Shadow Assassin Kayn is waaaay more fun.

Rewt·Jul 21, 2017·27 votes·3,438 views

But its shit FeelsBadMan.

47 Comments

NiyumiJul 21, 20174 votes

Shadow Assassin isn't bad at all. Darkin is just easier to pull off, and so people assume it's better.

AirKingNeoJul 21, 20172 votes

Blue Kayn is shit and you should never use it if you're trying to win.

NiyumiJul 21, 20171 votes

Mmm, well I have a 5:1 almost on Kayne, and I only played 5 games as red Kayn, and have a 70% winrate. Soo...

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20171 votes

Well only use Red Kayn. Until Blue Kayn gets substantial buffs, it's pretty much shit.

NiyumiJul 22, 20171 votes

They have different uses. Red Kayn is better at extended fights and chipping away at tanks (also has better objective control), while blue Kayn is much faster and more mobile, and excels at deleting squishies.

So, my rule is: 3+ squishies, blue Kayn. 3+ tanks/bruisers, red Kayn.

Thing is, blue Kayn is very squishy, and has only one escape, so you have to be smart about how you go in. A lot of people wanna play him like Zed and just jump on someone and delete them, which doesn't work for Kayn. You have to be smart with your E, come out from behind when they're not expecting it, and then slip back into the wall before their team turns around and gets you. You can also do some interesting dives with smite and your ult, and then just run away through a wall after killing the squishy you were after.

Red Kayn, on the other hand, can just go ham all he wants, since he thrives in longer fights. He's easier to pull off, and that's why people think he's stronger.

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20171 votes

He's the rule of every Kayn above diamond 3: Red Kayn always because Blue is completely worse.

Also Red Kayn deals way more damage than Blue, even when building semidefensive or even full damage, Red is better.

NiyumiJul 22, 20171 votes

Red only does more damage to high HP targets, bruisers and tanks. To a squishy, blue is goinna do a ton more damage.

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20171 votes

Yeah, a idiot squishy not building any armor whatsoever, maybe he deals more. That's it. Ninja tabi or GA and Red Form deals more.

Blade of JusticJul 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, a idiot squishy not building any armor whatsoever, maybe he deals more. That's it. Ninja tabi or GA and Red Form deals more.

Don't forget that SA Kayn's damage is partially magic as well. It's not easy for a squishy to build MR and Armor and still have enough burst to be useful late game.

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20171 votes

Except the bonus magic damage is based on POST MITIGATION damage, meaning it is reduced by both armor and magic resistance.

Like I said, after Tabi or GA, Darkin mode will deal more damage.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJul 22, 20171 votes

hum... u aren't diamond unless i mistake... And no, blue kayn deal more than Rhaast.

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20171 votes

Maybe you need to do the math in order to realize you're wrong, but I do not see how that is hard.

Blue Kayn's W has 10% more AD ratio while Rhaast has a knockup. Obviously the knockup is worth way more, especially in dueling power.

Kayn's blue Q is 270 + 130% bonus AD. Kayn's red Q is 100% AD +10% (+8% per 100 AD) max HP damage. Both build Cleaver and Ghostblade for 95 AD. Using level 14 as a baseline.

Kayn's Blue Q will deal 393.5 damage. Kayn's red Q (lv 14 Kayn), against a 1800 HP target, deals 188.9 + 324 or 512.9. Already, Red Kayn's Q deals way more damage, and Blue Kayn's passive doesn't make up for up.

If we assume the opponent is smart and knows Blue Kayn's passive damage boost is post mitigation then we can assume said squishy target has at least built Ninja Tabi or Guardian Angel for 30 armor. Just how much is Blue Kayn giving in damage with his passive empowered Q?

Using a level 14 Sivir (random marksmen), as a benchmark, who has 61.5 armor + 30 from GA/Tabi, for a total of 91.5 armor, which reduced by 18 lethality (16.4 flat pen) becomes 75.1 Armor, meaning they have about 43% physical damage reduction. Sivir at lv14 also has 36 magic resist, or 26% magic damage reduction.

393.5 x (1 - 0.43) = 224.3 physical damage post mitigation. Lv14 Blue Kayn gets 37% damage boost from his passive. 224.3 x 0.37 = 83 magic damage. 83 x (1 - 0.26) = 61.4 magic damage post mitigation. In total, Blue Kayn's Q with passive deals 285.7 damage after resistances.

Comparing Red Kayn against 43% physical damage reduction level 14 Sivir, who has 1507 health. Red Kayn deals 188.9 + 271.3 = 460.2 damage pre mitigation. 460.2 x (1 - 0.43) = 262.3 damage post mitigation.

Blue Kayn deals about 20 more damage with his passive available, but Red Kayn deals 40 more damage while Blue's passive is not available. However, you have to consider how budget. Blue Kayn's passive giving 20 damage more is not even close to the same value as the amount of true spellvamp Rhasst's passive gives. In addition, the survivability means more Qs are used which leads to higher total damage dealt across the game.

None of this uses Runes, which would lower Blue Kayn a chunk, keystones (where Fervor Red Kayn beats TLD blue kayn everyday), or ultimates (which Red Kayn drastically outshines for having a massive heal vs reseting a tiny damage boost).

How does me being diamond have anything to do with the opinion of Diamond players?

Sun Wu RyuumokuJul 22, 20171 votes

Blue Kayn's W has 10% more AD ratio while Rhaast has a knockup. Obviously the knockup is worth way more, especially in dueling power.

Its BS. u just take the knock up as an advantage. Without taking the shadow cast letting u moving during ur spell is very strong too and longer range.

If we assume the opponent is smart and knows Blue Kayn's passive damage boost is post mitigation then we can assume said squishy target has at least built Ninja Tabi or Guardian Angel for 30 armor. Just how much is Blue Kayn giving in damage with his passive empowered Q?

This reading isn't even smart to begin. u don't build Kayn as Rhaast. And u build Kayn with full lethality and maybe BC... so Kayn will hit most of his target same like they had no armor.

How does me being diamond have anything to do with the opinion of Diamond players?

little reminder, u saying this :

**He's the rule **of every Kayn above diamond 3: Red Kayn always because Blue is completely worse.

This rules is bs, cause u don't take Rhaast to do same job as Kayn.

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20171 votes

Rhasst does the same job of assassination but better because he has sustain.

nm1010Jul 21, 20174 votes

I've seen a Shadow Kayn get some insane e w q auto burst off, then I realize he is hitting the 0-6 Vayne I ganked 5 times...

VentiraJul 21, 20174 votes

I hate SHadow Assassin's voice lines. Darkin is much more fun in that department.

RewtJul 21, 201711 votes

I actually like SA voice lines. The Darkin one is all "KaYn wAsTeD ThIs fLeSh i wIlL NoT"

VentiraJul 21, 201714 votes

{quoted}

I actually like SA voice lines. The Darkin one is all "KaYn wAsTeD ThIs fLeSh i wIlL NoT"

Shadow Assassin doesn't call Varus Demon Pants. That alone makes it inferior.

AlistarMilkingJul 21, 20171 votes

Only when there's a Varus in the enemy team

morris1Jul 21, 20174 votes

Rhaast seems much more interesting when with Kayn. Then again, that also applies to Kayn.

Darius StradaJul 21, 20175 votes

{quoted}

I actually like SA voice lines. The Darkin one is all "KaYn wAsTeD ThIs fLeSh i wIlL NoT"

SA Kayn sounds like "I'm An EdGy LiTtLe BiTcH aNd I lIkE tO sUcK zEd'S dIcK"

BeatinWarDrumzJul 21, 20171 votes

Nah shadow assassin is so badass, Darkin is too corny

inplaneJul 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I hate SHadow Assassin's voice lines. Darkin is much more fun in that department.

Probably because Kayn becomes even more sentimental and emo when he becomes the true embodiment of edge.

JESUSSAYSNOJul 21, 20174 votes

Kayn in general is pretty shit rn. He needs buffs to be viable.

MizayaJul 21, 20172 votes

Shadow assassin is fun, but getting to heal half your health off your ult is fun too.

ninjaroxasJul 21, 20172 votes

That's child's play. Ult a fed cho and you'll heal to full easy

Pale PirateJul 21, 20172 votes

Then get one shot, rofl.

ChaosThiefJul 21, 20172 votes

That's one fed as hell cho if they one shot you.

And also one squishy as hell Rhaast. You should build health items as well to at least give you time enough to utilize your passive and ult.

ninjaroxasJul 21, 20171 votes

i mean in theory it can happen

Arsenic SulfurJul 21, 20171 votes

If Cho is literally fed, as in around 10 stacks, with Stoneplate he can one-shot Kayn. That ult can deal 1.4K true damage. So if Rhaast in this case is using a bruiser build CHo still has W and E.

hhaavviikkJul 21, 20172 votes

yeah shadow assassin can feel underwhelming, if you fail to assassinate osmeone with Q + W + AA + Ignite your left with an ult that deals like 300 damage, it's pathetic, not to mention it also gives them time to lifesteal

XBonkeyxDonorXJul 21, 20174 votes

You're not using the ult correctly then; the point of it is that it refreshes the passive SA form has against that target. So if you fail to Q W AA Ignite for the kill, just ult. Wait it out, then hit that Q when you're out, followed by AA. And if you're Jungling, hit that red Smite and they're BONED.

Acheron16Jul 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You're not using the ult correctly then; the point of it is that it refreshes the passive SA form has against that target. So if you fail to Q W AA Ignite for the kill, just ult. Wait it out, then hit that Q when you're out, followed by AA. And if you're Jungling, hit that red Smite and they're BONED.

If you have that ammount of time to do that, then they would be dead without your ultimate.

XBonkeyxDonorXJul 21, 20172 votes

Been playing him a decent bit lately, I have to say he's really not bad. Just have to play to strengths; there's a reason ranged gives you SA form. You're faster, can chase better, and dear god if something isn't tanky it's dead as a doornail, given you can W Q Auto it. Follow with R to reset passive, gg. Hell I pulled a Pentakill with SA form, with the 5th kill going straight through a wall and into turret range. I prefer Shadow Assassin to Darkin if I'm in the jungler role, but if I'm top lane it's almost always Darkin.

item 3147 item 3142 for Shadow Assassin = gg.

item 3812 item 3065 for Darkin = gg.

Grjjm ReaperJul 21, 20171 votes

agreed Rhaast Kayn is getting staler than MT Dew at a Pax Event

I am practicing Hecarim Jungle now...

XBonkeyxDonorXJul 21, 20171 votes

Hecarim jg for the win. He's amazing.

SujirenJul 21, 20171 votes

I don't think its shit at all. I used to play only red form, then I played a few blue form games and now red form feels really slow and clunky to me. Then again I play kayn mid mostly, hard to find excuse to go blue form in the jungle or toplane, which is where most people play him.

Kaisa is HotJul 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But its shit FeelsBadMan.

Shadow Assassins Ult ad ratio is getting buffed, 110% AD to 150% AD

morris1Jul 21, 20171 votes

The only thing that feels bad about Shadow Assassin is the ult damage, and that'll change after the buffs.

ÉthànJul 21, 20171 votes

I kayn do what I want.

Some Noob DudeJul 21, 20171 votes

Opinions, opinions. I actually have more fun with Rhaast. Being able to 1v3 when fed just healing up all the damage you take is hella fun.

Leaf on BushJul 21, 20171 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD-qL_ZplaY&feature=youtu.be

Karn BishopJul 22, 20171 votes

Yeah thats simply not realistic, 4 levels down and well over 10k gold difference, anyone can oneshot given those events.

Leaf on BushJul 22, 20171 votes

Well... I didn't just post this randomly. He said:

I actually have more fun with Rhaast. Being able to 1v3 when fed

FED

Karn BishopJul 22, 20171 votes

Shadow assassin will never be successful at mid to high range mmr simply because he has one thing that other assassins do not and cannot have to be an effective assassination champion and that is extended animation lockout windows which deny you movement control of your champion.

So in short Q is just a terrible design for an assassin as any support or other champion with skill shot CC only needs to wait until the very start of this abilities animation and they can get off a guaranteed hard stun every single time.

If they want to fix shadow assassin make it so that Q does the same thing as W other wise he will forever be a trash assassin unless his damage numbers are so ridiculous as to overcome that massive animation weakness.