Buff Klepto, But Have It Permanently Reduce Your Damage?

Draehl··6 votes·719 views

EDIT: I'm tossing this idea out there as a way to curb Klepto's strength on the small subset of outlier champions that got Klepto nerfed in the first place. It's not like the old version was ridiculously strong for MOST champions.

I was thinking how much I miss the old Kleptomancy as a support main and how a handful of (mostly) toplaners destroyed the keystone for everyone else. With Bandit potentially getting removed also it presents the idea of making Klepto a little more niche pick for those of us who really like to be productive by poking into a lane we probably won't be able to kill. That said- why not buff the hell out of it but add a downside?

  • Bring back the increased autoattack range on the proc. Perhaps increase it even further for melee only to allow for more champs to viably be able to use it.
  • Increase the item drop rate to where it was pre-nerf.
  • Buff the gold pouch drop rate significantly.
  • Increase the cooldown from 2 to 5 seconds to make it less abusable by champs with many short cooldowns.
  • Slap it with a -30% to ALL damage done downside.

This would make it ideal for supports/utility/tank champions who want to accelerate getting items at the cost of damage and the other combat benefits provided by another keystone. Some late game damage champs might(?) be willing to eat the 30% debuff to get items faster (especially into certain matchups), but 30% is a rather large amount to offset.

I just hate to see a small portion of the champ pool ruin a keystone for a potentially much larger portion.

14 Comments

Marshbouy3 votes

That would, depending on the numbers, make it totally unusable for anyone who is reliant on dealing damage throughout the game.

Draehl1 votes

Which would still make it viable for a larger pool of champions than right now. There's enough raw damage keystones that one more utility pick would be amazing for builds that aren't damage focused.

Marshbouy1 votes

If by "viable for a large pool of champions" you mean exclusively tanks and enchanter supports...sure.

Rexxiee2 votes

Yeah, because supports need even more free gold to get their broken items even faster...

Said no one ever.

Fresh Untilted2 votes

Klepto still works. Getting ahead in gold is sometimes really powerful, especially combined with future's market. SOmetimes, we're talking about getting your first item a minute earlier out of a 20-30 minute game. That's 5-6% faster than usual. Having an entire minute extra of that powerspike can be the difference between winning and losing.

Lets face it, it was broken af before. It's balanced now. Klepto still can give you upwards of 200+ gold on your first back, which can make a huge difference combined with the 150-180 gold you can get from future's market.

Meep Man1 votes

This would just make it an insane Tank/Support keystone and make all other Tank/Support keystones worthless in comparison.

Draehl1 votes

Then balance it around the other tank/support keystones rather than Gangplank/Ezreal/Illaoi/etc. abuse dictating how strong it can be. That's the main point of the self damage debuff- maybe it would only need to be -15% and not buffed quite so hard. I'm more so tossing the idea out there as a way to curb Klepto's strength on the small subset of outliers that got it nerfed in the first place. It's not like the old version was ridiculously strong for MOST champions.

FWIW I only took the pre-nerf version around half the time- typically into lanes where an early kill wasn't likely- IE enemy Janna, Lulu, Alistar, etc. or my ADC specifically said they just want to farm. It's nice to have a viable option when more damage isn't doing much for ya.

Meep Man1 votes

Klepto is a nuclear keystone. It's current iteration is probably for the best where only those who abuse it make use of it. If it's too strong for a certain role, everyone in that role uses. If it's not strong, people just use something else. The only exceptions are those who can abuse it a ton through their kit mechanics, like Gangplank, Ezreal, and Illaoi. Klepto is a pretty poorly designed keystone to be honest as we actually DONT want it to be as you say because then it'll just be the must pick or never picked because that's how gold income boosts work. Either they are a must have or not at all. There's never a middle ground.

For example, way back in the day, the only person who bought Philosopher's Stone, the old only gold income item, were the people that absolutely abused the extra gold income to the max. Same applies today with Klepto, and that's how it should stay.

Draehl1 votes

{quoted}

Klepto is a nuclear keystone. It's current iteration is probably for the best where only those who abuse it make use of it. If it's too strong for a certain role, everyone in that role uses. If it's not strong, people just use something else. The only exceptions are those who can abuse it a ton through their kit mechanics, like Gangplank, Ezreal, and Illaoi. Klepto is a pretty poorly designed keystone to be honest as we actually DONT want it to be as you say because then it'll just be the must pick or never picked because that's how gold income boosts work.

Hey, I'd be down to see it replaced if that was also an option. There's a handful of champions that either don't have a viable keystone at all or only have those that support one playstyle vs. multiples that were available within the old rune system; it was certainly less elegant than the current system but really had better customization and granularity in choice. The new rune system really picks winners and losers since the triggering effects, etc. work in a very specific way that doesn't necessarily work for all champions. My personal example being tank Bard that really isn't viable anymore since the Resolve keystones all pale in comparison to just getting a bunch of flat armor/MR with the old system and don't hold up at all to all the damage coming from the new offensive runes.

50000000000000001 votes

I like the idea of Kleptomancy being a healthy keystone, but I don't think your proposed changes are a good way to achieve that.

Increased auto range is hardly necessary, as ranged champions can already fairly reliably proc Klepto. For melees, increased auto range means increased range for their empowered autos, like Leona Q and Alistar E in bot lane, and Nasus Q and Illaoi W in top lane. That increased range offers a lot of power.

Reduced damage of such a large scale would mean you would either give up all laning power just to get more items and be about as effective as you would be with a combat keystone. Unless you're trying to shift this keystone to tanks and enchanters only, I think damage debuff is not a good way to go.

Purgë1 votes

holy this thread just show how smart are support players so supports already got every supp items broken as fuk literly thersnt any supp item that isnt efficent , and have like 2 passives while also costing so cheap that some tanks top started building those items this change only help supports to be even more busted

Draehl1 votes

FWIW I build tank items moreso than "support" items and wouldn't mind seeing some nerfs to items. Just trying to keep up with the ridiculously silly level of damage right now. Somehow a mage/assassin/ADCs ability to near instantly delete someone off the screen trumps defensive player's ability to just... live.

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