Is Viktor the Forgotten Champion?

WitchQueen Annie··4 votes·2,333 views

For some reason I feel that Riot has forgotten about the Machine Herald.

Lord Viktor has seen his winrates fall down dramatically ever since the Rylais nerf. Ever since the MYMU, he's been getting nerfs (most of it indirect but still).

  1. Hexcore 1 changed to 1250 = awkward backs, screwed if you die before you get that magic number
  2. Ult speed nerf (again, FINE if Rylais had not been nerfed)
  3. Rylais nerf
  4. Ghost nerf

At present, he's sitting at a measly ~47 percent win rate.

Most of his damage is delayed and is easily counter played; he has less range than many mid lane mages, his damage has become even harder to land ever since the Rylais nerf.

Lux has a higher win rate in Solo Q and yet receives immediate attention from Riot, getting new skins, unecessary buffs to the Ult... meanwhile, Lord Viktor is still in disarray.

Despite his reputation as a "pro champ" that sees pro play, the recent games actually show that he's very rarely picked and when picked, doesn't do so well.

He deserves to be buffed because honestly 47% win rate is just too low. Also, there's got to be a reason to pick him (besides him looking like a boss and having high theoretical damage numbers, most of it never hitting). He already has less range than most mids, struggles against assassins and anti-AP itemisation, and now most of his damage can't even be landed.

Does Riot plan on looking at Viktor????

Of has Viktor become... THE FORGOTTEN CHAMPION (dun dun dun)

18 Comments

The Anagram King2 votes

Vik's always been the forgotten champion. It took an entire year of constant fan pleading on the forums in a megathread just to get them to tweak his old hex core. But damn if they didn't do a good job with it.

Solcrushed spoiled us with an amazing rework. But everything since has been as though a sleight to his playstyle - slowly chipping away at reliable aspects of Vik's kit in exchange for flat stat boosts.

I'll confess - I LIKE the mana scaling. But I liked Viktor pre and post-rework much more than ricklessabandon's tweaks. Viktor feels very clumsy, right now.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

I see...

what would you have changed?

The Anagram King1 votes

I mean, I would've changed nothing. He was in a good place - and only ended up seeing these changes cos' player opinion. Though I will concede that I AM a fan of the hex core cost reshuffle, as a concept. Maybe Vik should've gotten a little bit of tweaking on the stats of the first upgrade in order to compensate, but turning the core from a "buy this first" item into a "Buy this if you're ahead or REALLY need one of the abilities!" with a minimal gold change was a move I can appreciate.

buuuuuuut, that said...


  • Making the ult zap periodically is thematically lamer than the old ult. In addition, it dramatically decreases the zoning capabilities of the ability. Vik's singularity used to GRIND at your hp. You don't jump through it - it still hurts and/or slows you. Instead, it zaps periodically. You can't tick low hp targets, then swing it somewhere else to zone out an incoming carry. Nuh uh - you have to relocate the cloud, WAIT for the zap, then move your mouse back to the cloud's general area and relocate it once more. It's adding extra delays to micromanagement AND limiting its zoning ability. It's yuck.

  • Slowing down the E's aftershock makes it a glorified wave clear tool. It takes a reactionary mage who PUNISHES bad position, then adds another layer of punishing extra ignorance. So, in essence, you have to win the 'bad play' lottery two times in order to pull off full damage. Vel Koz doesn't have to deal with this; and his offensive burst is much more punishing than VIktor's.


In a perfect world, I would've loved all Vik reworks to allow us to sacrifice raw power for utility. He is, after all, a zoning mage, a burst mage, AND riddled with self-buffing utilities. If Riot wants Vik's burst to be more manageable, then they should BRING BACK his old hex core build path concept - redesigned so as to not be the lacklustre system we initially petitioned Riot to change.

  • A BURST Augment path - like our current one - that enables Vik to chase down and punish targets; but also leaves gaps in his defense; or spaces out his burst, that enemies may escape (or outright avoid) it. The Q's empowered attack; W's slow setup time; E's delayed Aftershock; and Chaos Storm's "Gapped Zap".

  • A UTILITY Augment path, that turns Viktor into a full-blown control mage - turning chaos storm into a debuff cloud, and slowing down targets through radically improved methods. One such example could be applying something resembling Gravity Field stacks when hitting targets with abilities or basic attacks. Instead of being limited to throwing a stun patch and praying for the enemy to hang around inside, he could laser inbound enemies - reducing their engage potential - and slap opponents already in the thick of it, turning the tide of battle. A huge damage nerf in exchange for incredible control potential.

  • We could even take it a step further throwing in things like , a TANK Augment path; or a SUPPORT Augment path - slowly building him up to adapt to any role, as his team requires. Perhaps even JUNGLE augments. It could be considered a perfectly viable strategy for Viktors to passively farm and wait for 5 or 10 minutes, before purchasing their augment and locking in to a particular playstyle. Adaptation - the dream. Function over form.

... But such optimistic hopes don't amount to much, cos' Riot avoids Viktor like the plague. :P

RexSaur1 votes

Poor viktor only dominated solo q / competitive play for over a year straight.

WitchQueen Annie2 votes

And because of that, we disregard all notions of PRESENT balance?

...

Me: "Your heartbeat is irregular today, I think you need medical attention." ...

You: "Nah, my heart has only been beating properly FOR A STRAIGHT YEAR IN THE PAST TWO YEARS AGO."

...

Me: "I'm going to have to report you for not paying your taxes this year."

You: "Shut your mouth boy. I've been paying my taxes for the last year and the year before for TWO YEARS STRAIGHT."

Me: "But this year... like RIGHT NOW this year you have not-"

You: "I been paying the year before so stop looking."

...

Me: "You failed the exam. I'm sorry you have to rewrite."

You: "IMPOSSIBLE. I passed the exam last year and the one before that so..."

Viktor Von Lazer2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlad Maine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2jEF5fP5,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-04-17T03:31:55.290+0000)

And because of that, we disregard all notions of PRESENT balance?

...

Me: "Your heartbeat is irregular today, I think you need medical attention." ...

You: "Nah, my heart has only been beating properly FOR A STRAIGHT YEAR IN THE PAST TWO YEARS AGO."

...

Me: "I'm going to have to report you for not paying your taxes this year."

You: "Shut your mouth boy. I've been paying my taxes for the last year and the year before for TWO YEARS STRAIGHT."

Me: "But this year... like RIGHT NOW this year you have not-"

You: "I been paying the year before so stop looking."

...

Me: "You failed the exam. I'm sorry you have to rewrite."

You: "IMPOSSIBLE. I passed the exam last year and the one before that so..."

People just hate anything that's been good for a while, VIktor just needs the reliability of his damage back that's the only buff he needs. the 1250 till hexcore being a weakness in him i kind of like even as a fan of Viktor, yes it delays the power spike but if you could RELIABLY get the second portion of the damage off I think it's more than worth the delay. Either a small tweak to his cc cause atm it's only really good for a zoning tool, comboing with some other cc or your opponent being distracted and not noticing it in teamfights, which are all good, but not good enough for soloQ, Either that or a shorten delay the second part of the damage on E would be good buff.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

Yeah I'd like to see that as well...

He works really well when I Duo and Party with friends (where he can specialise in damage and follow-up because I know we have the frontline) but in Solo Q he just feels so much less independent than someone like Lux, Veigar or Annie at setting his own plays when the team is behind.

RexSaur1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlad Maine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2jEF5fP5,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-04-17T03:31:55.290+0000)

And because of that, we disregard all notions of PRESENT balance?

...

Me: "Your heartbeat is irregular today, I think you need medical attention." ...

You: "Nah, my heart has only been beating properly FOR A STRAIGHT YEAR IN THE PAST TWO YEARS AGO."

...

Me: "I'm going to have to report you for not paying your taxes this year."

You: "Shut your mouth boy. I've been paying my taxes for the last year and the year before for TWO YEARS STRAIGHT."

Me: "But this year... like RIGHT NOW this year you have not-"

You: "I been paying the year before so stop looking."

...

Me: "You failed the exam. I'm sorry you have to rewrite."

You: "IMPOSSIBLE. I passed the exam last year and the one before that so..."

The thing is, viktor isnt bad now.

He isnt underpowered, hes just balanced, and that doesnt mean he needs buffs to go straight back into pick or ban tier.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

then how do you explain the 46% win rate?

That balanced to you?

Anags1 votes

Go watch some streams of challenger and master tier players. You will still see him getting played and doing well as often as not.

Not sure why they would change him when people at the highest level still see success on the champ.

He has the same winrate as Zed. I think both are okay right now.

Hell Ryze is at 37%. If any champ gets work it will be him. But he does get reworked about once a year.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

The last 3 streams of him on YT that I've watched the pro CS-ed very well with Vik but could not carry the team in the end; it seems that even they struggle with his relatively clunky kit (whereas play-making is much more straightforward, reliable, and high impact with other Mids). And these are top streams like Bjergsen and Voyboy.

Zed is not okay either. There is even less of a reason to pick him.

Viktor Von Lazer3 votes

{quoted}

The thing is, viktor isnt bad now.

He isnt underpowered, hes just balanced, and that doesnt mean he needs buffs to go straight back into pick or ban tier.

He is relatively weak, not by much but enough that it can be felt. The reason you pick VIktor is damage, and atm it's not that he isn't doing enough, but with rylais and ghost nerf he isn't doing damage consistently. What I consider balanced would be Orianna and atm Orianna's damage is just a lot more reliable and consistent than Viktor's while still being able to provide much more utility. When an Ori ult hits your carries it's like a magic trick - Leblanc "I'll make their life bars disappear" When Viktor drops his ult without good set up from his team.. it's just blink dash, hookshot, leap, swing, bounce and whatever other fancy mobility BASIC ability you want to use to get out of it. Now with 40% slows applied from your E and R, and a stronger ghost you aren't getting away so easily, but now... CYA! He really doesn't need much to compete with Orianna, just reliability. It's just small tweaks like this that bring variety cause I can't imagine anyone picking Viktor first over Orianna in LCS or in Ranked, maybe just a normal cause he's fun, or if you're really good at Viktor.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

I agree...

His (relative) short range is a very large disadvantage. It would be fine if he had a LOT more burst damage but its not his forte either compared to true 100-0 burst mids Annie Akali Syndra.

You also can't just sit back and laser either in a lot of match ups because the other team probably outranges you if they have a Lux (but you can't easily approach either).

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

What if increased the instant AOE damage of the Ult slightly?

Obviously not to Annie levels but just slightly

FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votes

As a former Azir/Kalista/Fiddle/Udyr main, I think a lot of champions become forgotten after a long streak of dominance. Kalista is back because BORK is OP, but once it's nerfed, she's back in the shitter, and I'll be forced off the 4 champions I used to love.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

So Viktor suffers from Azir's bad rep as well? =(

FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votes

Not so much. His problem was farm botting and stalling games. Blows my mind ziggs hasn't been looked at for this reason

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