Garen is not a well designed champ sure, but you need to understand why he is not allowed to be meta

SUPERMOVA·Mar 29, 2017·3 votes·1,413 views

Garen's kit is flawwed, i'm sure most can agree with this, Riot openly admitted they leave him in a weaker state compared to the other juggernauts because he offers minor counterplay when he is in the meta. If Riot wanted to make Garen a viable pick in higher elos while also being stable in low elos would mean they have to remove/change the pubstompy aspects of his kit VILLAIN MECHANIC.

As a Garen one trick pony myself, I have seen what Garen's true limits are, he is unable to keep up with the new mobility creep champions with their overloaded kits, his usefullness in teamfights are mediocre at best, but he gets outclassed by heavy cc champions, he is a durable fucker though I will say that, and has decent damage to take down carries IF he manages to reach them.

I feel Garen is not in the worst spot anymore after the buff to his E (judgement) went through, but he is also not in a "balanced" spot. I know theres a few Garen mains on these boards, and I want them all to be aware that yes, Garen doesn't have a greatly desgined kit, and is weaker against the better players you face, but you also have to understand why Riot leave him in this weak spot, its because of the villain mechanic, and until Riot finally change this in his kit he will have to stay vitually the same. That being said, if you want to play Garen in order to climb out of your elo, it is definately possible to climb with, up to a certain extent.

23 Comments

chipndip1Mar 29, 20172 votes

Villain mechanic isn't why Garen is weak. The fact that Garen can't miss anything he does is why Garen is weak.

Eternal TormentMar 29, 20171 votes

i dont Play garen a lot but yeah i have to agree. he is in this awkward position where he is not a contestent pick, yet at the same time he is somewhat viable depending on a specific enemy composition. I personally see garen Players often when the toplaner on our team is either a heavily Skill based one like maybe a jayce, a renekton or someone who Needs to be shut down early like Nasus. Garen is in my personal opinion somewhat okay, not balanced, not op, not up, hes Kind of in this middle inbetween everything. you can Play with him if you want and he certainly is a free ticket in the low elo regions but he is an arguable pick. His villain mechanic serves him the purpose to shut down enemies on a killing spree, you basically mark as a villain the guy who got the most kills or the guy who made the latest kill if there are no sprees recorded and that gives this Kind of vibe that you really only wanna Play him when you want to focus on the shut downs, which is a double edged sword because you cant shut down someone who isnt fed but still carries the team, per say a support, a full tank top.

In my opinion garen is just barely above this line that separates "okay" from "Needs a buff"

PoskeMar 29, 20171 votes

No it has nothing to do with that. Villan mechanic Just No

In order for Garen to be Viable he needs to have extremly high dmg

**Riot wants Garen to be extremly noob friendly champ which he is **

they would have to do some insanely massive buffs if they want to see garen picked at high elo To the point where Garen would be balanced in high elo while having 60% winrate in low elo

So yeah blame it on comunity and riot for not DOING ANYTHING correct with his rework

Eternal TormentMar 29, 20171 votes

arguable, how is something noobfriendly actually a bad Thing? newer Players Need to enter this game SOMEHOW, and garen imo is ideal for just that spot. He is a good practicing tool for tanks, Bruisers and for a strong focus with the goal of shutting down someone. They would most likely Need to either scale his damage stronger, give his ultimate some form of scaling OR give him back the scaling duration of his silence, but garen as it is isnt in that much of a bad spot. as i said, arguable

PoskeMar 29, 20171 votes

I am fine with Noob friendly stuff

What I am not Fine is **POTATO CHAMPION DESIGNS **

And garen falls under that category

Yasuo is noob friendly champion (Resoursless, easy farming, Op at low elo because of that) yet him being noob friendly champion is not something which stops him from being a great champion even in Challenger. Because HE HAS A HIGH SKILL FLOOR ** GAREN DOESNT EVEN HAVE A FKING FLOOR NOR HE KNOWS WHAT THE FK FLOOR IS **

Whats even sadder is that the champion already had a rework which did nothing but added more irelevant gimmicks

As far as I am concerned Garen can be removed from league none ll miss him

Eternal TormentMar 29, 20171 votes

well, there are a few potato champions. the main issue why garen is frustrating to deal with is that he has no skillshots and an execute that has a good chance to hit with true damage, infact everything that damages can deal true damage BUT only to one specific target which in most cases is going to be a hypercarry that has a low hp pool. since his true damage on every damage source outside his ult scales with 1% max hp the damage difference is nill almost. another reason why garen is a frustrating enemy to face is that he has no skillshots at all. his Q is an AA enhance with a garuanteed silence, his W gives him passive tank stats just from CSing and actively reduces all damage sources by 30% even true damage (ignite only Thing ingame that isnt reduced) his E shreds armor after just 4 ticks and scales idiotically high if you max it first and his ult, as i said, is an execution that initially deals Magic damage and will deal true damage assuming youre the villain.

Garen might not be the most difficult champion to Play nor master, but that doesnt make him batshit broken. Garen is instantly put to uselessness by even the slightest disengage spells that force him away, vayne E gragas and lee sin ults are just 3 examples of many.

While you may not miss garen many others would do, he is as i mentioned in my own comment in this awkward spot. He is mainly picked to counterplay and shut down and that is what makes him an toxic experience, but not a toxic champion. Garen isnt strong, he is frustrating. theres a difference that many people do not understand

PoskeMar 29, 20171 votes

Garen is frustrating to deal with ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Most harmless champion in league which autoloses every game frustrating to deal with because getting free wins because enemy picked garen is kinda annoying

If you think garen is frustrating to deal with or think that he is perceived as a champion which is frustrating to deal with .. you are max silver3

Eternal TormentMar 29, 20171 votes

well you can think that, i dont judge peoples opinions. i did state garen can be countered and outplayed rather easy and i also defined he is a solid counterpick for said lower elo :/ idk what you missed in my Texts that i wrote

ZephyrDrakeMar 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=126EcLW2,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-03-29T11:44:49.990+0000)

I am fine with Noob friendly stuff

What I am not Fine is **POTATO CHAMPION DESIGNS **

And garen falls under that category

Yasuo is noob friendly champion (Resoursless, easy farming, Op at low elo because of that) yet him being noob friendly champion is not something which stops him from being a great champion even in Challenger. Because HE HAS A HIGH SKILL FLOOR ** GAREN DOESNT EVEN HAVE A FKING FLOOR NOR HE KNOWS WHAT THE FK FLOOR IS **

Whats even sadder is that the champion already had a rework which did nothing but added more irelevant gimmicks

As far as I am concerned Garen can be removed from league none ll miss him

this is wrong in so many ways it's not even funny. Yasuo is a noob friendly champion? i have literally heard it all

Also no one will miss him? why because you won't that means that no one will? nice logic there and if we go by fail reworks i guess we should remove Kayle, Ryze, Eve just to name a few champions

PoskeMar 29, 20171 votes

You clearly have no idea what noob friendly champion means

Just check yasuo Winrate and banrate in low elo. That alone is the confirmation that he is noob friendly

A CHAMPION can be noob friendly while having highskillcap YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ MY ENTIRE POST BEFORE YOU POST it in autistic manner

Yes The whole 3 Casual League players ll miss garen

Kayle rework. K then... idk what are you smoking No interation of ryze was potato champ same with eve they have dedicated playerbases, they are viable across all elos and i dont see your point because there is none

RalanrMar 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=126EcLW2,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2017-03-29T13:25:44.562+0000)

You clearly have no idea what noob friendly champion means

Just check yasuo Winrate and banrate in low elo. That alone is the confirmation that he is noob friendly

Except Yasuo isn't a noob friendly champion. He's a heavy mechanical champion which gets banned often in low elo because people don't know how to deal with that.

Noob friendly champions are usually those with fewer mechanics and low skill floors. They often teach you basic stuff through their abilities. Warwick for example is a noob friendly jungler who gets easy sustain in the jungle and an ability that tells you who you can best gank at the moment. Annie is a noob champion because her four proc stun passive teaches you spell combos. Pantheon teaches last hitting with his E passive, etc.

PoskeMar 29, 20171 votes

http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/EUNE/Sub%20HeroCro/summary

I am top 100th yasuo world

He is not banned in low elo because he is heavy mechanical champion. He is banned tehre because even a bronze player can farm and mash their keyboard to a relativly high success with him

What makes him easy in bronze is the fact that he has no cooldowns + easy mode farming

Never in my post I said that** yasuo is not heavy mechanical champion** I just said that he is noob friendly which judging by a stats is true

Garen is noob friendly champion With 0 mechanics AKA what I called Potato champ Yasuo is noob friendly champion with bunch of mechanics

See I am fine with noob friendly champs as long as they have high skillcap

Another example Le bl is non noob friendly champion with bunch of mechanics

RalanrMar 29, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=126EcLW2,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-29T14:08:16.345+0000)

http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/EUNE/Sub%20HeroCro/summary

I am top 100th yasuo world

He is not banned in low elo because he is heavy mechanical champion. He is banned tehre because even a bronze player can farm and mash their keyboard to a relativly high success with him

Because a bronze player can't actually punish a Yasuo player like a higher elo player could.

What makes him easy in bronze is the fact that he has no cooldowns + easy mode farming

This doesn't make him noob friendly, this just makes him a pain to fight against in bronze. Otherwise you could say Riven is noob friendly, which she isn't.

Never in my post I said that** yasuo is not heavy mechanical champion** I just said that he is noob friendly which judging by a stats is true

I don't see how high bans in bronze makes him a noob friendly champion.

Garen is noob friendly champion With 0 mechanics AKA what I called Potato champ

Sure.

Yasuo is noob friendly champion with bunch of mechanics

I think you are overestimating what a noob in bronze is.

See I am fine with noob friendly champs as long as they have high skillcap

Noob friendly champions usually lack a high skillcap. That combined with a low skill floor is why they are noob friendly.

PoskeMar 29, 20171 votes

Barely anyone can punish a good yasuo... chall players struggle to. The tempo yasuo has on game is insane

See I main riven to and riven unlike yasuo she is not noob friendly. Infact riven winrate is not good in low elo despite smurfs/boosters favoriting riven

Yasuo wont get punished if he spamms E and Q on a wave (except by a jungler if he pushes) while gaining to much CS for an average bronze elo

While riven can be punished if she doesnt respect her own cooldowns

A bad riven is essentially not doing anything correctly A bad yasuo isnt doing much correctly but by pushing the wave and spamming his moves he is pressuring a low elo to farm under tower while not giving up anything

Avg bronze yasuo has way to much farm compared to other champs

Any champion who has easy time farming is generaly noob friendly regardless of his skillcap

RalanrMar 29, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=126EcLW2,comment-id=000100000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-29T14:50:26.722+0000)

Barely anyone can punish a good yasuo... chall players struggle to. The tempo yasuo has on game is insane

That's often considered a problem for a champion that snowballs as hard as he does, yes.

I don't see how that makes Yasuo a noob champion though. Usually noob champions are easily punished because of their lack of play making potential.

See I main riven to and riven unlike yasuo she is not noob friendly. Infact riven winrate is not good in low elo despite smurfs/boosters favoriting riven

Except Riven and Yasuo have the similar trait of being able to snowball hard early if they know their basics. Riven however falls off.

Yasuo wont get punished if he spamms E and Q on a wave (except by a jungler if he pushes) while gaining to much CS for an average bronze elo

Again, hard to punish for a bronze player.

While riven can be punished if she doesnt respect her own cooldowns

Or if her opponent doesn't.

A bad riven is essentially not doing anything correctly

And can still work because it's bronze.

A bad yasuo isnt doing much correctly but by pushing the wave and spamming his moves he is pressuring a low elo to farm under tower while not giving up anything

Except being an easier gank target.

Avg bronze yasuo has way to much farm compared to other champs

Any champion who has easy time farming is generaly noob friendly regardless of his skillcap

So...all mages are noob champions then?

Or just everyone with waveclear?

PoskeMar 29, 20171 votes

yasuo is not a noob champion

He is a noob friendly champion

Which means that he is friendly towards beginners because they ll learn fast spamm fast farm easy etc

A noob champion is a champion without skillcap like Garen

I would never call any champion I main a noob champion XD Since i am drawn to highskillcap

also as far as farming with mages go Ahri Not noob friendly. You literaly q a wave all minions survive with 1 hp then they die to enemy minions

Anivia Not noob friendly specially till lvl 6 (Expect 10 minions max from low elo players till she hits that) and because low elo players dont know that extra R tick (Cancel it for a burst) can save a mana

Unless he is ahead his W>E is not enough. Also he is required to group a wave and clear it then i assume low elo players cant group minions on 1 spot

Annie Well she has decent base dmg on Q. However q can only get 1 minion at a time so its not like annie players are above farm in average

Syndra Eh If bronze players were smart enough to put 2 levels in W early on (even dia players arent) they would have way easier time farming. W can also save a minion which is about to die. Farming with her should be easier then with all champions above ^^ however farming with her is harder then farming with yas

Zed easy farming with his Passive excecute and Q in a melee vs melee matchup.. Other then that farming with him is not noob friendly

Ekko same with ahri

Also the fact that mages dont have high base ad Doran blade makes farming for them if they use AA hard

Yasuo can always save a last hit by pressing e on the end of hit. There is a wierd Crit spike where farming with him is not as noob friendly because you have to count a crit fking it up but in general farming with him is fast and easy

I can keep going. You are mainly overating mage waveclear I bet you are one of those who still think ziggs has a place in a metagame as a waveclear champ

RalanrMar 29, 20171 votes

Oh so that's what you meant. Ok, I took you too extreme there.

Ziggs is more meta because of his pushing power rather than his waveclear last I checked.

And maybe I do overrate waveclear. I'm a Sion main if that's any indication.

ZephyrDrakeMar 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=126EcLW2,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2017-03-29T13:25:44.562+0000)

You clearly have no idea what noob friendly champion means

Just check yasuo Winrate and banrate in low elo. That alone is the confirmation that he is noob friendly

A CHAMPION can be noob friendly while having highskillcap YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ MY ENTIRE POST BEFORE YOU POST it in autistic manner

Yes The whole 3 Casual League players ll miss garen

Kayle rework. K then... idk what are you smoking No interation of ryze was potato champ same with eve they have dedicated playerbases, they are viable across all elos and i dont see your point because there is none

yes because winrate means anything at low elos. Keep saying that all you want maybe one day it'll actually come true. Please now i know you have zero idea of what yo are talking about and are nothing more than a troll who hates garen for no reason whatsoever

Dominick DestineMar 29, 20171 votes

I agree, rework Ganre.

PoskeMar 29, 20171 votes

They already did DIDNT they KAPPA!!!

Makior72Mar 29, 20171 votes

Garen main here, granted I'm only gold 5 (gold2 at end of last season) but honestly I think Garen is in a fine spot, the thing I see most preventing him from being meta is

Lack of hard CC compared to meta tank tops
Lack of damage compared to carry tops.

The first is honestly not a problem imo as Garens silence is used correctly is already debilitating enough to the enemy.

With the second however, I feel that when I see other people play Garen they just build him... wrong....

When I see other people play Garen I usually see ONE damage item built (black cleaver) and then full tank from that point on. The games where I've had the most success as Garen I build 2-3 damage items, it makes his team fight a lot more meaningful. Otherwise you're just a tank people can mostly ignore.

The issue of him not being able to catch people I find can also be solved with runes and build changes. I almost never see deadman plate built on Garen, or ghost blade, or movement quints , but these are all things that would help a lot in catching those hard to catch characters.

Are you gonna catch that ahri? Prolly not, nor talon, nor udyr, nor quinn. Or yi, but the vast majority of adcs and mids you can catch, or just path better through the jungle to catch people off guard.

Critmaster GarenMar 29, 20171 votes

if he wasnt allowed to be meta, riot wouldnt have buffed him with the armor shred to make him viable.

the problem is that the constant environmental changes keep his strength declining despite the buffs. the armor shred offset that decline for a while, but its still going down.

i really hope the tank update and the item and mastery changes that come with it will positively affect juggernauts aswell, since theyre building a lot of the same items as tanks.