It has been a couple years now since Team builder got scrapped. So I ask you, would you like to see it get brought back? If you are new and do not know what team builder is/was then I have provided a link below depicting how things were when Team Builder was active.
ModWulf Helhammer13 votesWould I like to play it again? Sure, I liked being able to pick your role without having to go through a long draft.
Do I think it would work any better than last time? No, not at all.
Do I think it would be healthy for the game in the current state if it was brought back? Not at all. The only way I could see it being possible is if it straight up replaced blind pick.
Taric the Gay3 votesWould I like to play it again? Sure, I liked being able to pick your role without having to go through a long draft.
Do I think it would work any better than last time? No, not at all.
Do I think it would be healthy for the game in the current state if it was brought back? Not at all. The only way I could see it being possible is if it straight up replaced blind pick.
Can you elaborate a bit more on why? I like seeing the reasons why someone shares a certain opinion.
Tormentula5 votesCan't speak for him,
But personally there were just a lot of unsolvable issues with team builder. Namely the queue times (GL finding a game especially when everybody is queuing up with a new champion or rework), Room abuse (kicking people hovering what you simply don't like), and of course issues with rooms people host.. either you have a ton of players hosting and you can't find anybody to join your room because everybody wants to host instead, or people go searching for rooms and either nobody is hosting or every room is full. Wasn't really fun waiting 4 minutes to find a room, and then the host kicks you and you are forced to search for another.
If team builder returned with those issues fixed, it wouldn't even be team builder anymore. All it was good for was guaranteeing your champion without instalock racing in blind, and if you're playing draft mode, with the role selection you shouldn't have an issue with that anymore unless your pick is like 100% pick or ban / randomly it gets first picked. New champions you never actually could test out in team builder, again, everybody queues for it and you're there for 2 hours.
I thought people forgot team builder even existed since last season where role queueing became a thing.
AceGeo1 votes@Taric the Gay. Read the first two sentences then stop at the word:
times
Shinjusuke3 votesWe still have blind pick to cater to vastly more ignorant toxicity, and it has more issues than team builder ever did.
If my options are "fast queue times in a queue that almost guarantees a toxic experience" or "long queue times in a mode that guarantees that at the very least everyone is playing exactly what they want to", I pick the latter every time.
Team Builder had a role. It had a purpose.
Blind pick does not and never has except to cater to people who either A) Are so impatient that they're probably the types who queue for a game when they only have 10 minutes to play and then leave, or B) Are impatient AND want to try to instalok and will usually fight tooth and nail with their own team for not getting what they want (because it's usually mid yasuo or some other player who knows they can't get their cancer-inducing champ in draft).
Especially now after the new champ select is pretty robust. I really don't play blind pick very often (usually when I'm dragged into it cuz a friend invites me into his other friend's room or something), but literally nearly every game has a boatload of toxicity because of the way blind pick functions.
Team Builder at least removed one of the core frustrations for players: Being locked into a 20min-1hr long game playing a role/champion you did not want to play. That alone removed a lot of toxic experiences, at least in my own anecdotal experience with Team Builder.
Plus it meant you didn't have to deal with flaming if you, for example, DID want to play the new champion, or needed a 5th for a weird team composition: Everyone knew what they were getting into when they got in the room, and had the chance to opt out.
While it existed, I played Team Builder almost exclusively. Again, anecdotal, but I have no clue where these claims of it being "difficult" to get into a Team Builder game for reasons of too many hosts/joiners or something comes from, as that was never my personal experience and I played a lot of League back then. In fact I partially blame TB's removal for my lessened interest over time as I've been playing so long that when I feel like playing League, it's often cuz I'm in the mood to play a certain champ/role/build, which Team Builder guaranteed.
Sure, it always had long queue times, but if you're expecting short waits, play Draft. If you're expecting like, shorter than 2 minute waits, you SERIOUSLY need to see a specialist about potential ADHD or a life coach about your unrealistic expectations for the universe. If you can't afford to wait up to 5 minutes for something (Draft Queues for most people), you either do not have time and shouldn't queue or need to learn some basic patience. Team Builder offered the benefit of "hey, if you're willing to wait 10+ minutes to play a specific thing, here's where you go".
Sure it definitely had FRINGE cases of like hour long waits, but (and again, my and my friends personal experiences) usually those were either attributed to you expecting something generally unreasonable, like day 1 playing the new champ or wanting to do some crazy 3 bot team composition or something. They certainly were not the norm despite what naysayers like to claim.
Team Builder served a unique function not provided by the other modes.
Blind Pick does absolutely nothing except serve as a festering cesspool for toxic experiences, and pretty much has since the game's release.
Tormentula1 votesI'm less interested in comparing teambuilder and blind pick, but rather comparing teambuilder and draft pick. All I see teambuilder having over draft is no autofill, no bans, and guaranteeing the champion (which again, either is or isn't an issue depending on unrealistic expectations such as trying to play a newly introduced/changed champion). Toxicity wasn't really an issue for me during teambuilder, granted people kicking you because they want a specific pick after you waited so long was lame, it wasn't necessarily toxic and encouraged players to play good picks over troll picks. Blind pick is a dark place I never like to visit, teambuilder was friendly.
Apparently queue times in draft mode were problematic enough for riot that they introduced autofill, and teambuilder was far worse in that regard. If riot is concerned for draft pick as-is, or as-was, I don't realistically seeing them being ok with what teambuilder originally was nor do I see them introducing another queue which interferes with the player population of draft mode (you can also translate that last part as "this is riot and riot decisions, not always the best but you can't expect much more").
I feel if teambuilder was "reworked" it wouldn't be teambuilder in the sense anymore, giving us the same result of trying to fix URF and we get ARURF that gave mixed feelings.
As you said, the issues were mostly fringe cases, they were issues based on whether or not they were actually issues during a time, but they still existed, and there's no way to fix the system so it's consistency never having issues. Would it be worth it to riot to bring back teambuilder, or never removing it because when it was good players accept it, but when its not good it's just a lingering gamemode.
I'd actually be down for teambuilder as a frequent rotational gamemode. Even if it turned out to just be rift in-game, it would be a good way to revisit teambuilder to test the theory of whether or not the same issues persist, and it could be fixed up in-between the next airing like ascension was. Maybe if it shows such good success riot could consider making it a permanent queue.
Shinjusuke1 votesBut Teambuilder and Blind Pick serve the same purpose as an alternative to Draft mode.
There's no point in comparing them. If you compared Draft to Blind, there's just outright no reason for blind to exist, as literally the only 2 things it adds are "toxicity" and "shorter queue times". Everything else that can be argued for in Blind Pick's defense is already covered by Team Builder.
Team Builder and Blind Pick are comparable game modes that occupy the same role in the queue options, Draft and Team Builder or Draft and Blind are not.
It's just not a useful discussion.
ModCaptainMårvelous13 votesI really begs the question why Blind Pick remains.
Sure, it's faster, but it's also a place where people fight over roles constantly and rush to instalock.
EndlessSorcerer5 votesYou need 20 champions available for Draft Pick and they want a queue open to new players.
It would be fairly each to solve if they just unlocked 10 cheap champions by default and removed them from the free champion rotation (so an account would always have 20 champions available).
Sassmast3r8 votesThe only part I miss was being able to kick players right then and there, the second you found them if you weren't satisfied with who they were playing, their attitude, or perhaps even their role. While it was frustrating just how long it would take sometimes to find a player (I used to play with my friends, I mained support, one mained mid, another mained top, it took forever to find junglers, and we hated playing with constant jinx ADCs back in S5), it still felt like not only did it encourage better pre game communcations, but it also made the games themselves feel better. Nowadays, it feels like a stressful five minutes of arguing with teammates which roles they are better at and whether or not they approve of the champion you are using and want to dodge. Very frustrating and less... familial?
TonyTonyMordecai5 votesI feel like teambuilder would be a nice substitute for blind pick, since people have a champ they want to play in mind, but they just need to hope to god they get the role they want. But, that all depends on what roles are more popular than others.
ltmetal5 votesI desperately want blind pick replaced with teambuilder.
Buttèred Biscuit5 votesJust replace blind pick with Team builder problem solved
Pandemic Punch2 votesGreat idea :)
Escheton2 votesYes, teambuilder was great. It matched you against different elo based on if you were tryharding on your main or trying out a new champion. Now if I wanna try a new champ I am facing people tryharding on their main. And noone ends up learning anything or having a good time. I end up feeding and flamed and as the game progresses and my team gets saltier I lose sense of why I like this game.
Arkilusal2 votesI'm honestly torn, but I think part of that is half-nostalgia& not playing enough matches back in the day with it. I'm of the opinion that it WOULD be great for weakening the grip of meta since you could have players come together, actually discuss the champs they have, how they want to approach the game, etc, etc, and thus gain more strategical thinking, as opposed to the speed-chess that results unless you're queuing up with friends. I feel like it's particularly a good idea with the notion of champs that go 'I want X as my teammates' like Sej wanting melees, or Kalista kind of working better with a tanky melee support she can throw into the enemy's face. Basically it allows for more 'good at Y, bad at X' teamcomps that plan AROUND their strategic weaknesses and strengths versus having to just taking whoever is the most generalist without being glaringly bad at something important.
Taric the Gay1 votesI'm honestly torn, but I think part of that is half-nostalgia& not playing enough matches back in the day with it. I'm of the opinion that it WOULD be great for weakening the grip of meta since you could have players come together, actually discuss the champs they have, how they want to approach the game, etc, etc, and thus gain more strategical thinking, as opposed to the speed-chess that results unless you're queuing up with friends. I feel like it's particularly a good idea with the notion of champs that go 'I want X as my teammates' like Sej wanting melees, or Kalista kind of working better with a tanky melee support she can throw into the enemy's face. Basically it allows for more 'good at Y, bad at X' teamcomps that plan AROUND their strategic weaknesses and strengths versus having to just taking whoever is the most generalist without being glaringly bad at something important.
Do you think that if it gets re-implemented a sub-group choice of team builder where you choose team builder and then you went to a different screen where you choose between try-hard (competitive) and casual (noncompetitive) choices might help alleviate the complaints of the meta players while giving the off-meta players to play what they enjoy without getting raged at? Do you think something such as this would be a sensible addition?
Shinjusuke1 votesAs can be seen from my multiple lengthy posts in Team Builder, I am definitely a supporter of its return.
However, I think your idea has major exploitation problems.
Casual queue just becomes "trollfest" Tryhard queue just becomes "play the exact LCS meta despite us all being bronze"
Lots and lots of possibility for frustrating cases.
Personal example, I enjoy playing Teemo jungle with people I know (I don't take it into ranked, don't worry)
Usually, it gets mocked. Usually, it wins. When I play it, I'm not trolling, I'm taking the game seriously, and doing everything in my capacity to win. Of course, if we ever lose, people instantly blame me, even if I'm 10/0/15 with 4 solo dragons, a baron, and 2 towers under my belt (understanding this game is apparently really hard for some people).
I do well enough with it that in the League Club I started a few years ago at the college I attended (with an average of 30-40~ members each year, with ~10 cycling in/out each year) where we play custom games (in which quite a few players are higher ranked than myself), it tended to get banned because, well, it works if you know exactly what you're doing.
However, the point is that I would queue in the tryhard queue, because I'm not trolling and I'm not playing it "casually". But in your tryhard queue, I'd never get the chance to get in the room, because it's, well, only for tryhards, who mistakenly believe they're the next Faker in disguise and that their Septic Tank V ranking equates to LCS meta.
But in the casual queue, I'd be playing with people who aren't generally trying to win.
Which kinda defeats the point of Team Builder.
In summation, while I definitely recognize the intent of your idea, I really believe it's a bad route for them to go on in order to fix the issue.
FantasySniper2 votesYou should probably just leave the signature invisible. It'll still show up on the thread list and make it more noticeable, but as-is it's way too big to include in any posts.
Taric the Gay2 votesYou should probably just leave the signature invisible. It'll still show up on the thread list and make it more noticeable, but as-is it's way too big to include in any posts.
But I've been using it for well over a year now. It's kind of my thing.
FantasySniper4 votesI'm not saying you need to stop using it, but it needs to be smaller. About 100x100 or less.
When your text posts take up less space than the signature, it needs to be smaller.
yay nibbers1 votesAt least cut out some of the blank space. The actual image is way taller than it needs to be, especially for a signature graphic.
Here, I actually trimmed it for you. http://www.auplod.com/u/opdaul9b03e.png Look at how much less blank space there is!
Vectros2 votesTeam builder should never have been removed.
For all you guys saying it took too long, you could easily remedy it by taking the less desired roles. It's all about how much you actually want to play a particular role/champion. If you really wanted to play Garen jungle...eventually you could. It may take an hour, but you could do that. Or Caitlyn supported, or whatever else you wanted. You'd get who you wanted, where you wanted, with a team you were satisfied with.
As it is now, I only get the role I actually want about half the time (the other half being auto fill or getting secondary role), and getting the champion I want in a comp I want? Maybe 1 in 20 games. Players don't like to tank, so I usually go tank or a bruiser to provide our only source of frontline. It's quite frustrating, and when I decide to say screw it and go a more damagey champion, we don't have the frontline to protect me. The comp sucks and the game sucks.
Teambuilder, I could find a team comp I was satisifed with while playing who I wanted. bring it back.
LostFr0st1 votesI want a Team Builder/Blind-pick mashup, where the roles are queued up for but we skip the snake draft part.
It Hertz When IP1 votesI'm more curious why you put an image signature in your posts for added visual clutter when your username is already displayed by default.
But back on point, Team Builder had a major (signature) upside, and an equally major downside. On the one hand, you could pick your desired role and champion, meaning even in weeks where your pick would be highly contested (for example, new champion's release week) you'd still be guaranteed the ability to play that champion/role.
The downside, and ultimately what I believe will forever prevent TB from returning, is the complete lack of flexibility and team cohesion. Right now, if I queue as (god forbid) Yasuo, and I'm on a team with good teamwork skills, my allies might pick Alistar, Janna, Rek'sai, Malphite, or other champions with knock-ups to synergize with my passive. Or maybe the enemy locks in Karthus mid, so I pick Soraka support. All of that is gone with TB; you don't get to change your champion to work better with your allies, you don't get to counterpick the enemy... a fairly massive amount of strategy and tactics is thrown out the window in exchange for the dubious benefit of being able to play a specific champion on demand.
I might be biased a bit, since I play support, which is a playstyle that historically hasn't had any issues with getting the desired role/champion. I'm also in a fairly low MMR, where team synergy is a fond but empty hope since everyone does what they want, teamwork be damned, meaning that the above downside doesn't usually mean much. But ultimately I don't think the small benefit would outweigh the cost, especially in the higher ELOs.
Shinjusuke1 votesHigher ELOs tend to play Draft anyway to practice for ranked (as that's how you get to higher ELOs)
Besides, Team Builder had no more (and in my opinion, had significantly less) issues than Blind Pick will always have.
The only issue with team builder that isn't an issue with blind pick is queue times, and a strong case can be made for people just not moving off of blind pick despite it being objectively inferior to Draft or TB.
The only real benefit BP ever provided is short queue time, and everything else is provided by the other queues.
And the only reason the queue times are longer in Draft or TB is because blind pick exists and, due to herd mentality, always has the shortest queues because it always has the shortest queues because it always has the shortest queues... (you get the idea).
No blind pick = that herd splits to TB or Draft = less queue time in either.
The one major gripe with TB that would be ripe for improvement is the inability to change champions and roles after being added to a room, albeit that would probably have to come with the caveat of a button where, upon swapping roles/champions, it's presented as a "request" to the host who can than approve or deny the request.
Granted, the obvious issue is something that plagues draft (people queuing as supp/fill/jungle and then trying to bully people into changing roles) but seeing as you're not in champ select in team builder, the host simply kicks that person from the room. Additionally, upon X amount of refused requests, an automatic system could flag that player as attempting to "weasel in" to rooms and put them in a lower priority or some similar punishment. Not a flawless system but I did just come up with it in the last minute or so.
It Hertz When IP1 votesYeah, queue times could get bad, but you didn't address my main point; the inability to coordinate teams.
Shinjusuke1 votesI did address it, you seem to have quit reading my post before the last two paragraphs, for which I cannot help you.
Shuriman Curator1 votesIf blind pick was replaced with Team Builder id play that over draft lol
XxLollyPopxX1 votesI feel as though teambuilder should be brought back because of mainly auto fill. No one enjoys being filled to another position that you really didn't want in the first place. Teambuilder gave you the option of who and where you wanted to play and sure it could take time; I'd rather wait than auto filled to a position I didn't sign up for. Teambuilder should make its return to all game modes to ensure players aren't being trolled and not having to dodge and drop LP because of idiot trying stupid things. Teambuilder was a fix to problems that have now been seen again and have progressed to become even worse. Riot has been making many changes that have now effected the game in such a way that it is hard to find a good responsible team to be with. Teambuilder should be re-added for many reasons, I honestly don't care about waiting for my position, I'd just like to have my role I signed up for. Lastly, what made Teambuilder so great was that if you didn't like the team you were in there was a "Ready" button that made sure if your team looked good for your standards. This wouldn't count as a dodge you would jump right back into a Queue to find a new Team that would fit your play style.
