Yasuo just wipes the floor with most of the roster right now.

Bârd··24 votes·1,466 views

And you know what?

That isn't Yasuo himself being OP. Dashes are annoying, windwall is a bitch move, but I wouldn't call them OP exactly.

It's the items and masteries he takes being broken as hell.

These two are by far the worst offenders.

item 3046 has the most stats out of any zeal item, while being cheaper. It doesn't have the damage boost of RFC or Shiv, but the PD speed makes up for it when kiting or chasing. If it stopped here, it would be fine. But nope. 12% damage reduction, on an item intended for squishies.

...

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M050ccb72cb0da49c3d8a7fb935f4f9e3o0&w=78&h=78&c=7&pid=1.1 Ok, who the fuck thought this was a good idea? up to 112 bonus physical damage on hit? For free? SERIOUSLY? Any champion with even a little bit of attack speed can (and do) abuse this mastery to no end.

30 Comments

AceBlack4 votes

Annie Darius Fiora Garen Irelia Jax Lissandra Rammus Tryndamere Udyr Singed Mordekaiser are just a few of the many, many champions that can put an equal-skill level Yas in the dirt very, very easily.

This is due to the fact that against most of these champs Yasuo might as well have 3 active skills.

Of course if there is some burning need for you to play TwistedFate this particular game, there's always summoner 3 .

Melledoneus3 votes

I still think his level 1 is too damn strong.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Then why do you fight him level 1?

If his level 1 is "too damn strong" then don't try to fight him. Also he's squishy as shit, most tops could rip him apart.

Melledoneus1 votes

It's not like I have a choice when I'm farming and that guy just keeps dashing up to me and slapping me over and over. He can force fights and escape them on a dime, and he can win most fights handily.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Yasuos take Q level 1 according to stats. Also... if he does slap you, slapping him back is easy because unless the minion positioning is good, he can't gtfo very quickly. And since he has trash base stats, yeah you could hit him even harder.

Melledoneus1 votes

But the problem is he doesn't need to gtfo. He just chases you relentlessly unless you blow a flash. And after that, the lane goes downhill because he gets several levels on you because you're zoned from farm. Range doesn't mean anything if he can dash up to you in less than a second and start harassing you for it.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

He doesn't, he has shit worth of base stats and if he chases you, the minions will slap his ass real hard. You might want to work on playing around him instead of QQing.

Smok3McCl0ud3 votes

Ya he's extremely overpowered... why can't they just hit his numbers?

Nami in Bush1 votes

{quoted}

Ya he's extremely overpowered... why can't they just hit his numbers?

Yas is dogshit and has been since ~ Illaoi release. Hard CC and not fighting him in a minion wave and he's useless.

Godhri2 votes

Takes a good yasuo to do what you say and thanks to my elo and rank, I do not have to worry about that often. It's maybe 1 out of every 30 games against a yasuo. :)

Death by Glamour4 votes

He's talking about toplane, you are speaking as a midlaner...

Nothing what he says is false

Godhri1 votes

oh. His post didn't indicate anything. I actually think yas is pretty weak top, but I don't play top enough to face yas up top so eh.

Death by Glamour2 votes

He's only good top.

Sure he has some rough matches but thanks to his passive shield which he can trade hard against the melee tanks and bruisers.

Godhri1 votes

yea I play mid laners top whenever I get top like Lissandra Heimerdinger . I'm not sure how he is only good top though. I don't play as much anymore so keeping up with the meta/trend is not really something I have down.

Spicy Rice1 votes

Personally, I attribute his success top to his ability to choose his engages against melees.

By using his dashes and non tornadoe q range, he can easily jump in, do damage, and get out. Often before his opponent can retaliate.

Against ranged matchups, the reverse happens. Often times, yasuo is forced out of lane quickly against opponent who aggressive auto and use their abilities

Schàdenfreude2 votes

Skillcap is a lame excuse when it comes to justification for balancing champions. Just look at Azir back when he still had his numbers high. He was pretty much unstoppable in high elo.

PermabannedGaren11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0VY2NpA8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-09-14T23:54:55.133+0000)

He's talking about toplane, you are speaking as a midlaner...

Nothing what he says is false

Yasuo isn't a problem anymore. So what he said was false.

Death by Glamour4 votes

Pd needs looked at, far better than the other zeal items and more bang for your buck.

As does fervour, it's the best mastery by far on that tier.

Spicy Rice2 votes

It's simply the last one standing after a long line of nerfs to every other offensive mastery

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

I wouldn't be surprised if the idiot that designed the new phantom dancer was CertainlyT

Abandon1 votes

Look, you're right that Yasuo may not be 'o/p' but there's clearly a few things that makes him an outlier to balance.

First of all, he is clearly too versatile. Say what you want to defend Yasuo but it's obvious that he is the type of champion that can succeed in almost any lane. I've seen him top, mid, support and even adc. Obviously it may not be optimal to bring him into an off-role but the fact still remains that he has a very strong kit that is able to let him mitigate punishment and gives him the power to choose when to fight. This basically allows him to be able to go toe-to-toe against most of the league of legend's champion roster.

And secondly, he just synergises with way too many things. Because his Q counts as an auto-attack reset he can literally abuse so many different types of on-hits including those coming keystones and items. While each and every single one of his abilities is not enough to push him to o/p status alone, I think when combined together he is really pushing the limit to what a 'strong champion' is allowed to do.

Love it or hate it, the truth is that yasuo is too well rounded.

*There are not many other champions that I can think of, that can abuse his build and get away with becoming an on-hit tanky bruiser-sassin from one originally intended to be a crit based melee auto attacker.

Desolas Arterius3 votes

If a champion is versatile, isn't that a good thing? I'd really hate it if a champion was ONLY meant for one position, or nerfed to be shoe-horned into that position... I personally thing Yasuo being playable in other lanes is a good thing, just how I like it when other champions can too. Like Jhin can go mid or ADC, Maokai can go jungle, top, and support. Malphite can go top, mid, jungle, and support. And so on. Yasuo being able to strive in other lanes isn't a bad thing and never should be seen as bad for any champion imo.

Also, other champions have just as much synergy. Riven is built around AA resets, Malph also has an AA reset as do other champions. Yasuo isn't the only one who abuses Fervor just so you know ;P I'll agree Fervor is currently the most used/abused keystone, but that's because it works on literally every AA or AD champion. Gnar is a heavy user of Fervor, as is almost every ADC. To pin all the blame on Yasuo really isn't fair considering it isn't his fault, the keystone itself is too strong. I only would have agreed if Fervor was only good on Yasuo to abuse, but that isn't the case really. It just works really well for him, as it does for other AA/AD champions.

I think his well-roundedness is good though. We should really expect champions to be well-rounded, and not forced into one role or only one build path/play style. It's why I like playing flexible champions, though I myself dont play Yasuo. I could never get good with him and that's okay. I still consider him a good champion, but not broken or OP like everyone else thinks. He's easy to counter because his weaknesses are pretty obvious. Not to mention one of his biggest champion counters is a very easy champion to learn (Annie).

Also, for your last bit, I think Ekko is a good example. He was meant to be a bursty melee mage, but ended up doing better as a tank/bruiser build instead. And if you want older examples there was AP Nasus, AD/AS Lulu, and AP Yi. Even Blue-Kong used to be major issues too when they clearly weren't intended. There are plenty of examples of this, the difference is whether or not that unintended build has any clear weaknesses/counters.

I do agree tank yasuo was an issue, but Riot balanced that by restricting the armor pen to crits only. So now Yasuo has to prioritize crit more instead of building PD + tank items. Crit Yasuo is fine and pretty healthy. Has clear intended weaknesses and his abilities are still easy to deal with and dodge (CC will always rekt a Yasuo at any point in the game, so someone like Annie or Naut are perfect counters to him).

I would like to hear your thoughts on why you think a champion being versatile is bad though. That point really struck my curiosity :)

Abandon2 votes

I agree that versatility isn't a 'bad' thing so to speak as I was more focused on the idea that if a champion basically is allowed to be played in any scenario under any circumstance and have very little downside to the idea of match ups (I know he has some bad match ups but for the majority of the roster he does pretty well against) then he may be a little 'too versatile' if you get what I mean. I'm not saying to push him into one role specifically I'm just arguing that it's much easier to balance a champion given that they have a solid identity with a main and a secondary role rather than being allowed to go anywhere and build anything (exaggeration). Being too flexible allows champions like fizz, ekko and yasuo to fore-go their normal builds and opt for 'creative' destructive builds like their tank/bruiser builds. Having versatility on a champ is fine but you can't have the cake and eat it too... either you're a jack of all trades so you don't specialise in anything and hence given tools to deal with different scenarios on a lesser scale to dedicated champs or you're a specialist and do well in the few things you're meant to be good at. Obviously both still need to be balanced accordingly so that we can't have jack of all trades outdoing specialists and specialists doing their role way too well.

In my opinion, the champion I see as being balanced in terms of versatility : power are champions like Orianna, Thresh & Blitz, current Lee Sin (he was similar to yasuo before they stripped a lot of his free power), Nautilus, Shen, current Poppy, Trundle? and probably a few others I've missed. Basically champions that you can pull out in any game and have some flexibility whilst not being overbearing due to not having pure specialist characteristics.

It's not the auto-attack reset specifically that makes Yasuo so good or at least synergetic with so many different builds. I just wanted to point that out because I just wanted to mention he had essentially two autos. What makes him so ridiculous in how he synergises with everything is the fact that his kit offers him so many free stats. I don't want to go on listing stuff because I'm not trying to shit on him but when you're given so many free tools, you are left open to many more options to do whatever the hell you want.

I don't disagree with the fact that keystones essentially caused so much abusable power to be accessable. I'm just trying to say that in Yasuo's case specifcally, when people complain about Yasuo being abusable it's BECAUSE he gets away building essentially anything. When grasp was good he used that, when thunderlords was good he used that, etc. I know some other champs are like this too (fiora comes to mind) and I don't agree with them being able to access so many different power sources so readily either.

On the topic of counter-pick vs counter-play I don't think counter-pick specific champions verify champion health. Yasuo like a lot of other snowbally melee adcs are problem childs, it's just the nature of being a melee adc. To combat range they are given tools to nullify, dodge or close the gap and steroids to amp their damage up. It's when these tools are being abused on other champions however (tanks, melee bruisers, other melee carries i guess, low range mages, etc) and not being punished for it that I can see a problem with it. I can't speak for the balance of Yasuo because I don't have any data, i'm not Riot... I just wanted to bring to light that Yasuo CLEARLY is not your run of the mill, pros + cons champion. I know so many people flock to these types of champions, the ones which can 'outplay' your opponent because they are given so many tools to do so and makes incredible flashy plays. His counter play may seem clear but it gets in murky waters when you have a skilled Yasuo... I'm not saying skilled players should not be rewarded for playing well I'm just hoping that it doesn't become oppressive like Azir where if he's skilled, you're basically shit out of luck.

I hope that sated your curiosity, at the end of the day I'm just giving my 2c though :p

Desolas Arterius2 votes

Actually I really appreciate the time you took to write this! Regardless if we agree or disagree, it's nice to see actual debates or conversations going on instead of the "YASUO SO BROKEN GG" shit I see plague the boards. A lot of what you wrote makes a lot more sense compared to what I've seen.

I do agree with most of what you say however. I do love Yasuo's design and his playstyle, but I agree his tank build was a huge problem and I'm glad to see Riot took some kind of measure against it. I know it wont be completely gone (I mean Fizz and Ekko still go bruiser haha), but they're still trying to balance him. I'd hate to see him gutted again like back when they nerfed him so hard he was no longer viable for a long time.

I think the only thing I disagree with is that I personally think counter-pick champions do show health. If a champion didn't have any natural counter then they would be considered too strong or broken. Having a natural or soft counter is a good show of health. Even having a hard counter is healthy too. It's when they have no counter that it get's bad. Hecen why Tank Yasuo was a big issue. Even his natural/hard counters couldn't effectively counter him before that build got nerfed. A champion should always respond either strongly, fairly, or weakly towards another champion considering the cast is 130+ at this point. If no champions were weak to another I feel like the game health would plummet, or at least be heavily focused on items.

I honestly just think if keystones were nerfed a bit (mostly Fervor) then a lot of these "problem" champions would cease to exist probably.

But yeah. Also my two cents on this :3

And again, I really do appreciate you elaborating on this. First person to give a clear and concise idea to the whole Yasuo issue haha. So thank you!

Abandon2 votes

No... I have to thank you too lol. I don't know how you managed to go through that block of text because it usually ends up as wasted breath.

On the counter-play vs counter-pick argument, I meant having counter-pick as the SOLE counter measure towards a champion, I'm sorry I didn't clarify =P!

I got your points and I agree with a lot of the things you've said. I was just saying that because riot has to constantly look into yasuo/fizz/ekko it's just a show that they are pretty complicated and this can make it tricky for them to balance these types of versatile champions :c

But hey, if there comes a time when they find the perfect fixes or balance changes for these guys then I'd be more than happy to tip my hat off to them and welcome these guys as refreshing champions to the game.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

P.S* Actually now that I think about it, I don't think I ever complained about yasuo in season 5 or a lot of champions for that matter... I think in general this season has been a giant roller coaster of changes and in hindsight somethings were not tested properly to evaluate the effects. The result, champions suddenly appear from nowhere and go nuts.

Desolas Arterius1 votes

Haha I know how that feels. I tend to write too many walls of text so I rarely get replies back, or short ones with no value. So it's nice when someone tries to respond back :D

And the counter-pick makes more sense haha. Thank you for clarifying that. I agree that counter play is far more important than pick.

I think the biggest issue with those three is because of their on-hit effects. Yasuo with his crit/armor pen (although reduced, it still hurts), Ekko with his 3-hit passive, and Fizz with his W passive. I've always noticed those types of champions are the hardest to balance because unless you gut those abilities, they can get away with so much. I'll be honest and say I'm pretty guilty of playing Malphite as tank, pure AD, or pure AP. He can get away with all three and it's really ridiculous to see the numbers he can pull.

Other than during his release month, this has been one of the first seasons where Yasuo has had a pretty big jump in popularity and is being played consistently. Mostly because of the keystones and how they added so much power to these kinds of champions. Yasuo used to be considered really weak, and kind of in the same boat as Azir is now where only the really dedicated could become godlike as him, but he was not friendly to new players using him. I remember when they crippled his MS, AS, and health regen. Made his early game utter garbage unless he got babysat by his jungler. Probably what helped inspire the tank build now that I think about it. Yasuo is really squishy, and since he needs to get into the middle of the fight it makes sense why he was built bruiser for awhile. And with the help of Fervor he didn't have to lose out on damage either. I mean you used to be able to instantly shit on him just playing Zed, Annie, Talon, or other nonskill shot champions with good mobility. He was meant to counter non-mobile mages, or mages that rely heavily on skillshots. Now he's doing better about holding his ground against his counters, but his tank build was just too good at helping him.

I really have to give my hat off to Riot for trying their best to solve the issue. It must be really hard balancing champions who normally are fine, but gain the majority of their power from keystones and items. Because Yasuo as a champion is actually pretty good. It was his current build and ability to abuse it with the keystones that really destroyed his balance :/

Hopefully next season they either redo the mastery system completely, or just really fix the keystones. They were a cool idea, but such a terrible execution in regards to game health :/

Nami in Bush1 votes

Yas is dogshit and has been since ~ Illaoi release. Hard CC and not fighting him in a minion wave and he's useless.

Narasimha1 votes

Ok, who the fuck thought this was a good idea? up to 112 bonus physical damage on hit? For free?

I'm beginning to think people don't know what this means.

agbudar1 votes

honestly the masteries this season were quite a big fail imo. skewed so many champions the wrong way

hOrnn1 votes

nah, windwall is op, it covers all of midlane and blocks everything, its fine if its unbreakable because its a small area.

my opinion.

More from Gameplay

More by Bârd