Stop mindlessly spamming gragas jungle in ranked

fractalfantasies·May 23, 2015·28 votes·2,698 views

He was used to great effect in the lcs, but this does not mean you can just lock him in and expect freelo, unless you have watched videos explaining what makes him so deadly.

56 Comments

Praetor DonMay 23, 201527 votes

{quoted}

just lock him in and expect freelo,

Swain

PæanMay 23, 20158 votes

I lock in Gragas because before the cinderhulk garbage I was playing full AP jungle gragas and 100-0 anyone that came across me. Lichbane with that W will half hp or more anyone :D Now im a "troll" if I'm not going full tank :C

Also, dont rush just straight health after cinderhulk. Had an enemy gragas rush Righteous glory, then a champ belt, then warmogs. He still had under 70 armor and MR by mid game and still got blown up but my backstabs.

BiffoloMay 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I lock in Gragas because before the cinderhulk garbage I was playing full AP jungle gragas and 100-0 anyone that came across me. Lichbane with that W will half hp or more anyone :D Now im a "troll" if I'm not going full tank :C

Also, dont rush just straight health after cinderhulk. Had an enemy gragas rush Righteous glory, then a champ belt, then warmogs. He still had under 70 armor and MR by mid game and still got blown up but my backstabs.

Well, you are a troll because times have changed. Cinderhulk gragas>magus gragas. If you aren't playing to maximum effectiveness....

PæanMay 23, 20151 votes

So, I can sit in 5 people for 5 seconds while my team does nothing, or I can go in and insta kill one or more people :O

BiffoloMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So, I can sit in 5 people for 5 seconds while my team does nothing, or I can go in and insta kill one or more people :O

Or you can abuse your insane %health damage to stick to their carry and murder the fuck out of them over time, or use his ult it's optimal way and try and peel.

PæanMay 24, 20151 votes

True, very true. The thing is, the whole "full tank" hasnt been here very long, at least not for gragas. When I play full tank jungle graggy I do use everything as peeling instead of damage, but I used to use it as the HUGE nuke that it was back when I was playing full AP. The way I see his ulti now is an AOE insec to their backline lol. If done right you can smack their Midlaner AND ADC into the frontlines for an easy cleanup.

I'm still just wishing to relive grag's past of hyper burst mage :C

IcyPepperMay 23, 201516 votes

It's not a troll to play off meta, dude. -_-

This is why we can't have nice things. Don't be a sheep.

BiffoloMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's not a troll to play off meta, dude. -_-

This is why we can't have nice things. Don't be a sheep.

It's sub optimal, and if you are in ranked, you should be playing everything to it's maximum effectiveness. It's not being a sheep, it's logical thinking -.-

IcyPepperMay 24, 20154 votes

AP Gragas has its place as well as cinderGragas.

And I have to disagree. Meta does not automatically mean most effective (after all, pros are on a whole new level and they influence the meta, and some people just have different playstyles).

Not to mention some people have different playstyles and champions they're comfortable with. There is a line between trolling and off meta, and you need to know the difference. AP Riven is trolling, AP Gragas is off meta.

And if you bully people over this, and try to force your way of thinking (which is an opinion, since metagaming is not always the best way to go) onto them, you cross the line and become a troll yourself. So think about this, and stop throwing words around without even considering the possibility that you are harboring an opinion, not an objective fact.

ChessburgerMay 24, 20152 votes

True, AP Gragas playstyle feels like playing a different champion compared to tank Gragas and I really like it, that's why I spent 3 months perfecting it and am unwilling to change to tank because I have a lot bigger impact on AP.

BiffoloMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

AP Gragas has its place as well as cinderGragas.

And I have to disagree. Meta does not automatically mean most effective (after all, pros are on a whole new level and they influence the meta, and some people just have different playstyles).

Not to mention some people have different playstyles and champions they're comfortable with. There is a line between trolling and off meta, and you need to know the difference. AP Riven is trolling, AP Gragas is off meta.

And if you bully people over this, and try to force your way of thinking (which is an opinion, since metagaming is not always the best way to go) onto them, you cross the line and become a troll yourself. So think about this, and stop throwing words around without even considering the possibility that you are harboring an opinion, not an objective fact.

Except that tank gragas does have the highest win percentage build in soloq. http://champion.gg/champion/Gragas It's not opinion, it's statistical fact that you will win more with tank gragas than mage gragas. If you aren't good at it, then get good for the wins. Fun comes second to winning in ranked, simple as that.

IcyPepperMay 24, 20151 votes

So? Some people are just better with AP Gragas than cinderGragas. If that's the case, just let 'em play what they're good at.

If statistics were the only thing that mattered, would we start reporting people for playing jungle Olaf in ranked just because he isn't top tier?

Does that mean people can't play Elise?

Are we forced to only play what has the better stats?

No.

Even in ranked, we're allowed to play what we're good at while trying to win. Statistics doesn't account for every individual factor, including the player. If someone is good at AP Gragas but sucks at tank Gragas, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. If you want to rage at them or whine about it, be my guest, but playing off meta (within reason, remember my AP Riven and AP Gragas comparison!) is never against the rules, but being an ass over it is.

BiffoloMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So? Some people are just better with AP Gragas than cinderGragas. If that's the case, just let 'em play what they're good at.

If statistics were the only thing that mattered, would we start reporting people for playing jungle Olaf in ranked just because he isn't top tier?

Does that mean people can't play Elise?

Are we forced to only play what has the better stats?

No.

Even in ranked, we're allowed to play what we're good at while trying to win. Statistics doesn't account for every individual factor, including the player. If someone is good at AP Gragas but sucks at tank Gragas, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. If you want to rage at them or whine about it, be my guest, but playing off meta (within reason, remember my AP Riven and AP Gragas comparison!) is never against the rules, but being an ass over it is.

I know I certainly are not happy when someone picks elise, generally provoking a dodge from me or someone else. They should practice tank gragas to get good at it, then play it in ranked. Also, I won't outright say anything to them, but know that if they break one rule in the slightest bit, I will report them for that. Say one negative thing? Verbal abuse. Same thing for other actions.

IcyPepperMay 25, 20151 votes

Also, I won't outright say anything to them, but know that if they break one rule in the slightest bit, I will report them for that. Say one negative thing? Verbal abuse. Same thing for other actions.

Would you do the same thing for people playing meta?

BiffoloMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Would you do the same thing for people playing meta?

Nope. I value people tryharding to their greatest extent that much.

IcyPepperMay 25, 20151 votes

Comes off as petty and abusing the report system (one negative thing does not equal verbal abuse).

BiffoloMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Comes off as petty and abusing the report system (one negative thing does not equal verbal abuse).

If it's used in an aggressive tone it actually is. What if it hurts my fragile little feelings on the internet? That could cause a bad game experience for me for the rest of the day. Also, I do mix it up and throw negative attitudes when I feel it's not enough to warrant verbal abuse. You call it petty, I call it promoting a certain playstyle in the only way I can.

IcyPepperMay 25, 20151 votes

I understand if it really is negative, then yeah sure report them. Off meta doesn't automatically equal saint, don't get me wrong.

But abusing the report system isn't promoting a certain playstyle, it's enforcing it. And that's not okay.

You can promote better playstyles by suggesting builds to players, especially if they're struggling, and by leading by example. There's more options than just reporting people for the slightest offense (stuff you wouldn't report players playing meta for, as you admitted. That does make it seem you're abusing it).

Please don't be that guy. Even when people play off meta, they're still trying to win.

BiffoloMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I understand if it really is negative, then yeah sure report them. Off meta doesn't automatically equal saint, don't get me wrong.

But abusing the report system isn't promoting a certain playstyle, it's enforcing it. And that's not okay.

You can promote better playstyles by suggesting builds to players, especially if they're struggling, and by leading by example. There's more options than just reporting people for the slightest offense (stuff you wouldn't report players playing meta for, as you admitted. That does make it seem you're abusing it).

Please don't be that guy. Even when people play off meta, they're still trying to win.

But i'm fine with enforcing a certain playstyle. I am one of the people who is grateful when they kill off builds like ap trist.

AbyssphereMay 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It's sub optimal, and if you are in ranked, you should be playing everything to it's maximum effectiveness. It's not being a sheep, it's logical thinking -.-

Have you considered he might be more skilled with AP Gragas than tank Gragas and going "meta" might actually make him worse?

BiffoloMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Have you considered he might be more skilled with AP Gragas than tank Gragas and going "meta" might actually make him worse?

Yes, and I also considered that they should adapt to said meta, and get good at tank gragas. IMO champion pools shouldn't just be a set in stone thing, sure having a comfort pick or two is nice, but being able and willing to pick up, learn and then drop champions when they become weaker is a legitimate tactic to climbing soloq, and will make you more versatile on more champs. I think it comes partially from the fact that people put too much value into what they WANT to play, over what is ideal to play, causing people to develop emotional attachments to champs. For example, sona is my favorite champion in league, over half my games ever have been on her I can safely say. Won't pick her in soloq though, where winning is what matters. Maybe in troll around ranked 5s, but that's it.

GodarenMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's sub optimal, and if you are in ranked, you should be playing everything to it's maximum effectiveness. It's not being a sheep, it's logical thinking -.-

Except sometimes off meta is better, no one played sejuani last season at all doesn't mean she was bad....

BiffoloMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except sometimes off meta is better, no one played sejuani last season at all doesn't mean she was bad....

But there were much BETTER picks, which you should have been playing.

GodarenMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But there were much BETTER picks, which you should have been playing.

Not really the best junglers were khaz and lee sin but because of their high skill cap I belive both had negative win rates. I'd rather have a teamate on a low skill amumu or sej then a lee sin even if lee sin is "more viable"

BiffoloMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not really the best junglers were khaz and lee sin but because of their high skill cap I belive both had negative win rates. I'd rather have a teamate on a low skill amumu or sej then a lee sin even if lee sin is "more viable"

Then practice them, get good with them and go play them. Not hard.

GodarenMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then practice them, get good with them and go play them. Not hard.

But is it really worth the time to get good with lee sin when you can play amumu hit a skill shot get a 4 man ult and win? Sure lee and khaz could have bigger impact on more lanes but that doesn't matter when amumu can hit a great ult and cancel that work out.

BiffoloMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But is it really worth the time to get good with lee sin when you can play amumu hit a skill shot get a 4 man ult and win? Sure lee and khaz could have bigger impact on more lanes but that doesn't matter when amumu can hit a great ult and cancel that work out.

Except in this example, you should have done enough early game, that the game dosen't get to the point where this is relevant. AMmumu has always been a late game scaling monster. Lee and kha have always fallen off. If you were good enough with said champs, and you played perfectly every game (which is impossible I understand) then the games wouldn't go late enough for it to matter.

GodarenMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except in this example, you should have done enough early game, that the game dosen't get to the point where this is relevant. AMmumu has always been a late game scaling monster. Lee and kha have always fallen off. If you were good enough with said champs, and you played perfectly every game (which is impossible I understand) then the games wouldn't go late enough for it to matter.

I was arguing just for the sake of arguing but some games your lanes shove and you have no where to gank which isn't really your fault.

BiffoloMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I was arguing just for the sake of arguing but some games your lanes shove and you have no where to gank which isn't really your fault.

And you can't win every game, so that happens. What you do in that case is 1. try and countergank the fuck out of their jungler and 2. coordinate dives with your carries to take turrets and get objectives and snowball.

TTUPhoenixMay 23, 20154 votes

A while back I had someone lock in Sej in ranked and tell me it was freelo. As someone who plays a lot of Sej, no, she's not. We didn't win.

Hello I am BirdMay 24, 20153 votes

nuh, sejuini es mah frelow me wun 21/69 gmes wit hr, she soo gud

Spacesuit SpiffMay 23, 20152 votes

Nunu

Like, I enjoy the free wins, but as a former Nunu main it's just painful to see them not even make an attempt to counterjungle me or steal dragons.

JefftiffyMay 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Like, I enjoy the free wins, but as a former Nunu main it's just painful to see them not even make an attempt to counterjungle me or steal dragons.

Or you know you can be like the idiot Nunu's who are going hmm. Enemy jungler is ganking every lane non-stop let me just keep taking his camps. That ought to stop him. One game i was 1/1/7 jungle Naut while a Nunu is just sitting there taking my camps and is 0/2/0 with like 90 CS at like 20 minutes because I just said fuck it. It's not worth dealing with him, you take my camps, I take your champs.

Spacesuit SpiffMay 23, 20151 votes

Yeah, I've had games exactly like that. I could go on and on about how Nunus playstyle doesn't do enough to win games, but at the end of the day that's his playstyle and when people try to play him like a Warwick or a Lee, you just gotta wonder why they didn't pick a jungler that actually scales well/ganks for shit.

StealWolverineMay 23, 20151 votes

If your laners weren't crap they'd ward and stop pushing. Then all 3 of the enemy team ends up further back.

terkmcMay 23, 20152 votes

"I take your champ" This sounds like Skarner

YfrappefortMay 24, 20152 votes

But dude!!! Don't u know? If a champion with over 80% ban rate is somehow not banned, I have to insta lock him/her even if I have no clue how to play said champ, cause he's OP and freelo am I rite?

fractalfantasiesMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But dude!!! Don't u know? If a champion with over 80% ban rate is somehow not banned, I have to insta lock him/her even if I have no clue how to play said champ, cause he's OP and freelo am I rite?

In two games I played recently there was a LeBlanc on the other team, since both captains failed to ban her.

In both games she totally cocked up and they lost, absolutely hilar

TransgressorMay 24, 20152 votes

Holly molly I've god to say the circlejerk in the comments is astonishing.

aaronconlinMay 23, 20151 votes

"B-but there's Sejuani nerfs coming I need a new champion to play!"

GodarenMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"B-but there's nerfs coming I need a new champion to play!"

I've seen sej once in like a month in ranked, she was on the other team along with annie jinx and leona, needless to say I dodged that one instantly. First picks need to learn to ban

aaronconlinMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I've seen sej once in like a month in ranked, she was on the other team along with annie jinx and leona, needless to say I dodged that one instantly. First picks need to learn to ban

Same, she's been banned in pretty much every game I've played

GodarenMay 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Same, she's been banned in pretty much every game I've played

And for good reason god she is easy to win with. Least her ult isn't as opressive as it used to be

ayNigerianPrinceMay 23, 20151 votes

Can I continue spamming Sion?

Tis a nice dayMay 23, 20151 votes

I still do. ._.

XonraMay 23, 20151 votes

Wouldn't mind it even if people understood why he was used or how to build him.

Had a terrible Gragas jungle yesterday who build cinderhulk, then just rushed a Deathcap with t1 boots, then went all ap. It was painful and bad.

AbsoluteSadmanMay 23, 20151 votes

I was playing jungle graggy the very patch cinderhulk came out, i understand what his power is thank you

BALDG1VEN BOOMERMay 24, 20151 votes

Jumping through walls make's him deadly.

True story some guy who played Gragas actually thought that.

TheSaltyScourgeMay 25, 20151 votes

Tank Jungle Gragas is the most brainless easy shit why would I not pick him.

ErockandrollMay 25, 20151 votes

Gragas is high skill, He has a good CC move ability that works with flash, and his ultimate provides a ton of utility and disengage, not just ganking power. Though if the enemy flashes his ult, it may push him to safety instead of towards your laners. The shout casters called him the "lee sin of the tank meta"

The main difference between AP Gragas and Tank Gragas is carring and team fighting. though I'd argue that both builds have the ability to make plays. His AP build (I usually build him bruiser and not glass cannon) can hurt enemy squishies. some times even bursting them down. He will also clear camps faster. Though it probably won't work as well against Tankier targets, making him fall off later in the game. (partial speculation) His tank build relies on his Slow and ult to separate carries from their team mates and basically disrupt the enemy while not dying in the process. because Cinderhulk is a late scaling item. His tank build will fair better than his AP build later in the game. (his Passive also scales with the health stacking.)