'Vayne is 50-52% winrate at being most picked champ therefore OP'

fractalfantasies·8/30/2015, 6:46:49 PM·3 votes·1,470 views

Can someone please explain this logic.

How does the fact she has a fairly balanced winrate with a huge amount of samples being available lead to her being OP, it's not as if taking more samples of something drives the observed value to a value below the true mean.

EDIT: Instead of downvoting give me an explanation, because as a lowly ignorant mathematics graduate, I am looking to learn from the statistical prodigies on this website.

39 Comments

The Sword Saint8/30/2015, 7:05:49 PM3 votes

It's just a hipster effect. People get bored or annoyed of dealing with the same champions in every game even if they have an average winrate, especailly if playing against those champs are frustrating.

Imagine a meta where teemo was 52% winrate and picked every game top lane, and the rest of the time the top lane champs were either someone annoying who beats teemo or a third annoying guy who beats the annoying guy who beats teemo. It would not only be stale and a pain in the ass because all three are frustrating, but anyone who tried a fourth option and got destroyed but the super annoying toplane trinity would be super upset with the state of the game and demand nerfs even if the 'top picks' only had an average winrate.

Sometimes the complaints are less about 'x is op', and more about 'I just don't want to see x in my games anymore for a while'.

Unho1y Intent8/30/2015, 7:13:03 PM2 votes

Because everyone got used to using facerolling HP stacking tanks, and people responded by playing Vayne. They can't smash their face on the keyboard with Shyvana anymore and 1v5 the enemy team.

Nimba8/30/2015, 6:56:17 PM2 votes

Because she has a high pickrate so I guess it should be lower idk..I got downvoted to hell for asking why a 52% winrate needs to be toned down. I feel like a popular champ with a 50% winrate is pretty okay, especially since most people who play Vayne typically already have a grasp on how to adc.

I don't think people really believe Vayne is op, good Vayne players are just really obnoxious if you're not playing an ADC who can beat her and that list is pretty small in the current meta.

Mr Broken Wings8/30/2015, 7:22:01 PM2 votes

This a silver board with a gigantic hivemind. You dont have to take them serious when they make threads like that. Simple as that. Everytime a champ gets popular for whatever reason they bitch about it and then they start listing the strenghts of a champion and call it op. Funny enough that these strenghts suddendly get a problem when a champion is picked more, before that everybody would have argued that vayne is completly fine on this boards. She always had selfpeel, strong 1 v 1 potential and her true damage was always there, its just suddendly a problem because they search for an excuse to call her broken op freeelo because she is picked a lot. She is fotm because of the meta and still isnt hyper overbearing. Everybody who acts in a different way here is either fishing for upvotes from the gigantic retard hivemind group or is part of it. She will probably get a really small nerf and suddendly this gigantic group of people will go back to hating zed/lee/riven even though she will still be the same champion, dont worry. People on this board are so predictable its funny to watch.

Arcade Andrew8/30/2015, 7:09:16 PM2 votes

Upvoted to try and get rid of the mass mob of "BUT MUH OP AND KNOWLEDGE OF BALANCE" downvoters

simple answer: shes not OP shes perfectly balanced but if you havent learned a damn thing from these boards: they will bitch about anything and downvote if you dont agree

I used to think riot should be listening to the people in these boards but then I started to realize its about the same 50-100 people on the G&B boards that ever post anything or comment and I realized half of then are stupider than a 5 year old which is why I no longer really browse these boards anymore I just comment on interesting ones I see pop up in "boards home" and post actual gameplay and balance issues when I find them (such as ARAM only accounts that only unlock a specific few champions to always get them in aram, with the simple fix of just make it so all champions are unlocked for everyone in aram) but I either get ignored and the "muh op" posts keep getting bumped or i get downvoted into oblivion by retards

Athenes Lulu8/30/2015, 7:48:08 PM1 votes

You should try seeing Vaynes up higher, where people fuck up less.

She has no real counters because of her late game and how well she scales ONCE she gets peels... something that higher elos CAN do. Her early game is actually painful, and can duel once she reaches level 6.

This alone already tells us that she will do pretty darn well in higher elo.

But if you're talking about anything lower than mid-gold, then that's where the "hipster effect" rolls in. People goes along with the "pick to win" mentality (like usual), and proceed to complain about it.

Even so, I'm sick and tired of dealing with Vaynes. At least for Jinx, you can have an assassin on your team (cough Rengo) and she goes bye-bye. Vayne is just a lot harder to kill.

insaiyanbacca8/30/2015, 6:58:54 PM1 votes

what most people use as an explanation for this is it just means that people are picking up vayne easily and winning a lot

Shroom Junkie8/30/2015, 7:15:04 PM1 votes

Okay, let me explain this to you, nice and simple little boy:

No way to defend against her past level 3 + a dash every 2-8~ seconds(based on when she AA's, so quite possibly every 2 seconds, that also upgrades her next AA) + a stealth that can also stop AA's mid-animation as well as confuse the human mind by making them think she went one way then having them put their cursor there only to find she's completely the opposite direction = Broken OP. Don't even need to say anything else. She can literally dual almost any champion in the game. I've seen her win 1v1's with a late-game Yi and I'm sure many people can say the same.

"But her range is low" http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Range She's tied with 25 other champ's range, and is above 31 other champs and is only below 10 champs- one of which is tied with her at level one, and the other is below her until using an ability(Jinx's Switcheroo turning it into the rocket, otherwise her range is less).

"But she has a bad early game" Yeah, up until she gets her BotRK, and sometimes even then against really bad early game champs. And before she gets her BotRK, and heck, even after, she has a super safe laning phase with a dash most commonly attained at level 1, and a knockback and could-be stun at level 3, maybe 2 if she gets it(but usually Vayne players don't until level 3).

"But her main source of damage is every 3 attacks" ... I haven't heard this many times, but when I do, I just cry. Like. No. NO. NOOOOO.

SaltyToplaneGoat8/30/2015, 6:50:08 PM1 votes

Strong champions usually have a LOW pickrate and a high winrate.

Borken champions on the other hand...

Also, she should be reworked as she is outdated and does not live up to her Batman-theme (no seriously, she's literally Valoran batman crossed with Blade. There is so much awesome shit you can do, but instead you get this broken ass kit that's not even interesting to play against)