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Idea to improve Sightstone

SecretAgentHulk··23 votes·2,921 views

So, the +250HP on Ruby Sightstone (this is on top of the 150HP from Sightstone, so I don't count that) is kind of a worthless stat IMO unless you are a tanky support. (I'm Bronze I, fire away community.) I've seen threads asking for a rework, usually focused on the wards part of it, but the more I use Sightstone, the more I think that ward-wise it's OK. That +250HP though. As someone who plays AP supports a lot, I will buy an elixir before I upgrade to Ruby Sightstone.

What if Sightstone built into enchantments or more diverse items, like the new S5 jungle items? Have a Sapphire Sightstone (AP), Emerald Sightstone (health), Ruby Sightstone (AD), and Amethyst Sightstone (attack speed). These correspond to the colors of the new jungle enchantments. I'm not entirely sure who'd build Ruby or Amethyst, but maybe these would make Sightstone a more viable jungle pick, which can't be a bad thing, especially with wards taken out of the S5 jungle items.

There wouldn't have to be insane boosts to any of these stats, but as an example, if Sapphire Sightstone built out of a Sightstone (800g) + Amplifying Tome (435g) + 365g (to keep the 1600g total) and gave maybe +30AP it would definitely be a better buy on Sona or Nami IMO than the current Ruby Sightstone. As Trundle jungle, I would be more inclined to buy a Ruby or Amethyst Sightstone and continue to contribute to warding the way I did when Wriggle's/Quill Coat had a ward; as things stand with the PBE (AFAIK), I would probably just buy wards until I reach full build, and then hope for the best because I have red trinket and can't ward any more.

59 Comments

7ha7guy7778 votes

no opal sightstone? i guess harmony is an underrated stat

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

Everything I know about gems I learned from Skyrim; you'll have to take it up with Bethesda. As for harmony, I don't know what stat you might be referring to. I was just going off the colors and stats the new jungle enchantments provide.

AdgharKH2 votes

thatguy's joke -> your head

Taric Taric, the Gem Knight, has an infamously bizarre obsession with gems. There's some kind of surreal hilarity in reciting his mantras: Sapphire for divinity. Ruby for vigor. Emerald for insight. Opal for harmony. etc. etc.

EDIT: His voice is pretty sexy too, so gays or females might experience calm and soothing instead of surreal hilarity.

serpensortia15 votes

Taric's quotes refer to Rubies, Emeralds, Sapphires, and Opals.

Rew7115 votes

I got it. Give it a bonus in armor + magic resist. Like first you get item 1028 to then get item 2049. Then you get item 1033 and item 1029 to then get a (1300 exact) reduction for the Opal Sightstone which will cost 1400 or can cost 1500 or 1600. It's bonus gives +20 armor and +25 magic resist with the bonus Sightstone.

This will be fantastic for Taric and Galio.

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

I think building it out of Sighstone, Null-Magic Mantle, Cloth Armor, and 0g (NMM costs 100g more in S5) would be pretty decent. I would be tempted to take it instead of health Sightstone with Braum too.

buster kiton4 votes

Just make it upgrade into different gems; one for tanks (resistances, HP), one for utility (preferably movement speed, too many slows already) and one for protecting (small shield/heal or something).

Well, even if these items would still be bad, Taric always likes to have more gems.

Ulric Greatsword2 votes

How would you have 2 actives on the protecting one? It would need to be a passive. I think to really make it a true support item, each should provide a unique aura. Love the idea of the upgrades, though.

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

Ooh, I like. Auras also reinforce the idea that this is more of a support item (though I still don't know why it needs to be as long as it's stats are UP enough to make choosing it a tradeoff for a jungler).

AtheosisX4 votes

Up voted. Ruby sightstone sucks.

Toben4 votes

There is a problem with this. I believe that it is riot's intent that ONLY supports would buy this item. This was the trouble with the gold-per-5 items in, like, season 3? They were meant to be bought by supports (who didn't have any gold income) but junglers were buying them and top laners were buying them too, and it was making the game somewhat stagnant. So, the ruby sightstone upgrade may be bad, but they also don't want non-supports buying it, they don't want each team having to spend a ton of gold for wards each game, it just stagnates the game. You have to make the upgrade attractive to supports but not other roles.

MrSlowDie4 votes

I don't like the AD, AP, AS, health bonus, But giving unique support-y passive is good

Pyro4 votes

Ask and you shall receive

TL;DR:

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1028 Ruby Crystal + 400 g = Ruby Sightstone

  • +400 health
  • Vigor:
  • Your Stealth Wards last for 240 seconds.
  • Your Vision Wards have +2 health (7).

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1027 Sapphire Crystal + 400 g = Sapphire Sightstone

  • +200 health, +300 mana
  • Serenity:
  • +2 Ward Refresh stacks (total: 6)
  • Whenever your Vision Ward is being destroyed, you retain vision (but not true vision) of the area for 5 seconds.

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1006 Rejuvenation Bead + 620 g = Emerald Sightstone

  • +200 health, +100% base health regeneration
  • Regrowth:
  • You gain one Ward Refresh stack every 90 seconds.
  • Your Vision Wards regain their health points if they haven't been attacked in the last 10 seconds.

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1004 Faerie Charm + 620 g = Amethyst Sightstone

  • +200 health, +50% base mana regeneration
  • Transmutation:
  • You gain one Ward Refresh stack whenever a nearby ward is being destroyed.
  • Your Vision Wards reveal all enemy Stealth Wards in the range.

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1052 Amplifying Tome + 365 g = Opal Sightstone

  • +200 health, +30 ability power
  • Insight:
  • You can place wards at an increased range (1000 units - Feral Flare range).
  • Your Vision Wards true sight range is increased to match their vision range (1100 units).

The linked post contains bigger explanation on the designs.

AtheosisX4 votes

Ask and you shall receive

TL;DR:

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1028 Ruby Crystal + 400 g = Ruby Sightstone

  • +400 health
  • Vigor:
  • Your Stealth Wards last for 240 seconds.
  • Your Vision Wards have +2 health (7).

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1027 Sapphire Crystal + 400 g = Sapphire Sightstone

  • +200 health, +300 mana
  • Serenity:
  • +2 Ward Refresh stacks (total: 6)
  • Whenever your Vision Ward is being destroyed, you retain vision (but not true vision) of the area for 5 seconds.

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1006 Rejuvenation Bead + 620 g = Emerald Sightstone

  • +200 health, +100% base health regeneration
  • Regrowth:
  • You gain one Ward Refresh stack every 90 seconds.
  • Your Vision Wards regain their health points if they haven't been attacked in the last 10 seconds.

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1004 Faerie Charm + 620 g = Amethyst Sightstone

  • +200 health, +50% base mana regeneration
  • Transmutation:
  • You gain one Ward Refresh stack whenever a nearby ward is being destroyed.
  • Your Vision Wards reveal all enemy Stealth Wards in the range.

item 2049 Sightstone + item 1052 Amplifying Tome + 365 g = Opal Sightstone

  • +200 health, +30 ability power
  • Insight:
  • You can place wards at an increased range (1000 units - Feral Flare range).
  • Your Vision Wards true sight range is increased to match their vision range (1100 units).

The linked post contains bigger explanation on the designs.

I'd prefer that they all just work like the current Ruby Sightstone but with different stat options like +30 AP, +20 AD, +300 Mana, etc. Your changes muddy the water as it is no longer about choosing a preferred stat so much as choosing a preferred ward perk.

disregardable3 votes

Not the first time this has been suggested.

SecretAgentHulk7 votes

Someone else is a genius too?!

Voluge3 votes

I believe that the ruby-sightstone can't be built into other items as it's deliberately made to be a choice between stats and vision, as to why it's giving health rather than any other stat, that's because health is nearly never unwelcomed, however implementing other items that would cost about the same amount as it and providing only AP instead of health and so on, that would take some short time to implement (more choices than only ruby-sightstone). They might provide it in the future, but, I'm not too sure that they will do it any time soon.

The conclusion is that it was easier to keep only 1 sight providing item (out over trinkets) which could provide wards in a cost-effective manner. Where about limiting the choice to health only made the programming easier than making one for every single stat, as to why it's providing a stat in the first place, it's probably in order to limit when you could get it. If it would only had been the sight it provided, then you would surely start with it as the first item rather than a gold-providing item, so it became supp-item vs sight item at the lvl 1 buy. However, this is all how I believe they reasoned, I got no proof as to how they decided what they did.

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

In a game where there are 6 different boot enchantments (for something like 50 tier-3 boot combinations) and 16 possible jungle items out of a four-by-four matrix, where items like Zz'rot Gate and Banner of Command exist, I'm not sure that ease of coding is a valid excuse.

Further, with the relative inefficiency of spending 800g for 250 health (two ruby crystals will get you 300hp instead of 250 for the same price, and waiting 200g more will get you a 380hp giant's belt), and because there is a three-ward-on-the-map limit, there is absolutely no reason to upgrade to Ruby Sightstone unless a) you routinely run out of wards before backing or b) you have nothing else to spend money on.

The +250hp is meaningless (what is that, like 3 hits from an ADC that late in the game?) unless HP is actually meaningful to your champ/role (i.e. tank). When was the last time you bought a straight health item on a mage? I'm not arguing for a super-powered awesome item. I'd just like to build a sight item that gives Sona a more meaningful stat than health (AP = heals, yo).

Voluge1 votes

You must have neglected the whole sight vs stats part. Health is a stat that is nearly never unwanted, meaning that it's the perfect stat to synch to an item which is mainly for warding, requiring 800 gold for ONLY the wards would be far too unattractive for most players, where about making a cheap ward-item for 400 gold would be bought far too early in the game. It was an easy solution to make an item not too expensive in terms of wards where about also not making it too easily obtainable at the very start of the game.

Look, sure, they could change the base item but I'm not too sure they are willing to even spend time at such a thing, not to mention that, that would mean the ward item could potentially give about 40+AP with a full upgrade or 20-25 AD, health is harmless enough to not make the support or anyone else for that matter, to end up being a "power-house" with ward item X.

SecretAgentHulk3 votes

I think we have mismatching ideas of what I'm saying. I think Sightstone should remain unchanged. It shouldn't be a level-1 buy, and at the stage in the game when you buy Sightstone, the little shot of health is appreciated. 800g for 4 ward stacks and 150HP is pretty decent.

Ruby Sightstone is not. There's no reason to finish it unless you're a tank or you're done building all the other items you want. HP on e.g. Sona, a back-line poke/heal support, is pretty much worthless.

Upgraded Sightstone (i.e. the Ruby tier) would still cost 1600g total, but only give at most around 400-600g worth of stats. It should be just enough to make supports feel like they got something useful besides one more ward stack (only one; that only lets us stay out for three minutes longer without running out of wards*), but underpowered enough that any non-support who decides to buy Sightstone is forced to make a tradeoff between warding and stats.

My recommended items would be (and I'd include the last two because of off-meta or my-adc-sucks-actually supports):

  • AP Sightstone = 30AP, 150HP
  • HP Sightstone = 400HP (i.e. current Ruby Sightstone)
  • AD Sightstone = 15AD, 150HP and maybe
  • AS Sightstone = 15% attack speed, 150HP

At 1600g, you would never choose these items for the stats they give. You'd choose them for the wards, and the bonus stats a) would be just a little thank-you-for-warding more than a real significant upgrade and b) would give non-tank supports more of a reason to upgrade Sightstone.

*As inefficiently as my rank (myself included, honestly) places them, it's a lot less than three minutes.

Voluge2 votes

Presenting it like that makes it much easier to comprehend, although it nearly makes one question why they even gave sightstone an upgrade-able version in the first place, nearly as if they should had made an upgrade for only warding meaning no extra stats (thus cheaper upgrade after sightstone). Oh well, when you put it that way, I don't have anything to inquire about, you should perhaps send a ticket or something so it could be applied to the game because you never know what they read here.

Linna Excel3 votes

Soraka would prefer a HP/5 sightstone rather than raw HP.

FantasySniper2 votes

She would actually prefer an AP sightstone.

The Rager2 votes

I like the ideas!

FantasySniper2 votes

There doesn't need to be AS or AD.

It's like Riot hates Sightstone T_T The idea for different upgrades has been around forever.

balbraaksel2 votes

I think Riot should at least make a Sightstone suited for Soraka. The 250 health just makes it harder for her because that W passive heals a flat amount while W active costs a percentage of her health. I'd like a 10 hp/5 seconds health regeneration Sightstone.

SecretAgentHulk1 votes

Eh, I think the W passive should either scale with AP or heal a percentage. Seems kinda dumb that it's only a flat amount.

Mediocre Joe2 votes

I rarely reach full build on support in a game so I never upgrade to ruby sightstone

DaCush2 votes

I love this idea. Really do. +1

SmokinSickStyle1 votes

Inb4 Taric gemz build.

But yeah these new versions of upgrated sightstones could give more reason to spend even more gold on them, it would also buff the Blindo Monkerino though....

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

Wards are useless on Lee Sin :P

SmokinSickStyle2 votes

icwutudidder

serpensortia12 votes

Lee doesn't

Cindikle1 votes

As long as the stats it upgrades into don't include offensive stats I see no problem with it.

The item's other stats(non warding) are mainly to give supports a defensive boost. AP/AD or damage on attack are not really a great idea for it.

  • Tenacity(I mainly list this to give supports more options in boots)
  • Armor
  • Mana
  • HP
  • MR
  • MS

Another option could bet that your wards give of Aura's. Nothing huge. But it would give wards a little more strategic play. Although this could be a pain to balance.

SecretAgentHulk1 votes

I think a bit of AP won't hurt anything; it certainly hasn't driven non-supports to buy Frost Queen's Claim. I'd also like an AD item for those times I play Blitz.

Cindikle1 votes

The main reason I say this is that I don't feel as though supports should be a reliable source of damage. While they still have options of getting offensive stats, they shouldn't be easy options. Even if it is only a bit.

FQC requires a bit more of a choice for it's AP. You have to pick one that would work best for your team.

Personally also don't like the idea of changes to vision on these upgrades. It would create balance problems. For example of Pyro's post with the one that increases the range wards can be placed. It would change a lot of how plays are made in catching people. It would hurt pick comps heavily. Maybe if the utility tree had a point in the higher tiers that added these effects based on the type. Forcing the player to actually opt in for that. (The utility tree needs some love anyway)

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

The problem with not including AP is that many supports' utility (especially heals) scale with it.

Cindikle2 votes

Perhaps a unique passive that increases the amount of shielding/healing the support does? Perhaps something that increases the first heal/shield you do. But wont give the increase again for say 30 seconds. This 30 seconds is refreshed every heal/shield you do between then.

In that area, i honestly think this game needs a support stat. I've always thought "Defensive Power" should become a stat. This stat would also see itself on some tank items as there are a few that use shields and self healing. This would allow them to build to their abilities without the need of AP and not put themselves at risk of getting too much damage while being tanky.

Imagine if Skarner would build up his shield. He'd probably have to give up some HP in it's place. But a higher shield would be more reliable. This stat could also be cheaper than AP in general to make it easier for supports to gain. But would be avoided as a stat on damage items. Tank itemization in general is very lacking in almost every area. I think it's because it's all too generalized. An example is that if this stat existed to begin with. Lulu would of been restricted in her support effects to the defensive stat instead of AP.

Dawngate had an amazing itemization setup. Every roll had multiple strong options for items.

Kind of getting off topic though on support stats. In short. If you make the item good enough for a damage dealer to pick up it'll get nerfed. If you don't make it strong enough it will get ignored in most cases. For most healers that 30ap is ~15-20 more health to your target. If you get the Hp upgrade you can just take a hit for them instead. While that's not always possible.

CNY100001 votes

HP is useful for everyone...

SecretAgentHulk1 votes

But it's often not as useful as anything else. There's no reason to upgrade to Ruby until the rest of your build is complete.

DuskPod1 votes

I honestly think that the stats are fine the way they are, junglers should be buying wards anyways, they shouldn't become way stronger for doing something they already should be doing.

SecretAgentHulk3 votes

Not sure 30AP is way stronger.

DuskPod1 votes

while 30 AP wouldn't be way stronger for a mid laner, it would be a huge buff to supports, and here is why: A support is utility based, or poke based, or both. Champions like Janna fall into the former, while champions like Sona fall into the latter. Utility supports wouldn't really benefit from 30 AP, but Poke supports would be much stronger. Imagine a Zilean with an added 30 AP from an item he has to get as a support, or a Sona. Their ratios are already high to compensate for the low amount of AP items they can buy while still maintaining a standard support build, but now we are going to give them AP for no reason. If that happened, poke supports would be much stronger than utility, so utility would fall out of the meta.

SecretAgentHulk1 votes

I'm not sure the distinction is warranted (Sona's utility is just as important as her poke IMO, and if Janna isn't poking with that damn tornado you're doing it wrong), and I haven't played Janna, but she scales off AP, so I don't know why you wouldn't want it on her. Also, it kinda sounds like Nami would be one of these utility supports, and I almost have to stop building support because to be any kind of useful I have to cram AP like a bear about to hibernate. 30AP would be very much appreciated there, more than on Sona even.

cshakes1 votes

Perhaps instead enchants for Ruby Sightstone, with either stats (HP, HP5, Mana, MP5, AP etc) or warding-related passives?

Espy Psyche1 votes

I like the idea of everyone wanting one though. It actually makes for a better game. More wards means less ganks and more objective-related play. This means more strategy and less "I win because I picked Akali/Yasuo/Tristana/Lucian/whoever's OP at the moment".

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

I think the reasoning behind not everyone having Sightstone is that too many wards means too few surprises and too little strategy. If you leave your lane to help another, or if your jungle is heavily counter-warded, there's no point to helping out your lane.

juaumzitus1 votes

Interesting idea, it falls within Riot's idea of making supports more damage oriented.

Also, Lee Sin could use the ad stone and Braum could use the AS one. You could make the hp one with catalyst instead and have it regen.

But thinking again, Irelia top with 3 wards, Lee jungle with 3 wards and support with 3 wards... Damn...........................

Paradrakor1 votes

Lee Sin is already really great with the sightstone early on in my experience. Would the upgrades make it overpowered for him and other dashing/jumping champs?

Lishe1 votes

Make LeeSin unable to buy / use it. All problems solved.

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