Why does Riot like to keep a handfull of champs strong AF and the rest utter trash tier

Laura ß·May 5, 2019·2 votes·1,183 views

Its either use one of Riots currently approved OP champions or lose, lose, lose, lose and your team raging at you for not using a currently OP champion.

And the funny thing is most of the current OP champions will be nerfed to oblivion and forgotten by the community except for hardcore mains

<------ remember when she was considered trash tier and only played by hardcore mains now she is currently pick/ban status and noobs who dont even have 10 games with the champion still win because overturned stats outperform skill.

14 Comments

JamareeMay 5, 20193 votes

Some because when they are viable or strong, they utterly stiffle out others, some they let them settle to see if people naturally adapt against others. Also, it isn't possible for everyone to be strong at once.

Soul DealerMay 5, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Some because when they are viable or strong, they utterly stiffle out others, some they let them settle to see if people naturally adapt against others. Also, it isn't possible for everyone to be strong at once.

Actually it is possible for everyone to be viable at once but in order to do that the jungler would need a major overhaul. Right now jungle makes or breaks a game and riot needs to change this in order for the game to be better.

JamareeMay 5, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0QwJWxdE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T04:58:08.346+0000)

Actually it is possible for everyone to be viable at once but in order to do that the jungler would need a major overhaul. Right now jungle makes or breaks a game and riot needs to change this in order for the game to be better.

No, it really isn't. There hasn't been a single video game in history, whether it be moba, or shooter, or fighter, where everyone is viable and strong. You can make everyone powerful with their own niches, but it isn't possible for EVERYONE to be top tier unless everyone works, plays, acts, and looks the exact same.

Soul DealerMay 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No, it really isn't. There hasn't been a single video game in history, whether it be moba, or shooter, or fighter, where everyone is viable and strong. You can make everyone powerful with their own niches, but it isn't possible for EVERYONE to be top tier unless everyone works, plays, acts, and looks the exact same.

Beta overwatch was insanely balanced. Everyone character in the game was viable and usable in any game. So when you say that no video game has ever been balanced your wrong. And league can be balanced but riot has to add solo carry back to the game. Right now one person can lose you the game but one person can’t win you the game. If solo carrying is in the game then every champion would be viable because you can carry on any champ.

JamareeMay 5, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0QwJWxdE,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T05:27:54.361+0000)

Beta overwatch was insanely balanced. Everyone character in the game was viable and usable in any game.

I'm sorry what? No?

Symmetra was trash, Bastion became trash after week one, Torbjorn was trash after week one, in what world was this true? Everything had the feeling of balance because no one knew how to play the game, once metas started forming and characters actually began getting played, it felt to the same concepts of design that every video game does, where people found out what was good, they played that and the other champions fell to the wayside.

So when you say that no video game has ever been balanced your wrong.

No, I'm right, beta Overwatch was only "balanced" because no one knew what the fuck they were doing.

And league can be balanced but riot has to add solo carry back to the game. Right now one person can lose you the game but one person can’t win you the game. If solo carrying is in the game then every champion would be viable because you can carry on any champ.

Supports?

Soul DealerMay 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry what? No?

Symmetra was trash, Bastion became trash after week one, Torbjorn was trash after week one, in what world was this true? Everything had the feeling of balance because no one knew how to play the game, once metas started forming and characters actually began getting played, it felt to the same concepts of design that every video game does, where people found out what was good, they played that and the other champions fell to the wayside.

No, I'm right, beta Overwatch was only "balanced" because no one knew what the fuck they were doing.

Supports?

Carrying on supports is super easy. I have done it. You just have to know what your doing.

JamareeMay 5, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0QwJWxdE,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T06:41:22.700+0000)

Carrying on supports is super easy. I have done it. You just have to know what your doing.

Right now one person can lose you the game but one person can’t win you the game. If solo carrying is in the game then every champion would be viable because you can carry on any champ.

?????????????????????????

DuskDaUmbreonMay 5, 20192 votes

Even moving outside of video games it's not possible to find actual balance. D&D has some classes that are outright stronger than others. Hell, even chess - One of the oldest games in the world that's still played - isn't completely balanced between the two sides, and the only difference between them is who moves first.

IllabetheMay 5, 20191 votes

But..... the difference of vectors in Chess is so infinitesimal that it might as well be defined as "balanced" from the perspective of players.

After all, there are over 32 Trillion possible combinations of moves that can end a Chess game.

I can't possibly do the math in League with 144 champions and a moving playboard with constantly changing skillsets... and items.

But..... they can be far closer to balanced than they are.

Balance comes in many forms. Sometimes it's an asymmetric strength in exchange for an asymmetric weakness. For example, in simpler games, Mages > Warriors > Archers > Mages. The triangulation created balance.

But...... right now.... it seems like certain builds, specific items, and the classes using them are greater than all.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 5, 20191 votes

The thing is, it's not just mage>warrior>archer>mage (Or burst>tank>DPS>burst, in League), because then you throw in subclasses and classes outside that triangle. How does one determine the value of an assassin versus the value of a mage? Where does someone who fits into all three points like a fighter fit in? How about someone who fits none, like an enchanter?

IllabetheMay 5, 20191 votes

Read the context of the comment..... I wasn't even trying to compare league champions to that simple diagram. I said that older games had symmetries like that. And they did. The damage to a piece was the same at its base, but did 30% more to a vulnerable target but 30% less to a strong target. That's how RPG's BEGAN.

** I can't possibly do the math in League with 144 champions and a moving playboard with constantly changing skillsets... and items.**

In other words, League is a lot more complicated than my example, and realistically it is also impossible to PERFECTLY balance. However, I'm pointing out that with human guided computer knowledge, they could get far closer to balance than they are trying. With 144 champions, Hundreds of trillions of movement decisions per game, and some 120 or so different items, calculating balance is impossible. But, you CAN get within the proximity.

Guinsoos's does not create that proximity. Youmuu's post buff does not create that proximity. Champions with easy reset conditions vs champions who have none or difficult ones do not create that proximity. Boots of Mobility in a game without Furor and Homeguard does not create that proximity. Conqueror, Guinsoo's having inbalanced requirement differences between ranged and melee (2 sec vs 8 seconds is NOT balanced) does not create proximity. Spear of Shojin does not create proximity.

You get the idea.

SEKAIMay 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Even moving outside of video games it's not possible to find actual balance. D&D has some classes that are outright stronger than others. Hell, even chess - One of the oldest games in the world that's still played - isn't completely balanced between the two sides, and the only difference between them is who moves first.

Yeah but, Riot doesn't remotely bother with balancing and that's why the tournament play as demonstrated somewhere has a roster of about 11 champ for the vast majority of their picks. The game is SERIOUSLY unbalanced.

We aren't even talking about whether true balance is possible in League, because the game is completely unbalanced to the extreme.

IllabetheMay 5, 20191 votes

Here's what I find hilarious:

V8.2 Stats Attack speed growth reduced to 3.3% from 4%. Condemn Condemn NEW EFFECT: Now draws nearby minion aggro when targeting an enemy champion. Final Hour Final Hour Bonus attack damage reduced to 20 / 30 / 40 from 30 / 50 / 70.

(HUGE Nerf; Lowest AD it's ever had)

Literally the only buff to her since then was her 50% Q cooldown reduction on Ult, which has its own restrictions, because every time she Q's she disengages auto attack and has to be prompted manually to auto attack again.

item 3124 was literally the only reason she resurfaced.

boricCentaur1May 5, 20191 votes

Sooooooo you say riot keeps some champs strong but then you talk about how vayne was bad at the start of the season as your example of riot doing this WTF that makes no sense you just basically said why does riot balance the game.

No you did not list lee, thresh, ez or any other champion that is always good YOU LIST A CHAMPION THAT WAS BAD THAT HAD TO GET BUFFED TO BE GOOD.

Also popular champions like yas have can't be bad since if there bad it ruins that game because a shit load of people are playing a bad champion.