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Lets talk about viktor top for a sec.

dontspinbutwin··4 votes·2,437 views

Ah. This man. Fuck.

So Viktor top became a thing, and I have no idea why. Probs bc some youtuber/streamer played him. However, Victor top is utterly painful to fight. Lets get into why.

Before we do, lets talk to the peeps who dont know what viktor top is. Essentially, viktor gets kleptomancy, and can either rush his hexcore or get iceborn gauntlet. The whole lane is based around the fact that victor will outdamage you, will kite you, and will win that lane. If you try to trade with him? He kites with his Q, and since theres a shield/ movement speed, he will most likely win that trade. Ok then, you say. Lets be passive and rush defense. The problem is, since viktor has kleptomancy, viktor encourages passive farming. He pokes you with his q, gets gold off that, and has complete lane control. Sure, your jungler could gank, but since viktor is building off/full tank, he most likely wont die, as he has a slow/movement speed buff in his kit, combined with armor and magic resist.

Now why is this a problem? Well. Like mentioned above, its a lose lose no matter how you fight this pick.

Play passive and farm? Fine, he'll poke you to death, and get kleptomancy gold while doing so, so even if you get every minion, you'll still be behind in gold compared to him.

Be aggressive and fight him? Go ahead, he's going to hard kite you, while outdamaging you.

Counterpick him? Go for it. However, when it gets in the late game, when your team needs a certain role as a front line, you won't be able to be that role for them.

"Oh well, I'll just farm under turret then. I'll be a bit behind, but at least he won't get too ahead."

Problem with that? His Q is on about a 3 second cooldown, is ranged, and grants him a shield. And he has kleptomancy, i remind once more. So regardless of playstyle, viktor will be dominant.

This is like tank ekko all over again. Fuck. This is worse than fighting quinn top, at least you can kill quinn by catching her off guard and bursting her down. You can't burst down a mofo tank who can slow/stun you, while speedboosting himself all over the lane.

Fuck.

18 Comments

gdogwow2 votes

So lemme get this straight... You can’t counterpick him because your team may need a certain role as a frontline. I can understand this point but my counterpoint would be viktor top isn’t a frontline. He may be tanky but for sure isn’t an engage champ or a frontline. So your team is losing on it and so is theirs correct? Which would make counterpicking him a viable option would it not?

dontspinbutwin2 votes

Viktor has an immense zone. Even if he's off tank, his damage is formidable, so rather than be a frontliner, in teamfights he just becomes secondary peel, or he becomes backup for the actual frontline. With his AOE slow/stun capabilities, with his iceborn slow/sheen proc, he forces the enemy to either tank the cc, try to burst viktor down (which isn't easy), or try to work around him. It should also be noted that even if you do win lane, or lets say hold even, the enemy jungler does exist, and Viktor will have stronger powerspikes (his hex item) and can be far safer than most toplaners can.

But lets ignore that for a bit, and say that you and the viktor become useless in the fight, making it a 4v4. Technically, you'd be right, and thats a somewhat even fight. However, that isn't the type of game riot wants to mold. Whenever something goes stale, riot usually spices things up with patches (for better and worse), and gets the game exciting all over again, with new things to try. While Viktor top can technically be thrown into the pile of "spicing the game up", it makes the game stale, and if a champion makes a 5v5 feel like a 4v4, then that really isn't something to use as a counterargument, but then points to a flaw in the game. Which then needs to be fixed.

Alzon1 votes

You beat Viktor the same way you beat a LeBlanc. Don’t lane against him. Go do other things on the map, even if it means you have 40 CS at 10 min - but it’s best to at least catch waves when you can, and 60 CS at 10 is respectable. So long as you’re not feeding him kills/Klepto procs.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

i do agree with roaming, except a small problem. Tank viktor is usually seen top, not mid, and TP is on a 400 second cooldown, so roaming bot to help really isnt an option. Also, while you roam, you get behind on exp and gold, which viktor can easily get without any lane opponent to worry about.

No matter what you do, your team will be behind in gold and exp, whether that be yourself, or other lanes, all while viktor sieges turrets, and while freefarming.

Dynikus1 votes

They're already nerfing viktor top.

dontspinbutwin2 votes

They're nerfing the damage a bit, yes. However, the most annoying bit is the windows of opportunity to punish. For many annoying toplaners, like quinn or teemo, there are windows to punish, causing both players to play carefully. However, for viktor, that window is completely covered by low cooldowns. His q is on a 3 second cooldown, meaning he can freely duel anyone who tries to duel him. Lets say you decide to go in when theres 1 second left before his q is up, then he's gonna just slow/stun you with his w. To sum up, top 3 reasons viktor top is no fun to fight.

  1. cd/movement speed of his q, paired with kleptomancy.
  2. Damage.
  3. Lack of windows to punish him harshly, and since he's a tank, you cant hard burst him.
Dynikus1 votes

Viktor is by no means a tank, and without damage, he's not going come out ahead in trades unless he builds AP.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

Viktor isnt a tank, but he CAN build like one. His main damage comes from his q/sheen proc. His w and e are just to help kite, to wait until his q comes up again. His ult is meant to pop those who are low/close to viktor. Yes, tank viktor's damage is weaker compared to ap viktor. However, thats to be expected. However, the main reason he comes out on top for trades is because he gets a shield from q, and activating q procs sheen. He just bullies you until he can burst you down in lane, and the fact that you cant_ trade with his is what frustrates me. You're right, he doesn't build ap, so why is it many champions lose trades with him? That's the biggest issue with him. If you could win lane by being aggressive, he wouldn't be a problem. The fact that it's a lose/lose situation no matter how you play is what makes him frustrating.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

Also, while he may not be building damage, he's building resistances, which lowers the damage you can deal to him. Since iceborn synergizes so well with him, it grants him fair damage, armor negates trading you try to do to him, and his shield helps him during trades. So overall, he builds very little damage, but his build is meant to poke/kite, while negating any trade potential you may have against him.

phúc off my lane1 votes

not to mention, klepto will give him potions which will give him AD, AP, and bunch of other stats and all that will compensate for his lack of offensive build. Sure, he doesn't build damage, but he can poke you constantly until a certain point where you will get low enough and forced to back while getting gold or potions out of it

Tegash1 votes

Q needs to be maxed to have 3 second cooldown. At the beginning of the game it's closer to 8 seconds.

Also, Viktor top became a thing because one person one a game with Tank Viktor Top in Worlds. After that, he was 100% banned for the rest of the season.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

Well thats nice to know about the origins. Its always gotta be some damn pro.

Early game is probably your best bet when trying to dominate a viktor, I do agree. However, the enemy viktor knows that as well, so they'll play extremely safe early levels, then get more aggressive, the lower the cd on his q gets, later to just going full lane dominance.

DragonShea1 votes

Viktor is OP. His speed and shield is the man problem with him, nerf those attributes and he will be manageable.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

No, AP viktor actually suffers a bit right now, as other champs can do his job but more efficiently/safer. Take A sol for example. While Viktor can burst down while having zoning control, A sol will suffer in many 1v1 matchups. However, in higher elo, many players play extremely safe, making A sol outperform viktor in many aspects, such as consistance damage, zoning, peel, engage, roams, etc. Zoe also does viktor's job, but better. She zones well, and has stupid amounts of burst. However, since top viktor isn't damage focused (but rather meant to put him ahead while putting the enemy laner behind), it brings a strange balance issue. AP viktor is fairly balanced atm, but tank viktor isn't. Rather than outright nerf him, I think they should have the movement speed/shield scale with AP, while increasing his Q's cd. That'll encourage many AP viktors to be more bold in their plays, while allowing some room for punishment for tank viktors.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

No, AP viktor actually suffers a bit right now, as other champs can do his job but more efficiently/safer. Take A sol for example. While Viktor can burst down while having zoning control, A sol will suffer in many 1v1 matchups. However, in higher elo, many players play extremely safe, making A sol outperform viktor in many aspects, such as consistance damage, zoning, peel, engage, roams, etc. Zoe also does viktor's job, but better. She zones well, and has stupid amounts of burst. However, since top viktor isn't damage focused (but rather meant to put him ahead while putting the enemy laner behind), it brings a strange balance issue. AP viktor is fairly balanced atm, but tank viktor isn't. Rather than outright nerf him, I think they should have the movement speed/shield scale with AP, while increasing his Q's cd. That'll encourage many AP viktors to be more bold in their plays, while allowing some room for punishment for tank viktors.

I have to respectfully disagree. Playing safe against a viktor is not an option due to his scaling and defensive tools, against someone like Teemo it's possible as a melee because he can get destroyed by ganks or mistakes, Viktor is both safe and deals too much poke damage from his Q and Sheen combo.

Tegash1 votes

Nobody respects the stun lmao.

Part of why Victor is so safe is that awful Enhanced W. It's a slow, that after 1.5 seconds becomes a stun. For an additional second. Having that in an area that is about 75% the size of Ekko's W is crazy.

If you try to dive Viktor with your jungler, that Viktor is getting a double.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

Nobody respects the stun lmao.

Part of why Victor is so safe is that awful Enhanced W. It's a slow, that after 1.5 seconds becomes a stun. For an additional second. Having that in an area that is about 75% the size of Ekko's W is crazy.

If you try to dive Viktor with your jungler, that Viktor is getting a double.

True, I get that he is immobile but if he is so tough after you get past his W then he too much. My opinion of Viktor is that he is a battle mage gone horribly right. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/GoneHorriblyRight

dontspinbutwin1 votes

Playing safe comes in many forms. For some players, only farming and not go for poke is considered safe. However, many pros will give up cs to not take poke, as it pays off in the long run. However, for AP viktor, this is acceptable, as it forces him to be in bad spots if he plays aggressively, or forces him to be passive with mediocre reward. This isn't the case with tank viktor, as all negatives that AP viktor might recieve from playing aggressively are null with tank viktor. His burst is high for Ap viktor, but he can be bursted down due to lack of defense items. However, for tank viktor, he trades his burst for unforgiving poke and survivability, which is a combo that riot usually frowns upon, which is why champs who see this face nerfs, like yasuo did with how long he can hold his tornado, or to azir, who had alot of poke potential while being super safe.

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