that only impacts a small fraction of the players who actually already knew how to do that.

HalcyonDwellerJan 17, 20184 votes

Indeed. For a tank, Ornn does too much damage. I wish that Riot would have left unstoppable and dealt with his damage instead.

BlasphemousPrimeJan 19, 20183 votes

I like Ornn . I was sad to see him lose the Unstoppable from W. Stopping Blitzcrank hook was entertaining.

W's range isn't huge. Last gout can be dodged if your paying attention. Not rocket science.
His MoveSpeed isn't fast (middle of the road at 330), but he's got a big hitbox which makes him feel slower.
E's dash is the only gap closer or escape he has. You get CC'd you dead.
He can be out tanked (easily) with out the % HP Damage on his W.
He is susceptible to a large array of CC (given lack of disengage).
Ult Range is fine @ 2500 ( ult is 3340). Even gives you Global Noise Indicator of it coming. Maybe give it as much time to react as ult. Didn't see problem with it given you could get sniped by at either a longer or just as long range as his ult. His is just a far wider hitbox on the Ram then most of these. But the same as others which are literally global.

He's a strong champ. But taking away his core identity is lame. Rather not see this champ nerfed to oblivion and lose his character identity.

redniwediSJan 17, 20182 votes

They removed stuff from Azir after his release, and some of it was very important to how people played him (RIP knockup), but none of that hit Azir in the same way that removing Ornn's Unstoppable will hit him.

I'd gladly trade out the CC on Brittle for a channel interrupt, or even nothing at all, just to keep that fairly easy to play around Unstoppable.

RalanrJan 17, 20182 votes

Honestly the CC increase on brittle targets feels just extra and barely used in fights. I wouldn’t mind that going.

KazekibaJan 17, 20181 votes

Conversely, I feel they should double down on it. Remove the % Max health on brittle procs, just keep the stun. Make ornn's Ultimate spawn closer to him, but with a slight delay so you cant just pop it on top of someone escaping a fight at very low health and assassinate them at ranges that makes Final Spark blush.

Ornn does too much damage, but even without it he has a niche in a team with Vayne Braum Camille Ashe Sejuani Morgana Ivern , etc.

I want to see an Ornn that is picked BECAUSE of the CC extensions, instead of picked for "Tank that deals the most %Max health damage in the shortest window" or "Tank that initiates from the longest range and has reliable hard CC", both of which are Ornn's current/recent identities and nerfing him will just put Maokai or someone else in that spot. MAKE ORNN UNIQUE AGAIN.

BlasphemousPrimeJan 19, 20181 votes

If thats the case can we at least increase his move speed. Gawd he feels SOOOO slow. Can't catch nothing with out the CC / Ranged Ult.

KazekibaJan 24, 20181 votes

Thats why you have a combo with 4 knockups. And a team. And a minion wave.

BlasphemousPrimeJan 25, 20181 votes

Not if I he misses R and you walk away.

SalronJan 17, 20182 votes

Removing the CC increase isn't going to be a noticeable change because it's a gimmick

5050BSJan 17, 20182 votes

They need to both be removed

ŚhunpoJan 17, 20182 votes

Animation cancelling is an entirely different concept to Ornn's W.

While I do agree that Ornn's W unstoppable wasn't the main issue, I will say that it is/was still an issue. The ability already does tons of damage and stuns/applies a mark which lengthens other CC abilities. He doesn't need another feature on top of it.

Meep ManJan 17, 20182 votes

That's not what he is saying. It's not the same as it, but it added skill to using Ornn, such as using W to block a Lee ult that would otherwise have screwed you and potentially your team.

DryditchJan 18, 20181 votes

So what you think the OP is saying is that removing something that made Ornn strong for the skill of pressing a button is equivalent to animation canceling, which requires knowledge of where you can break an animation without losing the damage.

Every time I see one of these threads about his unstoppable being removed, I ask myself: Where's the actual skill expression?

"I pressed W" --is there a tradeoff? No. It's on like a 6 second cooldown late game.

ŚhunpoJan 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That's not what he is saying. It's not the same as it, but it added skill to using Ornn, such as using W to block a Lee ult that would otherwise have screwed you and potentially your team.

Well ok, so long as he's also ok with the ability's damage getting massively reduced as well.

RexxieeJan 17, 20181 votes

This comparison is not even close.

Riven animation canceling actually takes ton of practice and skill and it doesnt break the boundaries of the game.

Ornn gets an olaf ult + shield + % health damage twice on a basic ability on a very low CD and mana cost.

Its completely overloaded, they should remove more than just that tbh, it makes you unable to trade against ornn.

SmallieBiggzJan 17, 20181 votes

Bruh your complaining about a champ that can half health you with only a chain vest. Legit ornns damage is insane and people like panth can't even play into him. You can't out trade unless you an irelia with a few kills and ignite.

NaymlissJan 18, 20181 votes

To be fair tanks are what counters panth lol

BârdJan 18, 20182 votes

I know. That's why I called for nerfing his damage instead of his core gameplay.

RexxieeJan 18, 20181 votes

By the way the unstoppable part of his W lowers his skill as a champ.

Its not something you time it and use it carefully, you spam that shit on cd to auto win trades and it has a low cd AND mana cost.

Honestly about half of ornn W needs to be completely removed.

Automated RivenJan 18, 20181 votes

While I agree that the unstopable is not the problem, In no way is removing it removing his identity. That is like saying removing rivens bonus damage on her ult removing her identity. Killing orns identity would be more akin to taking away his passive or brittle which are unique to him. (even tho brittle is pretty much worthless most of the time) but unstoppable is more olaf/vi identity then orn tbh.

Animation cancels in contrast are a huge part of rivens identity as you have to become good at them to even play her at a reasonable level. and she is the only champion who uses them like she does.