Should Fiora ult get some other form of counterplay?

Dengeden··2 votes·571 views

Hug a wall, item 3140 and item 3222, due to her unparalleled chasing capability, that's pretty much all you can do about Fiora ult.

While I personally love how she turns teamfights on their head, the use of Fio ult is sometimes incredibly cheap (ult the lowest member). With how well she scales and how impactful it is, there should be more counterplay it.

For one, it'd be nice if Tenacity (or some other non-Ar/HP stat that I didn't think of) reduced its duration. Although that'd put her at an inherent disadvantage vs people with 18 points in the tank tree, Tenacity isn't a stat that's otherwise readily accessible against an AD fighter.

Another possibility is, well, could the 4 vitals that spawn not be as large as the ones her passive earns her? I get that a fencer will dance around you if they catch you off guard, it fits her theme. However I doubt they wantonly swing their blade at you when that happens. With this change, her ult would require more input from Fiora players and her victims wouldn't be completely hapless.

Thought and/or ideas?

And in came the downvotes, eh, it was just an errant thought

28 Comments

Abyssphere5 votes

Most ultimates don't have counterplay beyond "Dodge it" and some don't even have that. Fiora's ult has a huge amount of ways to play around it already compared to standard ults.

MasterSomething1 votes

Veigar ult comes to mind when you say there are undodgeable ults...

Dengeden1 votes

But it has great scaling and it's useful against everything she ults. It has the aforementioned counterplay but sometimes, that doesn't feel like enough.

MLDzXnRRR3 votes

49 % winrate op...

Dengeden1 votes

I'm not sure how hard her winrate is distorted by people hopping on the freelo train and realizing too late that her early-mid game 1v1 sucks. She's a very contested pick the higher the skill level and her kit is every bruiser main's dream.

MLDzXnRRR3 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure how hard her winrate is distorted by people hopping on the freelo train and realizing too late that her early-mid game 1v1 sucks. She's a very contested pick the higher the skill level and her kit is every bruiser main's dream.

Nautilus, Malphite and Darius are more popular than her in plat + and have higher winrate... So we first have to nerf them and then FIora, or what? She is good splitpusher, but dies to any devourer jungle that comes to defend the lane (Jax, Trynda, Trundle, Yi can stop her later too), also her teamfight is not good - the old Fiora could flash and R into the enemy team for insane AOE damage. The old FIora had something like 56 % winrate and her ult got nerfed - and she wasn't picked at all in competetive. This new Fiora takes more skill and deals less dmg than before.

Dengeden1 votes

Of course they have a better winrate, they're reliable frontlines. Fiora's more of an anti-frontline suited for more organized games. (Devourer junglers are even worse teamfighters than she is, btw)

Just because I want Fiora's ult to require more input on her behalf doesn't mean I want her gutted. She could get dmg buffs for all I care.

MasterSomething2 votes

You know, there is also the option of walking backwards and hitting her enough that fighting seems like a terrible option. It's called kiting.

Dengeden1 votes

due to her unparalleled chasing capability

I realize I should structure my sentences better but come on. Fiora has MS bosts and a reset dash, that's hard to get away from. And she'll ult a melee frontliner 9 out of 10 times, such champions can't exactly kite her.

MasterSomething1 votes

Really? If you are letting Fiora kill you while you are supposed to be kiting her, you are doing something wrong. She has good chasing ability, but all she has is one slow- that is melee range. You also have your stuns and slows. You also have other stuff, like items, boots, summoner spells, runes, etc.

Dengeden1 votes

Are you just ignoring everything I say? How is the melee champion she ulted going to kite her without blowing up? How is Fiora's mobility not a factor? The fact that she can riposte your CC? That she's at least as fast as you are, soley due to items?

MasterSomething2 votes

You are forgetting the melee champion has abilities as well. Chances are she probably used her Riposte to engage, but if she uses it on a CC she's using it right. So, alternatively, hit her with something heavy in damage and force her to waste it. Then stun her and walk away. Not hard.

Dengeden1 votes

In what world do you use Riposte to engage? It forces you to stand still.

Sides, Fiora will ult a target that CAN'T burst her down (e.g. someone who's low or the support).

MasterSomething1 votes

That's in a teamfight, where you are usually defended by other people like your tank. I was thinking we were talking about laning. Also, Riposte does inflict a hefty slow, so if you are feeling desperate you can do that. It's not the smartest, but it does work sometimes.

Dengeden1 votes

She's gonna ult the defending people like your tank or someone who's so vulnerable (low or with stuff on CD) that they're beyond defending.

Her laning phase blows, yep but she'll have a silly advantage once she completes like 3 items (and she's splitpushing). She'll instaclear with Hydra and be impossible to kill. QSS is your only option then and that falls off if you're a pure tank.

MasterSomething1 votes

You says she's gonna ult the support, then say she's gonna ult the tank? Make up your mind. Also, if someone is "vulnerable" they will back off or be dead already.

Her laning phase is quite fair, and you get plenty of opportunities to trade with her. Also, most champs have advantages due to their synergy with 3 items. Many people also splitpush faster than her. They also escape better than her. Not to mention there are many AD tops who can instaclear with Hydra. Remember, she's only impossible to kill if you let her hit your vitals. QSS isn't the only option. There is the option of playing smart.

Dengeden1 votes

She's gonna ult the support (vulnerable, just used their kit or just out of position trying to initiate) ... or the tank.

If she ults you 1v1, that's 3 vitals she'll hit almost guaranteed.

MasterSomething1 votes

If she ults the support and they've done their job, they should be surrounded by your team unless they are the tank. And if Fiora is ulting the tank, that's a lot less focus on the AD Carry. Think about that.

Also, if she ults you 1v1 and you let her hit 3 vitals without at least trying to slow her, you probably deserve the death.

Dengeden1 votes

But that's the thing, Fiora effectively removes one of your frontliners (tank supp or plain old tank) from the fight by ulting them. The adc won't have an easy time freehitting with them out of the picture and with Fiora's HP stacking and healing like there's no tommorow.

Slowing Fiora will be difficult with the MS boosts from her passive and Cleaver, with her mobility and the slow resist from both Swifties and the tank tree.

MasterSomething1 votes

You act like ulting the tank instantly removes the from the game. That's not how it works.

Dengeden1 votes

4 Vital procs and the liability of being an AoE heal for the enemy team? Very few scenarios where you don't abandon your posts.

MasterSomething1 votes

You forget the tank has his team- a burst mage, a DoT ADC, and a potential two other tanks as well.

The Voids Call1 votes

nope, because Zed ult doesn't need counter play either

Mistikal1 votes

QSS, Zhonyas, Mcails??? Are you serious?

The Voids Call1 votes

i'm not serious, i'm just saying that the same things which "counter" fiora ult also "counter" zed ult

Dengeden1 votes

Zed gets countered by armor stacking as well, not much of an option against Fio.

The Voids Call1 votes

refer to post /

Dengeden1 votes

You mean your response to King KSer? Armor stacking ... no work against Fiora

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