Why does Zhonyas Hourglass last so damn long?

Agidyne·Nov 5, 2014·1 votes·730 views

Seriously, items like Zhonyas are bought, not because you are against an AD mid laner, not because you want to ignore someone's highest damage ability (other than Death Mark) but because you just want to stay there and wait for you cooldowns to come back up.

Why is that a thing?

You made Sivir's spellshield a 1 second up time or something, why not do the same to this item?

I'm sure when the Zhonyas Ring was designed back then, it wasn't created with the purpose of letting medium cooldown hard hitting mages like Orianna or Xerath get 1 more spell rotation before dying if they missplayed terribly, it was created with the purpose of letting mages having a small time frame where they could dodge eachothers ultimates and therefor, avoid being destroyed in 1 rotation. (Annie, Brand, Veigar were pretty contested mid laners after the AD Mid "meta" fell off)

11 Comments

58304318_DELNov 5, 20142 votes

Yeah, it's pretty annoying item, I must admit and I feel like it's a "must have" late game item for mages, which I don't really like. It takes away our build freedom. But if you were to nerf the duration of it, you would have to offer a cheaper recipe to compensate...

BeatzBoyFTWNov 5, 20142 votes

Cause I do not want to spend a freaking 3250gold for a 1 second invulnerability.

Sozan5Nov 5, 20141 votes

This would be a valid point if not for the fact that Zhonya is also Tier 1 AP item (120) and is 110% cost efficient without it's active.

I think that Zhonya should be changed a bit - the item should be a defensive option, not both offensive and defensive. Let's say: +400 Health +60 AP +50 Armor +10% CDR Builds out: Seeker's Armguard (1160g) Kindlegem (850g) Blasting Wand (860g) Combine cost: 400g Total cost: 3270g (10g more expensive) - item is 112,8% cost efficient (a bit more than the current one)

Would be more useful to low-medium ranged mages, while being less useful on assassins and high range mages.

Lord DusteonNov 5, 20142 votes

This would be a valid point if not for the fact that Zhonya is also Tier 1 AP item (120) and is 110% cost efficient without it's active.

I think that Zhonya should be changed a bit - the item should be a defensive option, not both offensive and defensive. Let's say: +400 Health +60 AP +50 Armor +10% CDR Builds out: Seeker's Armguard (1160g) Kindlegem (850g) Blasting Wand (860g) Combine cost: 400g Total cost: 3270g (10g more expensive) - item is 112,8% cost efficient (a bit more than the current one)

Would be more useful to low-medium ranged mages, while being less useful on assassins and high range mages.

Why would a champion building an item for an invulnerability active want to spend extra gold on defensive stats though? If you're getting lots of tank stats, there's little incentive to get the item unless you're both against an AD mid, don't scale the best on AP, and need the active, which makes it much less useful on basically everyone.

Sozan5Nov 5, 20141 votes

Why would a champion building an item for an invulnerability active want to spend extra gold on defensive stats though? If you're getting lots of tank stats, there's little incentive to get the item unless you're both against an AD mid, don't scale the best on AP, and need the active, which makes it much less useful on basically everyone.

Not really. Makes it somewhat less useful on many champions, yes - but that's my point. Right now this item is a no-brainer. There is no choice involved getting this item, as even against full AP team it's still a solid pick (due to huge AP and incredibly good active). I believe it should be changed to fullfil the defensive role, not be just the best choice for both defense and offense for AP champs.

Or it could just get the active changed somewhat - maybe with simple "Cooldowns are frozen for the duration of static". Would make it a bit worse choice for all those assassins (and some mages too) that get this to nullify the risk that should be inherent to their kit while being nearly unchanged for champions that really need this item (Fiddlesticks, Morgana, Kennen etc). But even then I think it should have its AP reduced to 100 (to keep it on par with Rylai) with compensation somewhere else.

AgidyneNov 5, 20141 votes

Well, it's not like it isn't giving 120 AP to you aswell.

And 50 Armor.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 5, 20141 votes

Well, it's not like it isn't giving 120 AP to you aswell.

And 50 Armor.

And a 3300gold which's passive is a big 30% AP boost, and a DFG which allows any champs to be nuked in a second, but fine, let's nerf the Zhonyas's active because OP is bummed.

You made Sivir's spellshield a 1 second up time or something, why not do the same to this item?

Sivir gained it by just leveling up, and to grab Zhonyas players needs to spend about 10 minutes or less to farm up gold if he isn't fed, just to grab that hard-to-get Zhonyas, so this should compensate enough.

AgidyneNov 5, 20141 votes

I don't think the active should be removed

I think the active should be nerfed

It's a core for all mages even if not against Physical damage.

Sailor MintNov 5, 20141 votes

How do you nerf it? Increase the duration to 3.5 sec?

Lowering the duration would open up some very sweet abuse cases.

DrCyanideNov 5, 20141 votes

Riot has already gone over this.

Reducing the duration of the statis is a BUFF to Zhonya's, not a nerf. It lets people pop it really quick to avoid that second of critical damage then keep on moving. It removes the only downside of Zhonya's.

Lengthening the cooldown on Zhonya's is a NERF to your chances of getting out alive, but a buff to the problem that you describe (cooldowns available on exiting).

Zhonya's is in a sweet spot right now. A longer cooldown and it destroys your chances of getting out alive anyway. A shorter cooldown and it's easier to abuse.