Lets talk Ashe

masterdragon481··4 votes·732 views

Hi everybody! I just wanted to start a discussion on the Ashe changes that occurred with all the rest of the preseason changes. She didn't get the biggest of changes and hasn't really been discussed anywhere yet, but shes by far my most consistent adc and I wanted to share my thoughts with the changes.

I think that this patch has significantly weakened ashe all around. The changes to her Q are, all in all, very bad for the vast majority of the game. What do I mean?

Well, first of all, losing the ability to activate her Q whenever she wants to means she has lost attack speed that she really needed access to to trade in lane (regardless of whether she was getting the 5 stack ad buff). Now, in order to gain access to that attack speed buff, she must afk push the lane because she must have 5 stacks. This creates a whole other group of problems (mainly weakness to ganks). Opponents can easily monitor Ashe's stacks and back out before she gets a chance to activate it. Without the threat of that attack speed buff to trade with opponents, Ashe is significantly weaker; she has a W that gets blocked by minions, no damage on her E, and at this point, no Q.

Second, a LOT of the features of her Q were balanced around last patch. Stack duration is far too short (well placed cc can cause Ashe to lose her stacks) to justify losing all her stacks in one go since she has to auto attack 5 times just to get the ability to use her Q. Well, in the early to mid game, 5 auto attacks is actually a decent amount of time and in a lot of cases the outcome of the fight will have already been decided before Ashe gets to use this ability. In addition, it is much harder to orb walk with an active Q. This was masked previously by the fact that it was increasing the power of her slow, but now; if by some miracle there is still a target in range of my auto attacks when I finally get to activate my Q, chances are I will get on attack off on them before they walk out because it no longer increases the slow. Instead, I need to rely on critical strike chance which means early game (and even some of mid game) is a crap shoot (or no chance at all) that I will successfully keep a target in range.

I would really like to see some changes to her stack system implemented. For example, increase the duration of the stacks, and/ or have them fall off two at a time. This will still punish her for letting stacks fall, but doesn't make her completely useless in lane. I would also like the attack frame rate to be increased when she activates her Q.

TL:DR Ashe is very weak with this new patch and cannot compete in the early to mid game at all. She needs buffs to cover the weaknesses that came about in her kit when certain aspects were changed.

12 Comments

EcchiOtakuTM3 votes

So what you're telling me, you want to talk about "Dat Ashe "

Bonipherus2 votes

I read that they were looking into her q stacks a bit further because they feel a bit off. I'd imagine they will have some tweaks in the next patch or two for her.

masterdragon4812 votes

OOH do you have a link or anything about that? I would be very interested in reading more about that. Because I hope so. She is super weak right now.

lofi n chillhop1 votes

nah she isn't super weak right now, just regular weak :P she's still got really good range, second best of adc's I believe. she's a very safe laner, and has the best buff in q of anyone that is when it IS available. lol

masterdragon4812 votes

Except that realistically its never available to her at the moment. So it basically doesn't exist.

Bonipherus2 votes

It's from here: http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/N7VZrAws-smaller-522-marksmen-changes-pbe-feedback-thread

the thread text is as follows:

After looking and playing with the new changes of the marksmen listed here, I'd have to say the direction of the changes all seem good, and most seem to employ these directions effectively.

however, the ashe changes to the ranger' focus seem a bit weird, in that it seems unduly difficult to set up ranger's focus now. I'd either increase the AS steroid, make it only 4 stacks, or give it some other bonus on activation.

Riot Repertior responded:

Yeah, I'm with you that Ranger's Focus seems like it may be too hard to use now. If that's the case, I'd like to tune it up after, but one thing I really don't want to do is start out with this 0cd spell being too strong.

That said, your feedback on Ashe has been largely consistent with what I've gotten from others on her as well.

WalkingInACircle2 votes

Her w no longer gives her a stack on her q, which has made stacking it harder. Also, the itemization changes didn't really favor her... Ashe has no use for Statick Shivv because she cannot crit on her first attack, and she has no use for rapid fire cannon because she already has her w. She does not use the CDR on essence reaver either. So I think she can put together a decent build item 3072 item 3046 item 3031 item 3085 but she's not getting to use the best of the new adc items.

masterdragon4812 votes

I actually disagree with her not benefiting from the item changes.

First, Ashe can use static shiv because she can crit on first auto attack now. Her bonus damage isn't considered critical damage anymore; its just bonus damage that scales off crit change/damage. Instead, her crits double her passive slow. But it would allow shiv to crit.

Second, I think Essence Reaver is actually a great pickup on her. W uses a lot of mana and its nice to not run OOM. In addition, the cdr results in a very low cool down ultimate, which is still one of the strongest initiations/disengages in the game.

She needs some changes to accomodate the changes on her Q though, the old mechanics don't work well at all and leave her very underpowered.

lofi n chillhop1 votes

I also really like rapidfire cannon on her. the extra range lets her w->auto in situations she can't without it, aditionally it lets me chase down enemies better where I slow them with w and reapply slow with RFC where I otherwise wouldn't be able to keep the slow applied due to W cooldown. it also gives me extra poke opportunities in sieges, and the best thing is the 8% move speed :)

masterdragon4811 votes

I do like it on her too, more than shiv tbh. Since she is so immobile, the extra range really helps.

lofi n chillhop1 votes
  • q is indeed weaker in lane than before
  • q is now very much stronger in a battle that lasts longer than 15 seconds
  • q is very much stronger now in a siege scenario
  • q has been re-enabled to melt towers and inhibitors
  • q now is very much stronger in soloing dragon or taking down baron, as you will easily use it twice in those scenarios when you didn't before.
  • q can be stronger now when clearing a side wave mid to late game if it's larger than 20 minions.

also, I've always found it a lot easier to orb walk an active q than her normal attacks. it's animation is really long, but most of it can be canceled without cancelling the attack. I actually often cancel her normal attacks because there's such a dramatic difference between the two lol xD

overall, I'm very pleased with the q changes. however, considering how much some of the other adc's changed for the positive, I am finding laning with her more difficult now, and I think that if the stack loss had more forgiveness and w was allowed to give and hold stacks, she'd be in a good balanced and fair state.

also, I'm pretty sure she can't ever crit shiv passive anymore :( although I haven't actually tested that lol xD

masterdragon4811 votes
  • Its definitely weaker in lane on a carry that isnt really strong in lane to begin with; does she need to be weaker?

  • If you want to use Q twice in a team fight, you have to land 5 autos, activate it once, then when it wears off , land another 5 autos to stack it again. Figure you are sitting at about 1.7 attacks per second after everything has been accounted for, and thats roughly 4 seconds of combat before you get to activate it once, 4 seconds while its active, and another 4 seconds to stack it again.

4 seconds is a LONG time in a teamfight and most fights will be decided before this point; making the ability either overkill or non existent. So its not much stronger in a battle that lasts longer than 15 seconds, in fact, the time it takes to get off a second Q is about 12 seconds, or 3 seconds better than it was before!

  • Because stacks fall off so fast, backing off between minion waves means you have to stack it again (5 consecutive autos is really hard to get in a siege situation). So her Q is actually HORRIBLE in a siege situation.

  • It can melt towers, but to stack it you need to auto 5 times and you can't stack it on towers, which means you need the enemy minion wave to be close enough to build the stacks and then activate it OR take the time to auto 5 minions while your wave dies to tower which, depending on that point of the game you are in, might not be worth it. The old Q i could get the attack speed whenever I wanted, which, depending on the situation is better. So I won't strictly say that this new Q is better at taking towers than the other Q was.

  • Agreed on the epic monster takes. It is noticable here, but this is a VERY minor buff when you consider all the negatives ive mentioned both here and in OP.

  • Q is no better when clearing a side wave, its distinctly worse. Its all single target anyway, and minions don't really stand up to marksmen auto attacks very well anyway; the extra damage is minimal. Besides, volley is far superior at clearing waves than Q ever would be. I would actually argue that Q is worse now, because I can't get the extra attack speed whenever I want.

I have found that people are walking away from me more often when I activate Q now as opposed to last patch. This is because of the lack of the increased slow. In any case, smoothing out the attacks in both forms should be something that is looked into, its really annoying to have the difference.

I agree, if volley could maintain her stacks, or if stacks lasted longer/fell off at some smaller interval, I think she would be okay. Its just that it is almost impossible to effectively use her Q in its current state.

I would need to test it as well, but I think she can crit with static now. Crit is back on her kit in the form of double slow, and I know she procs warlords when she gets her double slow. Long story short, Crits work on Ashe.

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