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A radical Idea: Dont starve Your supports (Fed support = OP support)

Damagefox··11 votes·3,756 views

I am sure the flame generators will already get started in mere seconds of this being posted. But I have a radical idea. Change the way you treat your supports. Stop expecting them to starve (denying them cs/kills) and maybe share the minions. I have been playing alot of games as a support sona and I make sure its well known that I DO NOT PLAY PASSIVE. and I have noticed a shocking trend. When the adc is accepting that I will be going for cs/kills, we end up winning (or at the very least forcing the other team to surrender) When the adc follows the "traditional" rules for support (Support not allowed cs, support not allowed kills, support must ask before engaging, support must stay behind Adc). What usually follows is division, flames, blames, and ultimately a toxic-laden loss (or I promptly leave the lobby if in team-builder. I state I am not passive, wait to see if they are ok with it, if Not, I leave)

But again. In alot of my recent matches. My adc has done better because they shared the cs, which allowed me to level up faster (along side him, not 3 levels behind him) and was thus able to keep up and better keep him alive. So I think its about time to change this notion that a support is NOT allowed CS, that a support must be starved of CS/Kills and still be expected to be OP when its time for teamfights.

In my observation alot of the cs ends up wasted. Because the allied minions will wear down the enemy minions, and if you have 2-3 minions that are at the point of last hit. The adc can usually only target one of them (unless they have an Area ability) So that means 2 of those 3 are lost income. and are you -that- greedy that you are willing to let the gold from those other 2 last hits go to waste rather than share them with your support? I understand its about common courtesy. I personally wont last hit a minion that my adc is going after, I will find a fresh minion. and Yes I can hear people saying "but there are Items JUST for support! Like lucky coin, talisman of ascension, etc" and my response is...REALLY? You expect your support to get the items needed to keep you alive and heal you up on the 2-3 gold table-scraps while you get 20-40+ gold for each last hit?

As I said, I have had quite a few games and when my ADC is accepting and willing to share in the CS/Kills. We have often not only been able to keep our lane, but Push bot lane farther while the other lanes are still farming. I will continue to stand by my method, I am NOT passive. I will not allow any ADC to tell me to stop taking cs/kills. I am a lane Partner, NOT A LANE SLAVE. So I ask you to at least think it out.

TL:DR: A fed support is an OP support, and an OP support can better keep the adc alive. So dont starve your supports. I am not a passive support and you will not force me back to accepting table scraps when I can have part of the meal.

Puts up the blast doors for the incoming flames, rages, and downvotes

43 Comments

SpecterVonBaren6 votes

As a support main, I feel as if my honor has been insulted with this. Being a support isn't being a slave, it's being a parent trying to raise a kid. I will gladly sustain myself on my gold item and the large game we bring down, but every single small morsel my ADC can get means they'll be that much stronger when we need them. I always make sure to compliment my support when I ADC and many many times I'll hear compliments from my own ADC's when I do well, I don't need CS as support in order to receive respect nor do my job.

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/312/5/1/love_your_support__nami_jinx_by_sanshikisumire-d6s5oh8.png

http://38.media.tumblr.com/f59beb79073583dc0f36dc621d60ed1f/tumblr_net1lhxM5T1rwpjymo6_1280.jpg

http://38.media.tumblr.com/1198ea1bb3400789b8318770926c3d44/tumblr_net1lhxM5T1rwpjymo5_1280.jpg

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Upvoted for art. Also for the substance.

Yandere Carry1 votes

you forgot the varus/lulu one! :D

Tsunday5 votes

My adc has done better because they shared the cs, which allowed me to level up faster (along side him, not 3 levels behind him)

experience is shared by everyone in range so it DOES NOT MATTER who gets the CS you both get THE SAME experience.

Yandere Carry5 votes

Attention any newer players reading this thread: Don't take this guys advice. His method brought him to the glorious rank of like bronze 4. It's not a good idea.

Damagefox1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tang Bohu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Ms6Ri3X,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-02-06T07:03:56.490+0000)

Attention any newer players reading this thread: Don't take this guys advice. His method brought him to the glorious rank of like bronze 4. It's not a good idea.

Basically your arguement is...because of S4 rank, therefore any point I make is invalid, moot, and unworthy of even consideration because.....reasons.

Yandere Carry2 votes

you're one of the lowest ranked players in the world telling millions of people that consistently perform significantly better than you that they are wrong because you said so. Please tell me how you came to such an inspirational conclusion.

Tsunday2 votes

You built runaans on Sona, like Bronze 4 is a compliment right now.

Tsunday4 votes

and maybe share the minions

Holy shit no. The whole reason the support is with the ADC is because the ADC is the most gold dependent champion in the game and the support is the least gold dependent champion in the game. You have GP5 items for a reason, you don't need to take the carry's farm.

When the adc follows the "traditional" rules for support (Support not allowed cs, support not allowed kills, support must ask before engaging, support must stay behind Adc)

Umm okay no that's also wrong. Yes supports aren't supposed to CS, but that is the only thing correct in the list. First off whoever gets the kill gets the kill, what matters is that they're dead. There is nothing saying the support can't get the kill, it's never been a 'traditional rule' it's only a rule with ungrateful noob adcs who think they are godlike and are capable of 1v2ing the lane. Second of all in higher elo (in ANY elo) the supports make the plays. The support does not 'ask' before engaging, the support sets up an engage and the adc follows up on the support's plays. The support spends the rest of laning harassing for the next engage. The support shouldNEVER stand behind the ADC, never, never, never, never play behind the ADC. The support WANTS to be the one taking the harass for their ADC, they HAVE to be the one to engage so that the ADC doesn't tank towers/minions. The support needs presence in the lane and if you stand behind your ADC you have no presence in lane. Look it is only a 'rule' that you stand behind the ADC if you are low elo AND you want to lose lane.

Please for the love of all things LoL don't let anybody slander the name of the 'traditional support rules' by saying that a support should stand behind their carry.

"Traditional rules for Support"

  1. Never blow your disengage ability without awareness of exactly where the enemy midlaner/jungler are-- aka if you're Janna and you use your tornado to harass you're dumb and you deserve to die when someone shows up to gank your lane
  2. Always tank the aggro for as long as you plausibly can--don't make your ADC tank unnecessary minion/tower aggro
  3. Don't set up engages that you don't want your carry to follow up on-- you're the playmaker in the botlane (because you have the cc and if you don't go in first your ADC is tanking the minions) if you set up a bad engage and your ADC follows up and dies you pretty much baited them into their own death
  4. Always play in front of your ADC- your job is to zone the enemy ADC off of the farm on top of setting up plays
  5. Never leave your carry to ward-- if your carry is pushed up farming a wave and there are enemies nearby, don't leave them alone to go ward dragon wait for them to push the wave and fall back before you leave
  6. Don't leave your carry in a teamfight

Those are the rules. All Lulu's who go to ward dragon will return to a dead carry, all Janna's who blow their tornado to attempt to hit me for a whole 2 damage will be ulted and locked down for a double kill, all supports that stand passively behind their ADC will soon be deserted by a 200hp carry going back to base for a few measly pots, any support who makes their adc tank turret when they have health to do so will find themselves giving the enemy a free double kill, any support who leaves their carry open in teamfights will find the enemy assassin spamming laugh over their carry's dead body.

and if you have 2-3 minions that are at the point of last hit. The adc can usually only target one of them

In higher elo supports actually leash their ADCs farm. You're supposed to AA their farm at times to stop this from happening (especially if they don't know how to do that themselves).

and my response is...REALLY? You expect your support to get the items needed to keep you alive and heal you up on the 2-3 gold table-scraps while you get 20-40+ gold for each last hit?

I keep up with my carries on damage as Sona support often getting a DCap, Lichbane, Sorc Boots, and some sort of chalice item on top of my Frost Fang (you never upgrade to FQC) and Sightstone. I also do at least 10k healing. Yes I do expect you to be able to do that, especially when your kit was designed with having little gold in mind. Did you know support items are some of the cheapest items in game?

will continue to stand by my method, I am NOT passive. I will not allow any ADC to tell me to stop taking cs/kills. I am a lane Partner, NOT A LANE SLAVE.

Again don't slander my main. You can have some of the kills, you can't have the ADCs CS. If you want to CS as Sona go midlane. You Can win midlane as Sona even against the 58% winrate Ahri. You are a lane PARTNER, it is a PARTNERSHIP you can't call yourself a partner by turning around and making your ADC your slave and then acting all high and mighty like you're the best thing the world has ever seen.

An ADC is useless without gold. In a 1v1 a 0 item Thresh will beat a 0 item ADC. Every time. Unless they're stupid. A 0 item Nami will beat a 0 item ADC. Every time. Unless they're stupid. A Spellthief Sona will half hit an ADC level 1 in less than .5 seconds every time-- unless she's stupid and KSes a farm to deactivate the free 30 damage from her spellthief. But then again I assume you don't start spellthief because you're farming and you don't get the active if you hit farm

Even though you should always start spellthief over coin on most supports because it actually gives you decent gold.

Sailor Mint2 votes

There's really no hard rules for supports other than there should be communication so everyone is on the same page.

If you want to leave the lane, tell your carry. There's nothing wrong with leaving your ADC to fend for themselves if it means a kill and a turret mid.

You also have zero obligations towards the ADC past the early game. If the fed mid laner is more likely to carry your team than your 0/2 Ezreal, help them succeed. In all honesty, supports that sit bot lane for 20 minutes make me mad. You don't need to sit with your ADC when they're farming, you just want to make sure they have ward coverage. You're more useful elsewhere.

Tsunday2 votes

You also have zero obligations towards the ADC past the early game

"Don't leave your carry in teamfights"

if the fed mid laner is more likely to carry

Don't leave your carry.

I didn't say don't leave your ADC. Hell if the Jax top is carrying stay on his ass. But you don't leave your damage dealer.

There's really no hard rules for supports

They said traditional rules. Nowadays in the competitive games you see supports roam. It's a lot more common now than it was before. There are still traditional rules though (which as you said aren't really set in stone, they're often worded differently but the basics still stand)

There's nothing wrong with leaving your ADC to fend for themselves if it means a kill and a turret mid.

That depends on the situation. Do you leave MF to farm against Leona x Graves when you don't know where the jungler is? You get the kill/tower mid, they get the kill, tower, and dragon down bot. It's situational. The point is as a support if an ADC is farming in the middle of lane (at the river) and their support leaves to go ward dragon, any support with hard engage should be able to initiate a 2v1 on the carry because the support left them. What I stated in the clarification is to wait for them to clear their wave and then tell them to fall back. I didn't say they couldn't farm, but you don't just up and leave them while they're pushed out because it doesn't end well for them more often than not.

In all honesty, supports that sit bot lane for 20 minutes make me mad.

That's an elo differential thing though. In low elo you leave your 4/0 ADC alone botlane to go gank mid and all of a sudden your ADC has lost his turret and is now 4/1 before you actually finish killing the midlaner. I honestly enjoy roaming as a support. I like to be able to ward the enemy jungle and I like making plays in other parts of the map, but the second I leave I get spam pinged back by 3 different players (normally the jungler, adc, and whoever I'm going to go help) because I 'left lane'.

FooDang4 votes

{quoted}

But I have a radical idea. Change the way you treat your supports. Stop expecting them to starve (denying them cs/kills) and maybe share the minions.

Stopped reading right there...you want CS get item 3302 otherwise give all cs to your adc... when both sides back and your ADC can only afford a item 1037 and the enemy ADC is bringing a item 1038 I can tell you who id put my money on

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

CS isn't shared because it ends up in CS getting lost because both people attacked it, and it doesn't synergize with the GP10 support item which would generate more lane gold in total otherwise.

Sharing kills however, is not that big a deal and is not revolutionary; some people run high DPS supports which are basically carries and can't help hitting hard enough to get kills anyway.

Sailor Mint2 votes

Stealing cs as a support is detrimental, you're sharing the lane with an item scaling champion, someone who can use Gold better than you'll ever be able to. Your whole reason for being there is to protect them while they are weak because they are near useless without items.

As a support, you get the luxury of being able to do your job without needing items. You already get enough Gold from your GP10 item to be able to afford Sightstone + Mobos in a timely manner. Assist streaks and inevitable kill secures should be enough for the rest of your build.

If you really want more Gold, rush mobos and camp mid lane. or have adventures in the enemy jungle with appropriate backup.

redniwediS2 votes

There's a big difference between taking CS and taking CS your carry wasn't going to get anyway.

Sailor Mint4 votes

There's nothing wrong with taking unclaimed farm. In fact, solo laners need to stop yelling at junglers and support for "taxing" their lanes when all they're doing is last hit under tower or even out the wave. The issue starts when you go out of your way to take someone else's cs.

Your Jhintleman1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Ms6Ri3X,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-06T06:02:33.935+0000)

There's nothing wrong with taking unclaimed farm. In fact, solo laners need to stop yelling at junglers and support for "taxing" their lanes when all they're doing it last hit under tower or even out the wave. The issue starts when you go out of your way to take someone else's cs.

Speaking truth right there.

Tsunday1 votes

A higher elo support actually leashes CS for their carry to ensure they can get every CS in a wave.

SmokingPuffin2 votes

Sharing CS is a horrible idea. ADCs scale with gold better than supports. It's pretty much definitional. People even figured this out in season 1, when nobody knew anything about how the game worked. I mean seriously, we knew that 0cs was the right way to play even before we knew Ashe mid was stupid. That's how obvious it was.

My adc has done better because they shared the cs, which allowed me to level up faster

Doesn't actually work. You get equal xp regardless of who takes the last hit.

In my observation alot of the cs ends up wasted. Because the allied minions will wear down the enemy minions, and if you have 2-3 minions that are at the point of last hit. The adc can usually only target one of them (unless they have an Area ability) So that means 2 of those 3 are lost income.

Bad players are bad. Feel free to take any CS that won't be taken by your ADC. Related note - if your ADC isn't reliably last hitting every minion in a wave, absent pressure from the opposing team, he should be playing bot games until that's no longer true.

MrSlowDie2 votes

Fed support = OP support ?? Fed ADC = OP ADC = OP turret+champ melter

Damagefox1 votes

{quoted}

Fed support = OP support ?? Fed ADC = OP ADC = OP turret+champ melter

Fed support =Op support Op support is better able to keep adc alive = Adc Gets fed more ADC AND SUPPORT Become OP

Starved support = ineffective healer/support Adc gets all the kills, while support is treated as disposable ADC becomes op while Support has to scavenge, and (if the match goes south) support becomes scapegoat (we lost because support)

MrSlowDie1 votes

{quoted}

Fed support =Op support Op support is better able to keep adc alive = Adc Gets fed more ADC AND SUPPORT Become OP

Starved support = ineffective healer/support Adc gets all the kills, while support is treated as disposable ADC becomes op while Support has to scavenge, and (if the match goes south) support becomes scapegoat (we lost because support)

FED ADC = more kill potential = Support get assist spree = more gold = OP support FED ADC = more turret melted = more gold = OP team

Hypochondria91 votes

You want to know what helps the ADC the most just getting them fed from the beginning and making plays off them. So you both end up really strong.

The Sword Saint2 votes

You're bad at this game. You may not care that you're bad, but the reason people are responding to you in force isn't to put you down, but iust to try and stop other noobs from reading your thread and going off down the wrong track. You entire 'support' philosophy is a typical bronze support player's response to the typical assholish bronze adc's they encounter. You're not alone in your backlash, you're just wrong in that you think it actually helps you get better.

Your 'tactic' is a form of 'cheese' called' a 'kill lane', and is normally better with an early game snowballer like xin or pantheon instead of a support, or at least a support like blitz or leona who can go all in really early. Like all cheese tactics, it will give you an edge early at the high risk of losing literally the entire game if it doesn't work. Even then, if the enemy plays safe and recovers your cheese might not even give you an edge over if you had played traditionally. You may win a few matches here and there by doing what you're doing (much like you may win a few matches here and there as 'support' nidalee), but it will only work at all against players who don't truly understand WHY the 'traditional way' is the way it is and therefor don't apply it correctly.

Any semi competent botlane would recognize that the best way to easily defeat your 'strategy' is to just safely farm without engaging until going back to buy once or twice at which point their adc who has all the gold will be able to 1v2 your whole lane of even split farm, while your extra farmed support is only 20% more effective than the support who has no gold because that's just how those characters scale.

Right now the people you play with are terrible, they miss most last hits, don't have a proper grasp of zoning, miss easy skillshots and walk into skillshots that would have missed, don't see the minimap, don't ward properly, don't chain cc properly to get the longest result (cc doesn't stack in duration, it overlaps so you you stun someone who is already stunned the combined stun duration is less than if you use the second stun right as the first one ends), correctly exhaust a carry BEFORE they start fighting to reduce their damage and lower their resists (instead saving exhaust to slow down a fleeing enemy which massively wastes its power), save high damage abilities to last hit a kill instead of using them as soon as they will land (every point of damage that you 'overkill an enemy by' is wasted and means that you could have killed them sooner and taken less damage while giving them less chances to escape), don't trade in lane properly (ex: standing in position to get a a free auto attack off on the other adc/support when they go to get a last hit since they can either attack back and miss the cs or take the cs and get hit for free but not both), make extremely poor item choices that waste any kind of gold lead or put you even further behind (buying the wrong kind of resists because you don't actually know what kind of damage the enemy does, buying all resists and no hp, buying cdr when you already have 40% and can't get any more, buying attack speed only without any damage or when you already have 2.5as and cant get anymore, buying items that have stats you don't need or use like mana or mana regen on a resourcless champ since you still pay gold for those and that gold is wasted...) , etc. The list goes on.

Everyone at every rank does things wrong, the thing though that people make more mistakes (bigger ones and more frequently) the lower rank they are and it is more the amount of mistakes made and capitalized on that separates the different ranks of players. One of the mistakes that you make early on is losing to inefficient bot lanes that waste most of their scaling growth speed for a minor early level advantage. You might win games with your strategy until you rank gets high enough (maybe low silver) that you hit a wall where EVERYONE you ever face in lane wrecks you because they just play more efficiently than you. When that day comes, you will either learn the value of finding efficiency everywhere you can (and thus will end up playing support a 'traditional' way), or you will simply never advance. The choice is yours.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Support items ain't for free.

You want that early wardstone? Better leave me some CS.

You want my scaling utility to actually help our team? Better leave me some CS.

Not even talking about a 50:50 split here, but I take some. If you flame me I mute you, simple as that.

zane yalgir2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Ms6Ri3X,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-02-06T06:28:01.853+0000)

Support items ain't for free.

You want that early wardstone? Better leave me some CS.

You want my scaling utility to actually help our team? Better leave me some CS.

Not even talking about a 50:50 split here, but I take some. If you flame me I mute you, simple as that.

and then you loss to the adc excessive rage and the teams your supp die for me bs the only reason i can supp better then the others at my elo is i understand the difference mentioned here

welocme to supp at its best

Yandere Carry1 votes

upvoted because the picture

Tsunday1 votes

Actually if you'd just harass the enemy laners instead of taking that CS maybe you and your ADC could get kills which would generate more gold for your lane and get you a faster sightstone.

Miku Lv991 votes

Depends on the support and the skill levels of the players in the game. I've played a lot of games as Sona when I was in gold I/II when I duo'd with someone who was silver IV/V. Usually, I'd end the game doing a good bit more damage to champions than anyone else on my team. In which case, it wasn't a big deal if I took some cs or kills.

But most supports do not scale nearly as well with items as ADCs do. So unless your ADC is a whole heck of a lot worse than you are, it's better to let your ADC get as much of the money as possible.

Damagefox1 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1721135660/208561365?tab=overview

here is the results of my last game. As a fed support. as I said I am not looking to take my ADCs gold, I go after the minions he is not paying attention to. Yes I will often do a bit of damage to soften them up, take out a minion here or there if its weak enough. But I dont intentionally backstab my adc and take the minions he is going after. He was able to survive the late game much better because I helped to get him fed as well as making sure I had enough gold to get the items which helped KEEP HIM ALIVE. I am not sabotaging my adc But that whole "live off your gp10" thing. DOES. NOT. WORK. It assumes that everyone playes the same, that everyone builds the same, that everyone has the same thought process. and the comments about "you are supposed to work off GP10 items" comes across as "You will take the gold table scraps you are given and Be happy about it!" I had the gold to help keep him alive early game and set up kills to get him fed. You can say all you want about how "support is supposed to do this" or "adc is Supposed to get all the gold" But I have been having wins like this one after another. I get enough gold so that I can get the items I need to help better back up my adc. and everytime i have lost it has been because the adc has been one of those "know your place!" adcs.

and those telling me "well go kill jungle monsters while your adc is farming" oh yes of course, why dont I just go kill some jungle monsters, I am sure the other team will be happy to stand around and wait till I get back. And I am sure the jungler on our team will be so happy the support is robbing him of jungle creeps which HE needs to level. So its a no-win scenario..and often why supports get so much hate. Support goes to kill some jungle while adc is farming, enemy team takes advantage and takes out adc while support is killing jungle monsters. ADC rages at support and the flame begins. meanwhile jungle (who may have needed that jungle creep) is now at a loss as his jungle is stolen, and further rages at support. Support gets flamed by all sides, stresses out and starts making mistakes, leading to a downward spiral ending in a loss.

TL:DR you can think what you want, but these match results show me my method works. Even if it only works for me. Maybe more will be willing to give it a shot. But too many people rage because of the way things are "supposed to be" (support is -supposed- to give all the gold to adc, adc needs it more)

GG

Yandere Carry3 votes

this is a bronze 26 match. you built runaans on sona... how the hell do you expect anyone to take this type of stuff serious. Is this serious? I started laughing at that match recap. It's obvious nobody in that queue had a great grasp of the game. (which is whatever because everyone has a different understanding and different obligations elsewhere; not everyone can pour time into this).... But the main issue is your pretentious attitude about the whole thing. High elo is the pinnacle of play, IE they play the game the most effective way. They clearly know something you don't which is why they are high elo and you are low elo. Take the advice and grow from it.

Tsunday2 votes

"live off your gp10" thing. DOES. NOT. WORK..... "you are supposed to work off GP10 items" comes across as "You will take the gold table scraps you are given and Be happy about it!"

When I can build DCap, Sorcs, Lich Bane, and at least a Chalice on top of my SS and tier 2 support item in a 30-35 minute game I don't consider it table scraps.

Tsunday4 votes

Let's look at your build.

you built Lucidity boots on top of 40% CDR. Frozen heart gives you 20%, Morello gives you 20%. You can only have 40% CDR and you should have CDR on your runes/masteries.

Sorc Boots give you more damage.

Also runaans isn't good on most champions.

Also you died 15 times that game. Let's talk about 'good' and 'carrying' you can start carrying by not giving the enemies a lot of gold.

You gave First Blood to Kog'maw

You gave 2nd blood to Kog'maw

you DIDN'T carry your lane.

Your Jhintleman1 votes

{quoted}

Let's look at your build.

you built Lucidity boots on top of 40% CDR. Frozen heart gives you 20%, Morello gives you 20%. You can only have 40% CDR and you should have CDR on your runes/masteries.

Sorc Boots give you more damage.

Also runaans isn't good on most champions.

Also you died 15 times that game. Let's talk about 'good' and 'carrying' you can start carrying by not giving the enemies a lot of gold.

You gave First Blood to Kog'maw

You gave 2nd blood to Kog'maw

you DIDN'T carry your lane.

Don't want to be unkind but Alex makes a valid argument.

Tsunday2 votes

Honestly I wouldn't be so rude if the whole OP (and every response they've placed on the topic since) had not pretty much been slander against my beloved support role.

FooDang1 votes

Saw your build... www.lolclass.com The information is pretty basic but its good for beginners...

zane yalgir1 votes

{quoted}

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1721135660/208561365?tab=overview

here is the results of my last game. As a fed support. as I said I am not looking to take my ADCs gold, I go after the minions he is not paying attention to. Yes I will often do a bit of damage to soften them up, take out a minion here or there if its weak enough. But I dont intentionally backstab my adc and take the minions he is going after. He was able to survive the late game much better because I helped to get him fed as well as making sure I had enough gold to get the items which helped KEEP HIM ALIVE. I am not sabotaging my adc But that whole "live off your gp10" thing. DOES. NOT. WORK. It assumes that everyone playes the same, that everyone builds the same, that everyone has the same thought process. and the comments about "you are supposed to work off GP10 items" comes across as "You will take the gold table scraps you are given and Be happy about it!" I had the gold to help keep him alive early game and set up kills to get him fed. You can say all you want about how "support is supposed to do this" or "adc is Supposed to get all the gold" But I have been having wins like this one after another. I get enough gold so that I can get the items I need to help better back up my adc. and everytime i have lost it has been because the adc has been one of those "know your place!" adcs.

and those telling me "well go kill jungle monsters while your adc is farming" oh yes of course, why dont I just go kill some jungle monsters, I am sure the other team will be happy to stand around and wait till I get back. And I am sure the jungler on our team will be so happy the support is robbing him of jungle creeps which HE needs to level. So its a no-win scenario..and often why supports get so much hate. Support goes to kill some jungle while adc is farming, enemy team takes advantage and takes out adc while support is killing jungle monsters. ADC rages at support and the flame begins. meanwhile jungle (who may have needed that jungle creep) is now at a loss as his jungle is stolen, and further rages at support. Support gets flamed by all sides, stresses out and starts making mistakes, leading to a downward spiral ending in a loss.

TL:DR you can think what you want, but these match results show me my method works. Even if it only works for me. Maybe more will be willing to give it a shot. But too many people rage because of the way things are "supposed to be" (support is -supposed- to give all the gold to adc, adc needs it more)

GG

dont humor these trolls anymore there the reson msot players are so toxic me and you get it but they dont and wont and yes its becuase they are stupid

Damagefox1 votes

Your pictures are cutesy and all, But you fail to see what I am getting at. Maybe its just my asperger's (in b4 "what are you, some sort of aspie?) but this is how I see it. And personally I dont care how 'wrong' you think I am League in its current state is like a chess game, the community are the pieces. But instead of aiming for the checkmate, the pieces all fight over who is better based on how many enemy pawns they took out (Im better than you because...KDA) King and Queen sit around talking down to thier team because apparently they know everything there is to know, they were never the "noobs" they call the rest of the team. The Knights Fight with the bishops over who has the better angle. The castles/rooks get trashed because they can only move a certain way, how dare they try and step outside thier own path. And the pawns are sent off to thier deaths only to be talked down to for being "feeders"

So the team is too busy fighting over who is better, and one by one they are taken out. Then they turn around and fight over who is to take the blame for the loss so that the rest of the pieces dont have to feel bad that they contributed to the loss.

Your talk of babysitting the adc, sorry But I dont buy it. If you want someone to babysit you and stroke your ego telling you how much of a perfect special boy/girl you are. If you want someone to coddle you and spoonfeeding you kills while they are have to make due with whatever they off items. Then go get your mom to play league with you. I may be a support but I will play as an equal, not as the support you can throw under the bus as soon the match starts going south.

If I am playing support, I am there to back you up, But I have no interest in resigning myself to some frail little thing that has to build off whatever gold/gp10 I get while all the gold is dumped on ADC, Most of which ends up going to waste by the end of the match.

I dont care what you think of me or my "bronze" rank. I am playing in a way that works for me, and leads me and my team to more wins. Who cares if my adc is only able to get a quadra and not that glorious pentakill. Yeah I know, I die. But ya know...They happen! you can try your best to limit how many. But again I couldnt care less. I am aiming for the end game, that Victory.

Again maybe its just me being an "aspie" that leads me the wrong way. But this is how I see things. Not that it matters. Because all people care about is "whats ur Kda?, whats ur rank?" A bronze and a challenger could make the exact same point. The bronze will be laughed off, while the challenger will have everyone in total agreement. You try and discredit any point I am trying to make by pointing to my rank/kda/build/etc.

Your Jhintleman1 votes

I believe in a balance, I do not think that a support should be actively taking cs, (unless they have a Relic Shield) with the exception being ; a missing adc, and when the adc for some reason can't (or won't) take it. I don't believe in flaming, as you put it, a support for securing a kill, because an assist is fine, but more importantly the other adc is behind.

The reason, complete sharing won't work, is that you will have two weaker champs (unless the enemy plays foolishly, of course) while the opponent adc, if they get an average amount of cs, will be stronger as a whole than either of those champions. I agree a support should not be, as you said, "Starved" but a support should not be having a large income in lane (unless they are using the Frost Queen's Claim). It also depends on the Champion in question.

Damagefox1 votes

{quoted}

I believe in a balance, I do not think that a support should be actively taking cs, (unless they have a Relic Shield) with the exception being ; a missing adc, and when the adc for some reason can't (or won't) take it. I don't believe in flaming, as you put it, a support for securing a kill, because an assist is fine, but more importantly the other adc is behind.

The reason, complete sharing won't work, is that you will have two weaker champs (unless the enemy plays foolishly, of course) while the opponent adc, if they get an average amount of cs, will be stronger as a whole than either of those champions. I agree a support should not be, as you said, "Starved" but a support should not be having a large income in lane (unless they are using the Frost Queen's Claim). It also depends on the Champion in question.

I understand, But as I said. I am a support, I am there to back you up. I am not a jerk about it But I will get relic shield and I will go after minions the adc ISNT targeting (if adc gets the ones infront, I will go for the ones in back) and more often than not I will back off if the adc goes in to last hit the minion I tried to go after. But I have had games where I kill one minion and the adc completely LOSES IT!

ERMAGAWD WTF STOP TAKIN MY CS! SUPPORTS ARENT SUPPOSED TO HAVE CS GG IM DONE. REPORT THIS NOOB

or something like that...all over one single minion they werent even targetting in a wave of...however many.

I am here to fight, I am here to win. I am here to keep you alive. But if you want me to be able to effectively KEEP you alive. I need CS and you can tell me to get frost queen or relic shield till you are blue in the face.. But the adc doesnt need ALL the gold for the entirety of the game (its just greedy) so you cant starve out the support and still expect them to be effective in a teamfight working off the minor scraps from gp10 items and such. But if people want to stick with thier old ways and how its "supposed to be done" then fine. Thats why I tell them at the start of each match "Fair warning, I am not a Passive support" "I will cover you but I will be going after cs now and then as well, though I wont be a jerk about it" (meaning as I said, I dont go after cs the adc is actively targetting)

If they object, I will leave and find a new lobby. and sinse doing so I have been having ALOT more matches end in victory. Because I can get the gold to better keep the adc alive, which then allows them to get more kills, which boosts them, and we both become stronger and more effective in teamfights

But thats my way. as I said, You want a support who will coddle you and spoon feed you kills while telling you how special you are...maybe get your mom onto league. I am a lane partner, NOT YOUR BABYSITTER.

Ale non è male1 votes

Last hit the minions your ADC won't get is not bad because gold do not go wasted unless he specifically ask you to not do it so because he want to freeze lane or let the enemy wave advance. Last hit the minions that your ADC can get is bad because you are subtracting gold to a your mate that needs it to get its damage items as soon as he can get, in the same way a jungler would tax lane The question is: If your ADC would be a pretty good mechanical ADC that can last hit well would you steal him minions? And why you would do it so making him waeker? Your thought is way too radical, as much as the one of those salty ADC mains that got mad for supports getting kills even when they have dished out a relevant amount of damage and hasn't hit when the enemy were going to die to steal it. Only noob and stupid people are unhappy to see their mate that has to keep them alive being fed and get an assist for themselves

About the engage part, where the hell did you listen that the "traditional rule" is that ADC decide when to engage? It's the support the one that decide, becauue he is generally the one that can bring the CC to the table to do the engage. He has to coordinate with the ADC because he can't engage alone and has to be sure that his ADC follow up on the engage with his damage, but this is not because it is the ADC that decide, on pro teams the shot callers are usually the supports or the ones that provide the enage(some junglers and top laners) , not the carries. On champs with long range CC/puuls/hooks( Blitz, Thresh, Morg, Annie to name few) support can pretty much dictate the engage in every kind of situation when they hit the CC and ADCs has only to follow. Supports are "forced" to ask when their engage would put them in an all-in situation (main example Leona), but this is kinda of understandable because of the reasons mentioned above

Damagefox1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Ms6Ri3X,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-02-06T11:11:59.640+0000)

Last hit the minions your ADC won't get is not bad because gold do not go wasted unless he specifically ask you to not do it so because he want to freeze lane or let the enemy wave advance. Last hit the minions that your ADC can get is bad because you are subtracting gold to a your mate that needs it to get its damage items as soon as he can get, in the same way a jungler would tax lane The question is: If your ADC would be a pretty good mechanical ADC that can last hit well would you steal him minions? And why you would do it so making him waeker? Your thought is way too radical, as much as the one of those salty ADC mains that got mad for supports getting kills even when they have dished out a relevant amount of damage and hasn't hit when the enemy were going to die to steal it. Only noob and stupid people are unhappy to see their mate that has to keep them alive being fed and get an assist for themselves

About the engage part, where the hell did you listen that the "traditional rule" is that ADC decide when to engage? It's the support the one that decide, becauue he is generally the one that can bring the CC to the table to do the engage. He has to coordinate with the ADC because he can't engage alone and has to be sure that his ADC follow up on the engage with his damage, but this is not because it is the ADC that decide, on pro teams the shot callers are usually the supports or the ones that provide the enage(some junglers and top laners) , not the carries. On champs with long range CC/puuls/hooks( Blitz, Thresh, Morg, Annie to name few) support can pretty much dictate the engage in every kind of situation when they hit the CC and ADCs has only to follow. Supports are "forced" to ask when their engage would put them in an all-in situation (main example Leona), but this is kinda of understandable because of the reasons mentioned above

I learned that rule a long time ago. I was playing a Soraka support (before her kit change and that was about the time I stopped playing support). I had a varus adc and was doing my best to protect him, healing when he wanted and such. I had the bush warded and I noticed that varus was low enough that the enemy cait was positioning an ult for a last hit. I ran in and managed to silence the enemy cait long enough that my adc was able to notice and back away, recalling. But instead of a "thank you" I got a different response. "OMG WTF u Noob. You need to ask permission before you engage an enemy!" So he proceeded to rage and abandon his lane, then flipped out at me and called to report me because I was "needlessly Dying" When I was left trying to defend the lane solo...the lane that he abandoned after his verbal tyrade.

So thats when I learned that rule, learned to hate playing support, and decided to take it upon myself to level up and start skimming cs here and there so if it happens again, I would at least be able to hold my own when the adc has a raging temper tantrum for whatever reason and decides to just abandon the lane, leaving me to fend it off myself.

and thats about how I came up with the method I use now. I tried it a few games and found it worked. I have been getting more wins and personally I dont care if its not how its "supposed to be done", I dont care about what works for everyone else. this way works for both me and my adc. and it is shooting up my win ratio.

Ale non è male2 votes

So you are telling us that you learned the "traditional support rules" upon following the reasons of a guy that was clearly an idiot because he didn't ackwnoledge and praise that you were saving his ass upon Cait ulting, and believing that those idiot was saying was the common rule you came out and went with a method ewhich is the opposite of what the most skilled players in the game do? Experimenting new and radicals idea is fine, as long as there is some kind of reasoning behind than "i've learned a rule that I don't like from an idiot that don't know how to play the game so I should clearly do the opposite"

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