50 Hp...

GigglesO·Jan 26, 2017·97 votes·3,747 views

Is honestly a pretty shitty tier 3 mastery... anyone else think that veteran scars should be reworked?

57 Comments

Reaper SorakaJan 26, 201710 votes

Well I think they used to have a max HP% bonus mastery... they ended up removing it because only a few champions could get more than like 50 health out of it, and by the time in the game they did 50 health was nothing.

WoonStruckJan 26, 201740 votes

You got 80 HP from it if you had just 2000.

Most tanks get between 3500 and 4000.

They changed the mastery to benefit ADCs. That's it.

Funny part is that not even ADCs took it for 50 HP.

Pierce The VealJan 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You got 80 HP from it if you had just 2000.

Most tanks get between 3500 and 4000.

They changed the mastery to benefit ADCs. That's it.

Funny part is that not even ADCs took it for 50 HP.

This

doiminat0r3600Jan 27, 20174 votes

When people still post "This" as a legitimate comment.

TwinkieProJan 27, 20174 votes

Its literally a verbal upvote. Click the up arrow and move on lol

Pierce The VealJan 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Its literally a verbal upvote. Click the up arrow and move on lol

This this

Pierce The VealJan 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

When people still post "This" as a legitimate comment.

This.

ShaolinToiletJan 27, 20172 votes

ADCs do use the mastery. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=doublelift

LankPantsJan 26, 20176 votes

The problem I have is that it's outclassed by Runic Armour on literally everyone. Just with active jungle healing from 3xpot+2xsmite you restore about 60 extra HP from Runic Armour. That's before considering the extra regen from passive sources, generally base HP regen and recovery. For a champ with around 9 HP/5 and 2 extra from Runic Armour over a 2 minute clear we're talking about an extra 21 HP on top of the 60, I personally also run Feast which procs 4 times in that jg clear for an extra 6 HP, so all up Runic Armour gives me around 87 HP per clear, 37 better than Vet Scars before sustain from jungle item, which from experience seems to push this number towards 150 better than Vet Scars.

The two masteries are just incomparable.

RocketRelmJan 26, 20173 votes

Even on ADCs the runic armor is better in most cases, because "heals and shields on you" includes what your support gives you, and Lifesteal. So any time you have a Soraka, or a Sona, or even a Lulu.

ShaolinToiletJan 27, 20171 votes

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=doublelift

Pierce The VealJan 26, 20175 votes

PERCENT HEALTH PLEASE!

CHO'GATH IS BEGGING YOU!

AmazoXJan 27, 20171 votes

Ordering you mean or else we'll b--nom nom nom

Pierce The VealJan 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ordering you mean or else we'll b--nom nom nom

Something something infinite stacks something something nom nom.

FalconPawwwwnchJan 26, 20175 votes

If they didn't want it to be "abused by tanks only" then they should've just changed to to health/level...

50 is trash

1.6/3.2/4.8/6.4/8 health/lvl

GigglesOJan 26, 20174 votes

{quoted}

If they didn't want it to be "abused by tanks only" then they should've just changed to to health/level...

50 is trash

1.6/3.2/4.8/6.4/8 health/lvl

You could even just swap it for something further up and have it actually be meaningful... Legendary armor should actually be a tier 3 since it only gives 15 armor and MR, only if there are 5 enemies... its really quite shitty as well...

GayFluffyUnicornJan 27, 20171 votes

It's shitty because you just can't afford to not take slow resist and tenacity on tanks/melees in general. League has way too much CC and especially slows to not take it for a measily amount of armor and MR.

6SfoolJan 26, 20174 votes

I was disappointed when they changed it originally. There is absolutely no reason to get that mastery, ever.

Phyuq YiuJan 26, 20173 votes

Yeah, buff it. Put in on par with them dope ass damage masteries. Move it down so you have to fully comit to resolve and give like 50+5% max HP. Seriously, The other masteries are all +5% damage +5% more damage, touch people to let allies do 3% more damage. Alone and use spells, 2% and 2% more and more damage wowow.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 27, 20171 votes

Tree 3 compared with the other two is just straight up bullshit. all you get is: 2 dmg reduction from AA and minons/monster... wow. A little bit armor/mr, a bit more armor and mr. Only a handful of amounts. It would be equal when every percent dmg buff would give something like 2,5 more AD or Ap.

TWITCHTV ERONATEJan 26, 20173 votes

it's useless, but it makes me feel safer in lane to be honest The difference between like 580 hp earlygame and 630 is pretty huge

Raven RedeemedJan 26, 20173 votes

I think it's fine if you really want that early game power, but other than that it's not of much use. Maybe the amount of health you get should scale with your level?

ArcticblastJan 26, 20172 votes

A little extra scaling health (not even a lot, maybe just like 40 + 5/lvl total) would go pretty far in making it feel better, but Runic Armor is just so much better on a lot of champions once mid game rolls around right now. 50 extra HP is really nice in bot lane though, early trades are very important and the extra health makes it much easier to survive.

JefftiffyJan 27, 20173 votes

I think it should be changed to like 5 per rank + .5% max hp per rank. At max rank it would give 25 + 2.5%. Most tanks would get about 125 hp from it full build. At worst it would be 75 at max rank. Still better, but it helps force it be for tanks or late game oriented.

SNSD SunnnyJan 26, 20172 votes

how is that a shitty mastery, if you could take it 5x times you would have 250 bonus hp early game which is big. I never go that tree but 50 hp is a lot early game.

GigglesOJan 26, 201729 votes

[{quoted}](name=SNSD Sunnny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0F75ABEP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-26T06:45:42.370+0000)

how is that a shitty mastery, if you could take it 5x times you would have 250 bonus hp early game which is big. I never go that tree but 50 hp is a lot early game.

its 10 x 5 for 50...

WoonStruckJan 26, 201718 votes

Its a shitty mastery.

Even people without heals and shields take Runic Armor over the 50 HP.

Before you could get 100-160 HP from it easily.

SNSD SunnnyJan 26, 20173 votes

it's an early game mastery that increases your survivability at level 1 by 10%, runic armor is useless early.

LankPantsJan 26, 201714 votes

No it's not. Just the HP you get back from 3 HP pots is 36 extra with Runic Armour. Combined with the extra sustain from Smite, the extra 2HP/5 from the first tier, jungle item sustain and base HP regen you regenerate more than 50 HP easily.

The reason why I talk about junglers is because literally every lane tank has some sort of shield or regeneration which makes them not even look twice at this shitty mastery.

SNSD SunnnyJan 26, 20173 votes

that's literally like saying dark seal is ALWAYS better than dorans ring since dorans ring only gives "60" hp but dark seal will give you like what, an extra 200+ on potions? the extra hp is to help you survive burst, not sustain, and 36 extra hp isn't even more than 50. early game its literally increasing your hp by 10%, it can be the difference between winning and losing a fight considering its more than 1 auto attack difference. by your logic, hp regen items are much stronger than straight up hp items because over a long time hp regen items help you sustain longer.

Pierce The VealJan 26, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=SNSD Sunnny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0F75ABEP,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-26T16:57:42.055+0000)

that's literally like saying dark seal is ALWAYS better than dorans ring since dorans ring only gives "60" hp but dark seal will give you like what, an extra 200+ on potions? the extra hp is to help you survive burst, not sustain, and 36 extra hp isn't even more than 50. early game its literally increasing your hp by 10%, it can be the difference between winning and losing a fight considering its more than 1 auto attack difference. by your logic, hp regen items are much stronger than straight up hp items because over a long time hp regen items help you sustain longer.

Dark seal doesn't regen mana on unit kill.

Mostro GalloJan 27, 20172 votes

give as much AP

what?

Pierce The VealJan 27, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mostro Gallo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0F75ABEP,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-27T00:31:34.524+0000)

what?

Oh they changed it or something, I remember it having less AP my bad.

LankPantsJan 27, 20171 votes

that's literally like saying dark seal is ALWAYS better than dorans ring since dorans ring only gives "60" hp but dark seal will give you like what, an extra 200+ on potions?

No it's not, because Dark Seal and D-Ring have other factors. Doran's Ring gives mana regen to the Dark Seal's flat mana, D-Ring gives mana on kill as well so it overall gives more mana while Dark Seal gives more HP and has more potential for snowball.

the extra hp is to help you survive burst, not sustain, and 36 extra hp isn't even more than 50.

Except you're not just looking at HP pots, there's other factors too. Runic Armour also synergieses with your HP regen, Smite healing, Smite items, Red buff, CotC, champion specific healing and shielding, ally specific healing and shielding and Ocean Drakes. Runic Armour is strong because it synergises with everything you do to heal. It even gets you off spawn fractionally quicker if you don't care about mana.

I'm mostly going to talk about junglers here, because the simple fact is that if you're playing Poppy, Naut, Maokai, Taric, ect. any champion like this there is no argument for Vet Scars, Runic Armour is just better. The majority of top tanks and support tanks have healling and shielding.

In order for Runic Armour to be better in the early game you need to gain 625 HP before Runic Armour through healling and shielding. Potions already make up for 450 HP, so the rest of your healing simply has to be more than 225. Smite heals for 70+(10%) HP, This is a 145HP heal on average between first and second use, so 290 total, you can knock 10 off that number because Vet Scars does increase the heal, so 280 advantage. That puts RA at +55. Then you can factor in HP/5, over the course of my clear with regenerator I average to 11HP/5, over a 2 minute clear that's an extra 264HP, so we're at +319. I also heal off of my Machete, which I'm using because it's easier to calc for. It heals for an average 9 per AA. Over the course of a clear you AA about 80 times, so you gain back an extra 720 HP from that. So our RA caps out at 1039 over the amount it needs to be better than Vet Scars, a raw amount of healing of 1664. At 1664 over the course of a jg clear you heal for an additional 133 HP, almost triple Vet Scars. This is for Sej or Amumu, a champ with no other synergy.

As for burst protection in the early game, I'll think about that next time blue buff crits me for 500.

GigglesOJan 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

As for burst protection in the early game, I'll think about that next time blue buff crits me for 500.

bwhahahahahahaha, this is great. Honestly the rest of your post with lots of examples of how runic armor was better really was top notch, but this is just the icing on the cake... also, how is 50 hp honestly going to stop something that kills you from 150%... deals enough damge to deal 150% of your (full) hp...

morris1Jan 26, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=SNSD Sunnny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0F75ABEP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-26T06:45:42.370+0000)

if you could take it 5x times you would have 250 bonus hp

What's the point of this statement lol.

chubs1224Jan 26, 20174 votes

He thought that each level of it was 50 hp not 10 hp

nm1010Jan 26, 20172 votes

Its pretty good for people that go 0/18/12 mid for summoner spell cdr Morgana Malzahar I use it on personally.

RocketRelmJan 26, 20174 votes

eyebrow raise

Speaking as a Morgana Mid player… you realize that Morgana has inbuilt spell vamp, right? I'm going 0/18/12 on her too, but Runic Armor is better in the pre-6 because Doran+2Pot start, and better at 6+ because by that point the benefit on spell vamp alone outweighs the 50 base hp.

nm1010Jan 26, 20172 votes

I would rather have a better all in 90% of the time, if I am against xerath is about the only time I took better spell vamp. Then again I always did a lot of stuff different then other Morgana mid players, which is why I had a 67% win rate on her (probably higher if you discredit the few flex queue I did at the end of the season).

Edit: To clarify even more to get 50 hp in a fight with Morgana's spell vamp you would need to do ~1000 damage post level 7 (unless you hit a q which does give single target spell vamp healing). Even then the mastery makes it 54 hp, this means you are getting an extra 4 hp in combat per 1000 damage...

To go even further Morgana averages ~21,000 damage dealt to champions per game, this means you are averaging about 84 hp per game from that mastery (excluding the increased passive healing which gives you about 200 hp over the course of a 30 minute game). Tbh the more I look at the math the worse that mastery looks on Morgana, even factoring in the healing from minions is about an extra 250 hp, which is honestly next to nothing too. I guess bigger black shield isn't horrible.

PlanetWarwickJan 26, 20172 votes

This fizz took 1 point is vet scars and lived with under 10 hp 3 times in one fucking game

AmazoXJan 27, 20171 votes

[zombie-brand-clap]

salty testiJan 27, 20172 votes

[deleted]

GigglesOJan 27, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=salty testi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0F75ABEP,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2017-01-27T05:04:19.374+0000)

because adcs would rather have the opposing 5% damage to targets with less than 50% HP

resolve is shit, they should improve it and maybe that can help curb damage slightly

I actually really miss having 30 point trees where you had to invest heavily into one tree to get anything.

DaNinadJan 26, 20171 votes

The spellvamp mastery is the only form of spell vamp right? Or does hextech gunblade do something?

GigglesOJan 26, 20173 votes

{quoted}

The spellvamp mastery is the only form of spell vamp right? Or does hextech gunblade do something?

Hextech gunblade still is "spellvamp" they just call it omnivamp because HtGB still gives life steal too.

RozzetaJan 27, 20171 votes

50HP is a good lvl 1 boost for low HP champions, mostly supports. Still, most supports have some sort of self healing or shielding, making veteran's scars obsolete against it's counterpart.

Tails9016Jan 27, 20171 votes

Don't most /5 point masteries end up doing almost nothing late game? Aside from, say, Runic armor that increases life steal, shielding etc. or the armor/mag penetration ones. They help a bit.

LankPantsJan 27, 20171 votes

Sorcery, Vampirism, Battering Blows, Piercing Thoughts, Merciless, Precision, Intelligence, Runic Armour and Swiftness all scale well into the late game. That's about half of all 5 point masteries.

Runic Armour outscaling Vet Scars if Vet Scars was actually better wouldn't be a problem, the thing is Runic Armour starts the game significantly stronger then scales up from there.