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Cinderhulk vs Sunfire Cape

SecretAgentHulk·2/28/2015, 1:59:03 PM·1 votes·6,713 views
2/27 PBE Update

So there's going to be a new jungle item, Cinderhulk: 2200g +350 HP +25% bonus HP Immolate: ramps from 15 (+1/lvl) to 30 (+2/lvl) AOE (what range?)

Compare with Sunfire Cape: 2600g +450 HP +45 armor Sunfire: deals 25 (+1/lvl) AOE 400 range

I'm Bronze and always looking to improve, so could someone tell me if I've got this right? As a top laner, I'd want to build Cinderhulk against AP champs but SF Cape against AD ones, yeah?

Would it still be worth to build Cinderhulk against an AD laner if I know that the mages are going to be a problem later-game? Is there ever a situation where the Immolate passive (where the ramped-up damage ranges from 32 at level 1 to 66 at 18) is a better choice than the Sunfire Cape passive (ranges from 26 at 1 to 43 at 18)?

Is there a good reason to take Smite (I'm thinking use the Challenging Smite) to get Cinderhulk versus just using SF Cape with Ignite or Teleport?

What I'm asking is, when would a top laner want to use Cinderhulk?

29 Comments

Erockandroll2/28/2015, 2:27:59 PM2 votes

{quoted}

So there's going to be a new jungle item, Cinderhulk: 2200g +350 HP +25% bonus HP Immolate: ramps from 15 (+1/lvl) to 30 (+2/lvl) AOE (what range?)

Compare with Sunfire Cape: 2600g +450 HP +45 armor Sunfire: deals 25 (+1/lvl) AOE 400 range

I'm Bronze and always looking to improve, so could someone tell me if I've got this right? As a top laner, I'd want to build Cinderhulk against AP champs but SF Cape against AD ones, yeah?

Would it still be worth to build Cinderhulk against an AD laner if I know that the mages are going to be a problem later-game? Is there ever a situation where the Immolate passive (where the ramped-up damage ranges from 32 at level 1 to 66 at 18) is a better choice than the Sunfire Cape passive (ranges from 26 at 1 to 43 at 18)?

Is there a good reason to take Smite (I'm thinking use the Challenging Smite) to get Cinderhulk versus just using SF Cape with Ignite or Teleport?

What I'm asking is, when would a top laner want to use Cinderhulk?

CiderHulk is a Jungle enchantment that is replacing Juggernaut. You can't buy it unless you have smite. It was designed to help Tank Junglers clear camp faster.

Though if your Toplane, Sunfire cape will probably be just fine. If you having trouble with an AP matchup, get an early Specter's cowl, or a Hex Drinker. (depending if your more tank or fighter.)

XxxLumberJackxxX2/28/2015, 3:07:18 PM2 votes

Dumb question- Sion's passive health increase, is that considered bonus health?

RazorTS2/28/2015, 2:32:57 PM1 votes

well that is great item for sion at least.

Darkshade242/28/2015, 3:03:10 PM1 votes

So basically you're asking whether taking smite instead of ignite or teleport, in order to get Cinderhulk, is worth it. If taking smite was better, then taking it over ignite or teleport would be meta. Since it is not, we can safely assume that taking smite over ignite and teleport in the top lane is not always better.

But, on specific champions, it might have more worth. I can only really see this working out in lower Elos, because without teleport, Top laners have about zero map pressure outside of split pushing, which most split pushers still benefit more from teleport than more synergy with bonus health. So in lower Elos, this has the potential to be viable only on full tanks, who don't need very much map pressure, so champs that have decent teamfights.

So in conclusion, taking smite may be better on some tanky champions than teleport or ignite. I doubt it, but you should try it(not in a ranked game of course) and see how it works for you.

Hope this helped!

Sirsir2/28/2015, 4:09:17 PM1 votes

It might work on Warwick top or something, but it really doesn't seem like it would be worth taking Smite in a lane

Tin Tarantino2/28/2015, 5:15:53 PM1 votes

You need smite to build this, so chances are you won't be building it as a top laner.

Yandere Carry2/28/2015, 5:20:05 PM1 votes

you wouldn't be building it as a top laner. it's a jungle item. Teleport is too good of a summoner spell.

I personally don't think cinderhulk passive is going to be anygood. Why? Because I think the time it takes to ramp up damage is going to be WAYYY too long for it to really matter. Teamfights are decided in about 5-8 seconds.

SanKakU2/28/2015, 2:16:06 PM1 votes

I know they are trying to make Jungle champs the best in the game, but 25 percent seems high.

Luzuras3/13/2015, 7:56:12 AM1 votes

Cinderhulk is OP on Tank Mundo toplane. Summoner Spells: Smite and Teleport

With cinderhulk, your full build gives you over 6k hp. Plus you have all that AOE damage with the passive plus your W. Still plenty of Armor and MR (likely 150+ each) and with Challenging Smite, you can reduce whoever is doing the most damage to you's damage by 20%. With your R, you will likely regen faster than they can kill you. Meanwhile, you have over 100 AOE magic damage, a ton of damage from spamming your cleavers, and the bonus AD from your E makes you a killing machine. If you smite gromp occasionally, that will give you 400 damage (10% bonus HP) returned to whomever attacks you as well, and at this point you will truly dominate those teamfights.

Teleport gives you the ability to splitpush or return to lane after you buy your fist 4k worth of items, as you are mundo and never leave lane, or else teleport into teamfights, dragons, save other lanes' towers, etc. And smite is necessary for cinderhulk, and yes, the reasons above DO make it worth bringing smite.

And Top lane mundo will get way more farmed, much more quickly, than a jungle mundo.

Example Mundo Build with this method: Start Warmogs, then build Cinderhulk. Then add a Spirit Visage and Randuin's Omen (order here depends on situational threats). For the last two items, I'd go either a Thornmail or Banshee's veil depending on who the threat is, and rounding off your build with either the other of those, or a Frozen Mallet. Unkillable, great AOE damage, reduce one opponent's damage to you by 20%, and over 6K hp. Expensive? yes. But you WILL be fed, and you will be able to afford this in a drawn out game, or you will carry hard enough with what you do buy to end the game early.

Not sure, but this may also be the case for some other champions like Cho'Gath and Zac as well.

Extreme Troller2/28/2015, 2:22:27 PM1 votes

is it 25% bonus hp of the bonus hp or 25%bonus hp of the total hp ? riot can't even write good sentence. League of legends is definitivly going downhill :/ sad but true.