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Riot, please don't nerf Garen.

TheMoobile·12/5/2019, 11:45:31 PM·3 votes·1,398 views

after these changes Garen will be weaker when fighting a single enemy compared to pre-rework Garen. Lmao.

I'll use two starting items for both of these comparisons: Trifroce first and then Black Cleaver first.

OLD E:[5 - 10 spins] Multiple Targets: [14/18/22/26/30 +(36%/37%/38%/39%/40% AD)] Total Damage [Max Rank] (Black Cleaver): 30(+40% AD) = [30 + 72.8] * 10 = 1028 Total Damage [Max Rank] (Trinity Force): 30(+40% AD) = [30 + 66.8] * 10 = 968

Single Target: [18.6/23.9/29.2/34.5/39.9 +(47.8%/49.2%/50.5%/51.8%/53.2% AD)] Total Damage [Max Rank] (Black Cleaver): 39.9(+53.2% AD) = [39.9 + 96.8] * 10 = 1367 Total Damage [Max Rank] (Trinity Force): 39.9(+53.2% AD) = [39.9 + 88.8] * 10 = 1287

And now for the new (nerfed) E! Brace yourselves.

**NEW E: ***Note: Garen gains 62% AS at level 18 base, so +2 Spins. [7 (+1 Spin per 25% AS)] Multiple Targets: [4/8/12/16/20 +(0 - 6.6) +(32%/34%/36%/38%/40% AD)] Total Damage [Max Rank] (Black Cleaver): 20(+6.6)(+40%AD) = [20 + 6.6 + 72.8] * 9 = 894.6 (!) Total Damage [Max Rank] (Trinity Force): 20(+6.6)(+40%AD) = [20 + 6.6 + 66.8] * 11 = 1027.4

TriForce + Innate ATK SPD @ 18 provide 11 spins now.

Nearest Target: [5/10/15/20/25 +(0 - 8.2) +(40%/42.5%/45%/47.5%/50% AD)] Total Damage [Max Rank] (Black Cleaver): 25(+8.2)(+50%AD) = [25 + 8.2 + 91] * 9 = 1117.8 (!!) Total Damage [Max Rank] (Trinity Force): 25(+8.2)(+50%AD) = [25 + 8.2 + 83.5] * 11 = 1283.7

While these nerfs don't look too large do remember what we had to sacrifice for this arguably ~70 damage increase on new E spin.We had to lose 20 ARMOUR + MAGIC RESIST from W passive. We lost 30% damage reduction on W and we got a passive which is WORSE LATE GAME.

EDIT: Also really sad that single target, black cleaver Garen with OLD SPIN, has the highest damage number.

IN SHORT THESE NERFS MEAN OLD GAREN RUSHING BLACK CLEAVER DID MORE DAMAGE TO YOU THAN NEW GAREN RUSHING TRIFORCE LMAO, NO-ONE COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS DAMAGE BACK THEN - SO WHY COMPLAIN ABOUT IT NOW?

19 Comments

Mavëríck12/5/2019, 11:48:10 PM7 votes

Riot do not listen to this Garen main.

ThisName1sDumb12/6/2019, 12:15:17 AM4 votes

Garen needs nerfs for sure. He's currently simply too strong. Honestly though I think the current proposed nerfs might be a little bit much. Personally, I think a much better nerf would be to make his e only give 2 stacks of conqueror like a normal ability and see how that pans out. Instantly stacking Conqueror is just a bit too strong.

Perhaps the nerfs aren't as bad as I'm thinking though, I guess we'll find out. Thinking about it, it might not be that bad. If your only attack speed item is Trinity, you'll end up with +102% AS at level 18, meaning 4 bonus spins, compared to 5 bonus spins in the same situation currently. I think next patch I'll probably be going a build something like this: Triforce > Merc Treads/ Ninja Tabis > Sterak's > Tanky with maybe another damage item like Death's Dance, Essence Reaver, IE, or even a Youmuu's (but probably not a Youmuus tbh). Another effective build could be Triforce, berserker's greaves, and a stormrazor, given that stormrazor and berserker's together will give exactly +2 spins, and of course stormrazor has a lot of useful aspects to it including giving you some mixed damage, 75% slow, and some crit chance with a good amount of AD.

All in all, I think the nerf is well deserved, and Garen will still have some good build options.

EDIT: And oh, the reason people complain about his damage now but not back then is because he can actually use conqueror not which gives him a lot of damage.

The thigh guy12/6/2019, 12:30:58 AM4 votes

No. Gut this failed champion and add him to the pile of reworks that are just fucking mistakes.

Andarius12/6/2019, 12:12:51 AM3 votes

First, I look at your numbers and notice from the math, you're only citing max lvl garen, which... doesn't matter... games are over and decided so long before then, those numbers are pretty irrelevant...

Second, the numbers are showing MAX lvl garen with ONLY trinity force and ONLY a Black cleaver to compare, you're telling me the only points in a game where this damage would matter are at max lvl, and ONLY when he has a black cleaver or ONLY when he has a trinity force?

How bout like... do the math for points and breakpoints in the game that matter, like lvl 1, 3, 6, and 9 (1 when u first get the ability, 3 when you have all 3, 6 cuz... duh... and 9 when you max 1) Cuz like... those are breakpoints that actually matter, not EXCLUSIVELY lvl 18 with 1 item to boot.

Check the math IDK... comparing lvl 11 PD, Trinity Garen, with and without Zerk Grieves, vs Garen with BC, and Steraks, then post something... cuz those breakpoints just don't even matter,

THIRD, you're completely leaving out armor shred calculations which... BC gives aswell as his e, so ya know, look at the equations for armor and the actually percentages you're shredding for an actual accurate "Real" representation of damage, cuz lets face it, no garen with exclusively a trinity force is actually dealing 1,000+ dmg with a spin to anyone with any semblance of armor, which matters.

Half baked post honestly, if you're going to go through the effort to actually convince the company doing the changes not to do something should probably think bout it like a developer.

True Garen12/12/2019, 4:14:56 AM2 votes

Everybody complaining on OP...

If they just undid the rework, except for the animation cleanup, and a couple of minor QoL, then it sounds like that would make both sides happy.

Andarius12/6/2019, 6:12:52 AM1 votes

Also the fact you took the time to look me up means you can clearly do the proper research to actually get ppls attention on an issue... so I'd advise doing it instead of purposely compaining on a forum with no purpose other than personal gratitude and argumentative reasoning.