Looking at your own flaws doesn't make other's go away

Hello I am Bird··19 votes·1,578 views

This is going to be somewhat of a controversial subject, but as it stands, I'm in Bronze 3. I'm going to assume for the sake of the thread that my ranked MMR and normals MMR are somewhat in the same ball park.

This isn't going to be a thread complaining about ELO Hell, but I do want to explain that this becomes less of a problem the higher up you go. (Probably :p)

I had a game recently where I was playing Darius matched up against a Lulu. Their team was obviously a 5 man premade while none of us had queued together. They were able to coordinate 4-man ganks within the first 4 minutes and got lots of kills.

Of course, we all fed, and that led to some back and forth bickering from the ADC and the support. Without trying to sound like I'm on a high horse (that tends to only get them more mad) I tried to tell them to mute each other.

They ignored me, and decided to keep arguing.

The enemy team was starting to fall apart. Something on their side went wrong and they started throwing. By this point it was approaching late game and we had a teamfight that almost cost us our base because our ADC "Didn't want to deal with Thresh".

However, we won the teamfight somehow, and had 4 of us up while they only had their Lee Sin, so the ADC's splitpushing worked. I TPed up and we got one of their nexus towers. Then Lulu spawned back in so we had to run, but we made progress.

The support decided he would go in 1v5 to show the ADC what's what, and he died. The ADC then decided to throw himself in and they both died. So we tried to defend an open nexus with two inhibitors down against 5 people who had now gotten baron.

We lost a perfectly winnable game because Thresh and Draven argued and decided to go against one another instead of the enemy team.

I could have carried perfectly and gotten an ace, but that doesn't mean that they would follow up. Yes there were still 2 other people, but as it stood, they weren't very good at pushing or sieging. Of course I didn't perfectly carry, we were 5 solos against a premade queue, there was no way we could have, but I did turn a 25 minute game into a 40-50 minute game.

This isn't a thread saying that "omg my temmates r bad i deserve challanger", because for the most part I belong where I am.

I am still open to improvement, and saw a lot of stupid decisions myself that I hope to improve upon.

My point is that you cannot ignore your team mate's mistakes. It's simply impossible. I could be an amazing player but that still doesn't mean that I can carry 4 other people who are all working against me. Even one person working against us is sometimes even worse than a ragequitter, because they will actively ASSIST the enemy team past the point of making it a 4v5.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should look at your own mistakes, and don't point fingers, but sometimes, when you have a bad match, it's fine for you to realize "It's not always entirely my fault". This makes you feel, at the very least, a bit better.

######And I kinda just wanted to tell the story of my game to let off some steam, but I may as well make it productive, right c:

29 Comments

DrCyanide4 votes

Your story says the exact opposite of your conclusion to me.

Imagine if Draven and Thresh had ignored each other's mistakes. How winnable would that game have been?

Dessem1 votes

but sometimes, when you have a bad match, it's fine for you to realize "It's not always entirely my fault". This makes you feel, at the very least, a bit better.

Sure, but it should never get in the way of realising that you probably should not have engaged that Shen three levels, 50 CS and six kills over you while you're playing Teemo. c:

Some games you lose because your team mates are shitters.

Even in those games, learn from your mistakes. (Unless you're happy being in Bronze, of course, in which case... by all means, captain.)

Hello I am Bird2 votes

Of course you should still look at your mistakes and learn from them. But sometimes having morale is better than actually improving.

A captain could train his soliders for days on end and sure they would technically be better, but they would all be tired as shit and cranky and wouldn't want to do this anymore.

The only difference is that League is a voluntary game and you can just quit (Assuming you aren't completely hooked like some of us), and I would prefer to see bad players stay playing the game to eventually play better rather than seeing them leave because of one match that their team mates fucked up for them and they blamed themselves only for it.

Paladin 0f Life1 votes

Bud a few bad games happen its bronze. I can tell you that b2 is old s4. I know i can climb out i shit on most people at this elo. I just dont have the time yet to climb. There are differences between b5, 4 ,3, and 2. B1 is basically silver now and silver 5 is like b2 again then s4 and up even out again. Cuz s5 is what new lvl 30s get often. B5 and 4 are trash and easy to carry with as long as they dont feed purposely and afk which u can still carry since they are so bad. B3 was easy and b2 is slightly challenging in that i cant do dumb shit and throw past 45mins like you can pre b2. Elo hell is your skill cap and it just means you have to climb

Hello I am Bird2 votes

Not exactly what the thread was about, but okay.

I don't care about climbing at all. I just got my provisionals done and want to enjoy the game.

Sometime near the end I might try to climb to silver for the border, but other than that, it's w/e

Live2LetDie1 votes

After my last game I would say any game is winnable even if early went horrible. My mid and top lane both fed like crazy, down 2 inhibs and a nexus tower. I was tilted but bot refused to give up and join in the bitching back and forth and we came back to win.

I would agree morale is a huge importance in a game and can be the turning point.

Also there is no elo hell. Start thining like that and you will never climb or improve. Elo hell does not exist

Hello I am Bird4 votes

Didn't I specifically say there is no ELO hell in my thread or did I miscommunicate something?

Live2LetDie2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hello I am Bird,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0lcburPv,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-03-21T16:54:31.516+0000)

Didn't I specifically say there is no ELO hell in my thread or did I miscommunicate something to you?

"This isn't going to be a thread complaining about ELO Hell, but I do want to explain that this becomes less of a problem the higher up you go. (Probably :p)"

Took that as "im not saying it's elo hell but it is elo hell"

Hello I am Bird1 votes

What I meant by that is that I am pretty sure that if you are in a higher ELO this isn't so much of a problem. Another example like this would be someone trying to tank tower at level 1 with his team to try and get an early mid tower. Perhaps that is a bit of an exaggeration but it's something you would not see in Gold or Plat.

I don't mean to say that "I'm stuck in elo hell and I'm never gonna get out", rather "There are just gonna be some games that I cannot win, and this tends to apply to low ELO only". Maybe they are the same thing, but I find them to be a bit different at the very least.

Wolf Queen1 votes

wait you actually see a lvl 1 tanking a tower in bronze?

Hello I am Bird1 votes

No, not really. It was just an example.

Well, I mean sometimes when people invade, but that's a different story.

GlockHammer2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hello I am Bird,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0lcburPv,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-21T17:02:59.939+0000)

What I meant by that is that I am pretty sure that if you are in a higher ELO this isn't so much of a problem. Another example like this would be someone trying to tank tower at level 1 with his team to try and get an early mid tower. Perhaps that is a bit of an exaggeration but it's something you would not see in Gold or Plat.

I don't mean to say that "I'm stuck in elo hell and I'm never gonna get out", rather "There are just gonna be some games that I cannot win, and this tends to apply to low ELO only". Maybe they are the same thing, but I find them to be a bit different at the very least.

Sorry to let you down, but throwing/misplaying is a problem that goes all the way up to challenger, I'm a gold 1 player and people in my division/league throw all the time.

Speedphoenix1 votes

@hello I am Bird I didn't read your whole post, but I like what I think you wrote and let me tell you this: ( :D ) when you're in bronze you can carry a game by being way better than the others(unless afk or intentional feeds but wel...) because the others do so many mistakes that a team's mistakes end up compensating the other's, and if you improve a little you will probably win.

In silver, in terms of skill people are usually low gold, however they only look at the others' flaws and end up ruining games, giving up after first blood etc... and their rankings end up stagnating.

People in low gold (G4/5) actually have the same skill level as (S3/2/1) but see their own (and the others) misstakes and have more room for improovement. I am currently in gold and don't really know about the higher up :3

however let me tell you one thing: the atmosphere in Silver is really bad :/

Wolf Queen1 votes

Just dont play darius in bronze. He requires getting ahead. If your not fed you just get kited easily. Hard to carry on a champ with no gap closers, especially against premades :)

Flucksicle1 votes

So, here is the thing.

You have control over your own flaws. Telling your teammate how to play "better" (quotes because subjectivity) won't make them better. One of the hardest things for people to understand is play style. When your style doesn't match someone you play with, you have a bad time. I'm a mid/jg main and as a jungler I counter jungle a lot and expect help from mid. As a midlaner I roam a lot with my jungler. When I have a mid laner or a jungler who doesn't play similar to me, I do bad. It's because I created a dependency in my play style and you as a random will not know this.

You have to realize that you and the other team mate are in the same elo for different reasons. You both belong where you are until you prove otherwise.

And honestly I've been from bronze to plat. Shit team mates are normal and even in plat you get them. It never gets better. Its because "shit" is subjective. And because of how snowbally this season is, the ability to carry individually is greater than ever. You can single handedly stomp better than ever.

You are wasting time trying to find flaws in teammates. You probably won't see them again. You also probably won a ton of games because the enemy team has shit team mates. But you often forget that, because you are winning.

Robbit Mang1 votes

My advice to you is just to look at the game as an experience to improve and chalk it up to "it happens, I'll play even better next game and win". Just the nature of the community unfortunately

The Rewritten1 votes

Like with all imperfect sayings, it has to be applied in the right context.
The notion of looking at your own mistakes alone is more of advice for achieving the right mindset to climb.

It's not about winning games by looking at your mistakes, it's about slowly becoming a better player (which in turn will help you climb).
Rather than first thinking about climbing, one should first think about actually becoming better at the game.


But that, of course, doesn't fully address the content of your post.

Yeah, shit happens. You can't win every game by just being good, just like how you can't completely 1v5 a (decent) enemy team no matter how fed you are. You'll have those bad games, but just remember that everyone has those bad games. Everyone gets thrown games at times. But as long as you keep your head cool, take some breaks when you're tilted, and always continue to learn from your mistakes, you'll be able to climb. Slowly, over dozens of games (or maybe hundreds), but eventually you will get better.

Good luck out there on the Rift.

morris11 votes

Typical, overused "get 5 man premade". It worked wonders the few times I tried it, if you 5 get along you settle down everything that doesn't have to do with actual gameplay. Personally, 4 friends that *may be bad but get along are better than 5 strangers that let their emotions turn themselves into sworn enemies and troll in all imaginable ways.

Hello I am Bird1 votes

######Assumes I have 5 friends to play league with

Dreadlocks1 votes

People climb out of bronze all the time man..

Sammystorm1 votes

Even in unwinnable games mistakes are made by every player in the game. That is what people mean by ignore other peoples mistakes. Focus instead on what you have control of: your mistakes.

Llanite1 votes

And pointing out someone else's flaw do not make it go away. The end result is the same, why bother opening your mouth and make everyone uncomfortable?

If they don't welcome your "valuable" input, it's not that "valuable" and you might as well keep it for yourself.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

The point of the thread was not to encourage people to point out other people's flaws.

GenghisEmo1 votes

Context was different. He/she wasnt talking pointing out others mistakes. It was about "it isnt always me messing up". And he/she is right.

GenghisEmo1 votes

You are perfectly right.

But im sure ppl wont thoroughly read the post and it will become a "i deserve challenjour" thread somehow XD

Hellioning1 votes

But that's the thing: sure, it's not always your fault you lose, but focusing on that doesn't make you more likely to climb. It makes that particular game sting less. Even in games where you play very well and still don't manage to carry, you made mistakes; the entire point behind focusing on your own play is so that you focus on your mistakes and resolve to change them, instead of going 'WELP couldn't possibly win that one oh well' and ignoring your mistakes.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

It isn't always going to be your fault that you have lost since it is a team game; some games, their team is just better than your team. Quite frankly, assuming you are being matched with players of similar skill, you should approach a 50% win rate anyways.

While it is true that looking at your own flaws doesn't make other players' flaws go away, it is similarly true that blaming your allies for being the reason behind your losses doesn't help you improve.

You have to focus on what you can do to improve your own play. While you may not have been able to change the outcome of that game, you should try to figure out what you could have done better to possibly salvage the situation so that you know what to do in future games.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Though it's not really your fault, but that doesn't mean you have no control.

Of course you can't win every damn game, but you can always try or even enforce shotcalling. As a top laner who often have the power to snowball, there's always room for improvement. Yeah, sounds like an overused statement, but it's true.

Don't give up :)

DarthSpectrum1 votes

This happened 3 times in my Plat promos.

I would get a player like Draven or Thresh once every 3 or 4 games. There is no escape. What you can do however, is to capitalize on the games where everyone on your team are normal human beings. Do your best to carry and you will climb. In my promos, the enemy team also had these kind of players for 2 games. It balances out eventually.

The real underlying issue in this matter is that Draven and Thresh will never be punished for intentionally throwing. Riot literally does nothing unless the player in question always intentionally feeds. Riot is afraid to start banning these players because suppose they do ban an intentional feeder in the high ELOs, then low ELO player can simply point to legit misplays and demand their teammates be banned as well. Riot can't raise the standards any higher without screwing over innocent players who legitimately screwed up.

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