Veteran's Scars needs a buff.

xxxDogmanxxx·Feb 20, 2017·111 votes·4,034 views

Right now, Runic Armor outclasses Veteran Scars at nearly all points of the game. Even those without any built-in healing or shield in their kits take Runic Armor instead of Veteran Scars because of the commonness of shields and healing from teammates plus potions and HP regen.

50 HP is simply too small. Veteran Scars needs to have some sort of scaling HP to make it a more viable choice. I mean, wasn't it reworked to make it more viable for ADCs? Very few ADCs even take it because Runic Armor is undoubtedly better.

Buff Veteran Scars. Make it give something like 50 + 5% max HP. That should at least make it more compelling to take.

77 Comments

GGLineaRFeb 20, 201723 votes

Watch them nerf Runic armor instead.

ignyteFeb 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Watch them nerf Runic armor instead.

I don't know what it was about this comment.... but it made me audibly laugh out loud. like a childish giggle . maybe because it was so simple but probably 100% accurate.

HeroquetFeb 20, 201711 votes

I take the +50 hp on all my supports (enchanters included) because the anti-all-in potential is really significant when you can be focused by 2-4 people in a gank.

Or am I wrong?

DeusVultFeb 20, 20174 votes

if you take the stronger shields/heal/regen/lifesteal one, you get more out of it than 50 health. Even on someone like sona or lulu

LankPantsFeb 21, 20171 votes

I take the +50 hp on all my supports (enchanters included) because the anti-all-in potential is really significant when you can be focused by 2-4 people in a gank.

For tanks and mages (if you're specing them resolve), no. For enchanters it's a 50/50 based on the champ. If you're someone like Janna, Lulu or Nami who heals one target (generally the ADC) I'd say it's a wash and they're about as good as each other. If you're Sona, Soraka or Taric and you indiscriminately heal and shield both you and your ally at the same time then you should always run Runic Armour if you're specing 0/18/12.

Your main support is Sona, so in this case it's 100% wrong to take the 50 HP.

HeroquetFeb 21, 20171 votes

I'll try the regen to look how it works. Just keep in mind Sona is really close to the lowest base hp in the early levels and is quite low in the ar / hp5 stats too. And the damage ramapge in botlane is kinda broken right now.

Actually, i think a baseline for the enchanter class is shit-level base stats. Base MP5 is really high, but even mp5 / level is among the lowest of the pack.

LankPantsFeb 21, 20171 votes

50 HP isn't going to make or break your HP pool most of the time. The only time when it can ever be better is if you get absolutely all-ined 100-0, but Sona's so squishy that if you let that happen you probably lose either way.

Once you account for healing from 3 pots just with base heal alone not accounting for HP regen, AP, shielding or extra ranks in W you need to heal 6 times for the healing to be better than 50 HP. If you burn all your HP pots and heal 6 times before you die or B then you got more out of Runic Armour than Vet Scars. Realistically this number is more like 3 because of HP regen and shielding.

I'd question if 0/18/12 is even the correct spec for Sona though, considering her early damage it's often worth just going 12/18/0 with DeS to maximise damage, if you get caught you're dead, sure but even with 12 points in resolve that's still the most likely outcome of you getting caught anyway.

ModCaptainMårvelousFeb 20, 20177 votes

+5% HP is what it got nerfed for. It was actually smaller (like 4% HP? I think) in it's original form.

I'd say make it 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5 or something along those lines.

Big LincolnFeb 20, 201712 votes

it got nerfed because they wanted ADCs to want it, and ADCs didn't want a health multiplier

PB4UAMEFeb 21, 201710 votes

Which never made any goddamn sense. Tanks get like 2 good masteries in their entire tree, because the lower half has to be devoted to ADCs, because god forbid they ever have an inefficient way of spending masteries, in any of the three trees, even the one that is designed to counter the offensive power from their primary tree.

RocketRelmFeb 21, 20174 votes

It's not even better on adcs, is the best part. Early game you have Pots, life stealing off minions every wave from Dblade, Heal summoner, and a support giving shields to you.

Late game you (usually) have redemption/locket from support, and your damage+lifesteal is so high that's also worth more.

LankPantsFeb 21, 20175 votes

Only one of the two good masteries is even a tank mastery. As good as Insight is having it in Resolve makes little sense.

TotalJerkFeb 21, 20172 votes

It got changed because they wanted it to be an early game mastery instead of a lategame one.

flat health is better early, % health is better late.

Illâoi Evê SiônFeb 21, 20171 votes

No, it got nerfed because it gave Tanks too much late game strength. ~~Which ADC would ever put points into the Resolve Tree?~~

Big LincolnFeb 21, 20173 votes

all of them right now

Illâoi Evê SiônFeb 21, 20172 votes

wow. Did not notice that trend.

Big LincolnFeb 21, 20174 votes

I didn't either until recently, seeing one of qtpie videos and his mastery setup

DeusVultFeb 20, 20177 votes

2.5% is super low. If you have 3000 health, which is a mid to late game tank, unless you are stacking HP without resists, then you only get 75 bonus health.

4% or 5% would make it a viable alternative to runic

ModCaptainMårvelousFeb 21, 20174 votes

4-5% made it better than runic armor. It's why it got nerfed. It is literally why this mastery was changed.

That said, if it was 4-5% BONUS health, it might be good, but all you're asking right now is for it to be buffed past the original state Riot deemed problematic.

ProfDrDeathFeb 20, 20175 votes

Maybe have Veteran's Scars and Unyielding switch places?

Scars would probably need to be reduced to 5 per point, but you could buff Unyielding to also affect base resistances...

LankPantsFeb 21, 20173 votes

I'd say put Vet Scars where Legendary Guardian is, Unyielding where Vet Scars is and Legendary Guardian where Unyielding is.

Make LG +2 armour and +1 MR per champ at max rank, make Vet Scars 7% increased HP and make Unyielding off of all resists. Those masteries when organised like that would all be competitive in their own tier, there'd be situations for both Vet Scars and Swiftness, LG and Recovery and Unyielding and Runic Armour.

TheDelightedFeb 20, 20174 votes

It would provide too much power early on, but instead it would benefit from something like 50 + 5% of HP earned from Items.

Champion SkinFeb 21, 20171 votes

5% of HP earned from Items.

Why not just go with bonus HP? though yes then it would also count HP from runes and masteries but that would probably be fine?

TheDelightedFeb 21, 20171 votes

Because it would probably mess with rito spaghetti code. But yeah could be a possibility :P

Glory ln DeathFeb 21, 20171 votes

How would that mess with the code? Cinderhulk already functions off of all bonus HP, not just from items.

CasterGilgameshFeb 20, 20173 votes

what if vet scars worked like a very small TahmKench sorta thing where taking damage gives you a grey health that regens but just very very small

LordSirChipmunkFeb 20, 201720 votes

That, my friend, is called a keystone mastery. They're not going to give grey health to every champion for a weak little mastery.

CasterGilgameshFeb 20, 201714 votes

well then maybe replace the most worthless keystone for the defensive mastery.im just brain storming here.

SpoofghoulFeb 21, 20171 votes

u mean bond of trash

yea they should remove that and replace it by a keystone which blocks 1% of your hp from all incoming damage after resists and makes 5% of actual damage taken into grey health u regenerate

FantasySniperFeb 21, 20173 votes

They should dump the bonus health onto Recovery; then they should replace Veteran's Scar's with "Bladed Armor" that returns flat damage upon being hit with basic attacks and scales from your missing health.

MrWasjigFeb 21, 20173 votes

Veteran Scars has been trash since it was changed to flat HP. Needs %

DragonSheaFeb 21, 20173 votes

It was better as a %HP bonus

RexSaurFeb 20, 20172 votes

Tanks are already getting a huge buff next patch, they dont need another one thanks.

RalanrFeb 20, 201716 votes

You mean the overall damage nerf and the LW buff?

doiminat0r3600Feb 21, 20171 votes

It used to be 5% extra HP but that was pointless because it gave less HP than it does now. I personally think it's fine, especially for mid laners or ADC that want to go half into the 3rd tree instead of the 2nd.

PB4UAMEFeb 21, 20171 votes

5% increased hp = 50 hp at 2,500 hp. So for all the tanks, juggernauts, etc that are supposed to go into the defensive tree 5% increased hp is better after 1-2 health items depending on what they buy and their level.

It was changed to 50 flat because that was better for fucking ADCs who should not be thought about for a defensive tree, much less have the entire lower half of it catered to them, instead of to tanks and juggeranuts, but sadly, that's exactly what RIOT did.

doiminat0r3600Feb 21, 20171 votes

It was pointless for their target audience (The squishies that wanted more defensive stats) and ended up getting about 25HP off it while juggernauts generally went Runic Armor to increase their item 3083 item 3065 combo even more. Would you rather have 60 more HP as a 3000 HP tank, or extra regen to get it all back faster?

Dominick DestineFeb 21, 20174 votes

{quoted}

5% increased hp = 50 hp at 2,500 hp

That's.... not true.

5% of 2,500 is 125. EPIC FAIL.

doiminat0r3600Feb 21, 20172 votes

Quoting and replying to me for something I didn't say.

EPIC FAIL

ExcusemeFellowsFeb 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Quoting and replying to me for something I didn't say.

EPIC FAIL

Uhhh, he wasn't quoting you, he was quoting PB4UAME. EPIC FAIL(this is based on assuming you were replying to Dominick).

doiminat0r3600Feb 21, 20171 votes

His quote box used to say my name. They fixed it after seeing my comment.

ExcusemeFellowsFeb 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

His quote box used to say my name. They fixed it after seeing my comment.

Ahh, I see. Ok then, carry on.

BoilTheOilFeb 21, 20171 votes

8% healing isnt that much either

rtbf76109271Feb 21, 20175 votes

It's not like game changing but it's FAR more hp than 50. Once you heal 625, 50hp of that would be a bonus from the +8%. So you almost break even from a 3 potion start which give 450. Or more, if you also have the potion mastery.

Add in a support or sustain mechanism healing you, plus it effects hp regen and lifesteal, and you have way way way more hp over the course of some trades and healing after.

BoilTheOilFeb 21, 20171 votes

who heals for 625 besides Soraka

Dominick DestineFeb 21, 20174 votes

{quoted}

who heals for 625 besides

item 3107

LankPantsFeb 21, 20171 votes

Over the course of a full clear of the jungle popping 3 pots on a champion with no other sustain 8% healing winds up being over 200 HP.

Champion SkinFeb 21, 20171 votes

Well junglers also get healing from item 1041 life steal or item 1039 hp steal on monsters... and the healing from using smite on large monsters

So junglers probably get the most out of it

SteelMankindFeb 21, 20171 votes

For the extra health gained from Runic Armor healing to match Veteran Scars, your champion would need to heal (or soak with a shield) at least 625 health over the course of the fight. For champions who have shields and heals built in to their combat stats, this isn't too demanding as the game goes on. For champions who don't have shields as part of their kit/have a support who's likely to heal or shield them, natural HP regen is the only healing that Runic Armor amplifies. Healing 625 health through natural HP regen is going to take a very long time. Long enough, in fact, that you would certainly want 50 extra health to save you from dying over the course of this 5-minute long fight.

xxxDogmanxxxFeb 21, 20173 votes

You forgot the three starting potions, which make up 450 (495 if you have biscuits) of that 625 HP, meaning even a champion with absolutely no other form of sustain apart from base HP regen only has to regen 175 HP total in the early game to make Runic Armor better than Veteran's Scars. Not to mention any other potions bought in the course of the game.