Phase rush needs improvement

Marshmallow Wolf·Dec 8, 2017·17 votes·1,721 views

Hello everyone. I'm here to talk about phase rush and my hour long Aurelion Game versus Morgana in a game of TT, and why its practically never worth it to take. https://imgur.com/gallery/Oe9s7Hf In an hour long game, morgana did 8100 damage with comet.

https://imgur.com/8dwxOCc I managed to proc this only 36 times when we were constantly fighting.

There were so many close fights that resulted in someone living because phase rush doesn't do damage, and doesn't really help kiting all that much because of the duration ( at least in my opinion.) Because I took this rune, I was missing out on a good chunk of damage in teamfights. I understand it is a tradeoff, but it feels so dull compared to the original stormraiders surge that more reliably proc'd.

This is an extreme case but I hope some of you agree with me.

18 Comments

KoKobotoDec 8, 20174 votes

4 words.

Phase Rush Tahm Kench.

Marshmallow WolfDec 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

4 words.

Phase Rush Tahm Kench.

That's the problem with the new runes. They're abusable on special cases.

KoKobotoDec 8, 20171 votes

Yeah I haven't been experimenting much with this rune because on PBE all I did was try this build, AP Kog'Maw and Varus, Zombienaut Sion, and some other stuff.

I imagine though it's good on assassins that want to get in and out as per usual. I took Surge on Talon like always before and I'd probably take it now too if I got to playing Talon. Also I'd imagine it'd be good on some tanks or juggernauts that suddenly are able to get through your front line.

Troll for TrumpDec 8, 20173 votes

Phase Rush is harder to proc on Talon than Stormraider's

KoKobotoDec 9, 20171 votes

Lmfao what? Unless you're only using 2 attacks for your assassination your combo should involve more than 3 hits a majority of the time xD

Troll for TrumpDec 10, 20171 votes

It's 3 separate spells/attacks. You mostly won't notice a difference, but sometimes you won't get the 3rd proc via aa in and it can bone you really hard. Punishes you a lot more for messing up than stormraider's.

in addition, Stormraider's MS remains a constant 40% while phase rush needs to scale as you level

KoKobotoDec 10, 20171 votes

Lmfao if you're only using 2 hits you're not getting the kill anyways xD

Sounds like a mechanical error, not a problem with the rune lololol

Troll for TrumpDec 10, 20171 votes

You ignored the other point. And yeah, if you don't get 2 hits you aren't getting the kill. That's the point. Stormraider's or Phase Rush Talon isn't meant to go for all-in kills, otherwise you'd take electrocute. It's meant for hit-and-run burst.

What if you mess up the burst? You get even more screwed with Phase Rush than you would with Stormraider's, for the previous 2 reasons. You won't land the burst every time.

You're straw manning.

Phase Rush is worse than Stormraider's, and harder to proc.

KoKobotoDec 10, 20171 votes

Loool but electrocute also requires 3 separate hits xD. I don't take the specific rune to change what the Talon does. I'm picking Talon to kill and the runes I pick help me find different ways of getting kills. It might change the steps but at the end of the day I'm picking Talon to assassinate and assassinate is always #1, I'm not picking Talon to hit and run.

Lool if I mess up the burst it's a mechanical error, not the rune. Talon specifically is easy to pull off so I have no reason not to screw up unless I suck ass or the enemy outplays me. In which case I deserve to be punished. Same with storm raiders, what if I miss all my shit, I'm not getting the movement speed loool. Electrocute is the same once again loool.

Troll for TrumpDec 10, 20171 votes

Loool but electrocute also requires 3 separate hits xD.

Straw man. Electrocute means you're committing to an all in while Stormraider's and Phase rush are specifically for hit and run. It doesn't matter if electrocute needs 3 hits, your intent isn't to hit-and-run. Different playstyles.

I don't take the specific rune to change what the Talon does. I'm picking Talon to kill and the runes I pick help me find different ways of getting kills.

Of course you're trying to get kills either way, you just have different ways of doing so. You aren't changing what Talon does, you're changing his playstyle. Stormraider's/Phase Rush doesn't mean you're going hit-and-run poke. You hit-and-run, get them low, then kill. Electrocute does the same thing, but more spaced out, more commitment, and more dmg.

Lool if I mess up the burst it's a mechanical error, not the rune. Talon specifically is easy to pull off so I have no reason not to screw up unless I suck ass or the enemy outplays me. In which case I deserve to be punished.

Straw man

Same with storm raiders, what if I miss all my shit, I'm not getting the movement speed loool.

Again, stormraider's is still flat-out better than phase rush. Miss all your stuff you'll miss proccing either phase rush or stormraider's. Stormraider's procs on % dmg in comparison to phase rush proccing on 3 separate abilities/aas. Stomraider's is easier to proc in lane. Stormraider's also still gives higher ms for the majority of the game, as Phase rush ms increases as you level.

Look, if you don't know what you're talking about just stop posting.

KoKobotoDec 12, 20171 votes

If you're gonna bring up weak points to back up your argument don't go complaining about straw manning because that's not my intention at all. I'm just taking down those parts of your argument that you bring up xD Unless of course you wanted me to ignore them and just not reply looool

There's no such thing as hit-and-run for an assassin such as Talon. If you don't get the kill you've not done your job, even more so if the enemy has any sort of healing or is able to return to the fight soon. Regardless your enemy will most likely be a range squishy typically, meaning that as a melee assassin you're gonna be done with your damage while that ranged champion still has the safety of range. So what often should be a 4v4 if you don't kill the squishy straight up is still really a 4v5 for most squishy champions against assassins. If you don't get the kill as an assassin using your cooldowns you're not doing your job.

Knowing this, regardless of what rune you take as an assassin champion you're ALWAYS going to be going all-in because that's the nature of assassins. Of course there are some exceptions but these champions wouldn't even take stormraiders or phase rush because they have reset mechanics that grant them other forms of mobility. A champion such as Talon does not so it's all in always outside of the lane phase as he's an ultimate reliant champion and he's way to react to if his ultimate is down. For all assassins it's poke and kill during lane phase but outside of lane phase that isn't an option for many. As soon as you go into melee range you're already committed to a full engage.

It's funny how you're calling me out for straw manning yet you went and changed your preposition right here xD

Phase Rush is harder to proc on Talon than Stormraider's

That's what I'm arguing against. Phase rush isn't harder to proc on a champion like Talon by any means because his combo involves a point click, a massive AoE, and a fast AoE skill shot, plus you can also throw in an AA anytime. Now say you're against a champion that has any sort of shield that blocks damage or is tankier. There are way more instances where Talon can get off 3 unique hits over 30% max health damage. So if we're just straight up being literal Phase Rush is easier to proc than Storm raiders WAAAAAAY more often xP. Talon also gets aa-q-aa for a really fast AA reset lol.

Sire HippingtonDec 8, 20174 votes

I think the main issue is how much damage other keystones offer. You're giving up way more damage in comparision than you did with stormraiders cause other options now do more damage. Just as example: Thunderlords did 10 - 180 (based on level) + (30% bonus AD) + (10% AP) magic damage Electrocute does 50 - 220 (based on level) (+ 50% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP) **Adaptive **damage.

P.S. it's rather fishy to compare an hour long game on SR with a usually rather short game on TT... edit: wow, 1hour in TT...didn't think that's possible

Marshmallow WolfDec 8, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2MUhxVKW,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-12-08T11:50:37.785+0000)

I think the main issue is how much damage other keystones offer. You're giving up way more damage in comparision than you did with stormraiders cause other options now do more damage. Just as example: Thunderlords did 10 - 180 (based on level) + (30% bonus AD) + (10% AP) magic damage Electrocute does 50 - 220 (based on level) (+ 50% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP) **Adaptive **damage.

P.S. it's rather fishy to compare an hour long game on SR with a usually rather short game on TT...

My bad, this was the same TT game. I played vs Morgana in the bot lane . Edited.

ReySolomonDec 8, 20171 votes

I like phase rush atm but if it can get buffed up why not it isn't broken right now.

Marshmallow WolfDec 8, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I like phase rush atm but if it can get buffed up why not it isn't broken right now.

I just don't know if it should get damage ..(maybe adaptive during the phase rush?) Or another benefit.

ReySolomonDec 8, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Çum Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2MUhxVKW,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-12-08T03:26:58.805+0000)

I just don't know if it should get damage ..(maybe adaptive during the phase rush?) Or another benefit.

They clearly aren't going to add that because of Cassiopeia/aure/ryze etc BUT it wouldn't hurt to make the movement speed last longer right?

AhrisDec 8, 20171 votes

For sol try autoing more often. And maybe taking Comet or Aery is better.

RyusaetherDec 8, 20171 votes

I think they should make the mov speed you get more relevant by increasing the value or the active time you get it.

And plus I think Sol might benefit a mini update on his abilities, I'm waiting for it since they announced it almost a year ago (or some months) I think. Something like make the balls speed go faster based on your movement speed and thus reducing the movespeed he loses by turning (E passive), though this would make him lose dmg output by simply slowing him I fear. But then here comes the Swiftness boots and Phase Rush.

Dunno, hope Riot has some ideas. I mean Sol is definitely playable, but not that interesting from an interactive gameplay aspect (though it fits him being a space Dragon and killing by simply standing there).