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Why do people say Rengar takes no skill and hate on Rengar mains?

IonChamber··4 votes·4,753 views

I guess I'm by no means amazing with him. I guess I'm actually so bad at him and so bad at laning that I feel like im forced to jungle him most of the time when I play him. If I lane him, I usually lose lane (barring an early kill for me), and it takes some real patience and effort to try and keep my CS near even if they pick any of the 99 percent of top laners that counter him. I am actually forced (unlike a lot of tops) to roam no matter what as Rengar top in a winning or losing lane.

But if/when I do get fed and start trying to carry and doing well (and it's never a sure thing to carry with Rengar because you might kill their adc and get out or another, but the second your ult is down it will be hard to join a fight away from bushes without just getting gibbed) people just start to hate. RENGAR IS LAME RENGAR TAKES NO SKILL YOU SUCK RENGAR MAIN. Always in the post game champ RENGAR IS SO CHEAP.

But here's the thing: Rengar jungle is hell. That first clear is always verging on death trying to get enough gold and it takes a lot of micromanagement all game. You have to keep your camps cleared and keep your ferocity stacked. At any time any jungle can invade you, and if you don't have ferocity stacked you're probably going to die. You might die anyways. They nerfed his ult so much the cooldown until lvl 11 is atrocious and if people pay attention and ward well it requires flash to engage. His pre 6 ganks require a skillshot with no gapcloser and require you show up with 5 ferocity prepared and if you're not half hp or greater you can't do it most likely and he has no sustain. Post 6 ganks the ult cooldown is horrendous.

So when a rengar jungle gets fed early or mid, it's not easy work. Rengar top takes off a LOT quicker because he doesn't need the crummy jungle item.

The other thing about rengar is this. When I started playing him I tried a variety of builds. I tried tankgar, I tried bruiser rengar, and I failed so miserably it was depressing. I liked the feel of him and wanted to learn him so I stuck with it, but he's the ONLY champion I've mained that I got roflstomped hard every game to start with. What I learned was there is really only one way to play Rengar, and that is full AD nuke carry.

FUll AD nuke carry with potentially one safety item (banshees/randuins/or ga) which is almost always banshees for the one spell cc block freebie at an engage. And honestly what I've learned playing Rengar is that the one defensive item often won't save your ass, but instead if I finish off with an IE, I'm much more like to make my pick and get out or make a kill.

Finally, playing Rengar immediately hurts your teams ability to teamfight. Often times I find we have no tanky engage, which puts even more pressure on me to play well and carry and make those picks.

I guess what I'm trying to say is rengar takes an immense amount of timing, patience, positioning, and map awareness to really play. At least in my book, because when you're behind you aint makin any plays or picks. And even when you're ahead you're made of glass. And if their team is smart and groups, the pick is a ton harder. If they buy pinks, it takes even more patience. And if they've played rengar then they know they can abuse the need to land that empowered bola leap by standing on minions (which is hell). Vs. good players that empowered bola leap can be a real pain...

Am I wrong and I just suck or is this truly a difficult champion to play well?

9 Comments

Nameless Voice5 votes

I have respect for anyone who plays a glasscannon mêlée champion without escapes.

I'm amazed how many people don't know how to play against a Rengar or how to deal with him when he gets fed, even at Platinum level.

Yes, he can feel a bit cheap when he gets fed, but he's still always beatable with intelligent play and teamwork. Also note that he's beatable by how people play, not what they play. He's not one of those champions that people despise because their success is decided in champion select. Rengar needs to play smarter than his opponents and can be beaten by his opponents playing smarter than him.

I don't play Rengar myself, but yes, I think he requires skill to play well. He's both mechanically complex (managing ferocity) and tactically complex (fragile, has to have great positioning/timing.)

Khristophoros4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0hR6KE4d,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-07-13T19:46:20.618+0000)

I have respect for anyone who plays a glasscannon mêlée champion without escapes.

I'm amazed how many people don't know how to play against a Rengar or how to deal with him when he gets fed, even at Platinum level.

Yes, he can feel a bit cheap when he gets fed, but he's still always beatable with intelligent play and teamwork. Also note that he's beatable by how people play, not what they play. He's not one of those champions that people despise because their success is decided in champion select. Rengar needs to play smarter than his opponents and can be beaten by his opponents playing smarter than him.

I don't play Rengar myself, but yes, I think he requires skill to play well. He's both mechanically complex (managing ferocity) and tactically complex (fragile, has to have great positioning/timing.)

Ok how do you play "smarter" than him?

Why does Rengar have to play "smarter" than his opponents?

You actually didn't explain any of that outside of claiming that he's fragile, which actually isn't true. He doesn't need to build full glass to 100-0 people and he has his roar with the heal and bonus defenses.

His tactical complexity is low relative to other assassins and melee carries because of his stealth + jump. He still has to flank correctly to minimize the warning window of his stealth "!" mechanic, but it's still a massive advantage over other champions who need to flank because they have no stealth+MS bonus before their leap. So even with his warning mechanic his flanking is much easier to do than other melee champions. It's similar to Shaco's flanking except Rengar does way more damage and is tankier.

Nameless Voice1 votes

Generally, you play smarter than him with good positioning (grouping up to defend each other) and smart use of pink wards.

He has to play smarter than his opponents because he can't actually 100%->0% people unless he's fed, instead he has to be opportunistic and go in at the opportune moment. Even when he is fed enough to 100%->0% someone, he has to go in at a time when he won't just instantly die afterwards.

As for the flanking, this type of champion in general takes more tactical complexity than most other types; the same applies to others like Shaco, Master Yi, Evelynn, Kha'zix, etc. I'm not saying he's the hardest champion in this category, but rather that he's harder than someone with more mobility and escape potential.

Khristophoros2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0hR6KE4d,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-07-13T20:12:32.939+0000)

Generally, you play smarter than him with good positioning (grouping up to defend each other) and smart use of pink wards.

He has to play smarter than his opponents because he can't actually 100%->0% people unless he's fed, instead he has to be opportunistic and go in at the opportune moment. Even when he is fed enough to 100%->0% someone, he has to go in at a time when he won't just instantly die afterwards.

As for the flanking, this type of champion in general takes more tactical complexity than most other types; the same applies to others like Shaco, Master Yi, Evelynn, Kha'zix, etc. I'm not saying he's the hardest champion in this category, but rather that he's harder than someone with more mobility and escape potential.

Generally they have more tactical complexity because their flanking isn't spoonfed to them by Rengar's ridiculous ult. Not only is it stealth but it also has a massive MS bonus and the leap is just as good as the typical targeted gap closers on top of that.

Shaco has comparably easy flanking, but he does a lot less damage, needs more items to 100-0 people. He pays a lot more for the easy flanking than Rengar does.

IonChamber1 votes

{quoted}

Generally they have more tactical complexity because their flanking isn't spoonfed to them by Rengar's ridiculous ult. Not only is it stealth but it also has a massive MS bonus and the leap is just as good as the typical targeted gap closers on top of that.

Shaco has comparably easy flanking, but he does a lot less damage, needs more items to 100-0 people. He pays a lot more for the easy flanking than Rengar does.

That massive MS bonus he gets is after hes gotten 20 kills/assists you realize? Until then its nonexistent. And even then its only when hes moving toward champions in a certain range. The cooldown on it at lower levels is like 2 minutes? It even gives you a warning exclamation long before leap range. Aside from that his ult is only a gapcloser with a few ferocity built in and some MS AFTER it ends. Spoonfed is silly. Also if you're playing rengar and not ganking or failing ganks pre 6, it's gonna be a real rough time for you.

EndlessSorcerer4 votes

Because they lack the skill to play against Rengar.

I've rarely had issues laning against Rengar or denying him the opportunity to kill me when he's jungling. He's also really easy to invade and kill when he's jungling, since he gets really low on his first clear.

I've only had issues dealing with him when someone on my team fed him or insistent on roaming alone late-game as a squishy champion.

67chrome4 votes

Why do people say Rengar takes no skill and hate on Rengar mains?

He's an assassin.

Everything about the assassin archetype, especially in LoL, runs at odds with what people except from PvE games and pisses people off. Assassins get more kills than other rolls. LoL is about blowing up a Nexus though, not getting kills: kills is just a means to that end. Assassins are better duelists than several rolls. LoL is a 5v5 game though, not a 1v1 game, and assassins are awful team-fighters to balance that out. Assassins are more mobile than other rolls. Other rolls have defense or range, and occasionally CC, to survive long enough to do their job though. An assassin dodging a skill isn't them being OP and unfair - that's simply their way of not dying. Assassins tend to prey on the weak and out-of-position, killing things before they can really respond. Generally speaking, giving players a chance to react with ~3 ish moves before they're slain seems like what most people expect, rather than being insta-killed with no chance at reacting.

anyways - what I'm trying to get at is this: It's an issue of subjectivity vs. objectivity.

Rengar doesn't objectively take no skill to use. He just makes people think subjectively about him and causes people to flip their shit against him more than you're average champion.

For when people say things like "Rengar takes no skill" it's also worth noting when people are in an emotional fit they aren't really thinking reasonably or logically, so speaking logically is no longer speaking their language. Dealing with that can be...a process, but recognizing the new speech rules they're playing on is half the battle.

Khristophoros1 votes

tldr

because rengar takes no skill and is OP

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