I am beyond Sick of Assassins and their kits.

HandheldBrandon··3 votes·786 views

Take fizz's E for example.

Playful/Trickster: Breaks all targeting except tethers. Can dodge abilities Is a 2 part dash Also has a 60% slow if he doesn't use the second part 270 magic damage at max rank with a .7 percent scaling Can jump over terrain

Thats just his E.

Thats not even counting his other abilities which also scale absurdly high all with AP and some with AD and not considering the 20 percent damage increase from his ult.

Take Zed as another example

Passive percent magic damage health shred on passive. 100 percent ad scaling shuriken which has reduced scaling on multiple Shuriken hits with the possibility of hitting 3 times. Creates a shadow which allows Zed to throw out secondary projectiles or have 2 slows that stack and dash to it. Also gives him 25% bonus AD at max rank. AOE Slow with the possibility of a 60 percent slow and has a .8 percent scaling.

Now lets look at his ult.

Dodges abilities and breaks targeting. 100 percent AD scaling Delayed Secondary activation which increases with damage based on how much damage Zed did while the death mark was activated Can be dashed too at any range allowing Zed to do as much damage as he wants and then retreat to complete safety. Allows for a second shadow allowing Zed to have 3 shurikens total or 3 AOE slows with a max of 60% percent slow.

Thats just 2 examples

Fizz's E is almost as good as Zeds entire kit and Zeds kit is highly abusive in allowing him to completely bully his enemies with no chance of retaliation with his incredibly high scalings and base damage and CC combined with his execute style passive and his delayed burst damage/dash ultimate.

You could literally remove the slows from Zed and reduce all of his abilities base damages and keep his high scaling and his Kit would STILL be incredibly good.

You could remove the slow and invul and target breaking and reduce the base damages all across the board on Fizz and HIS KIT WOULD STILL BE RETARDEDLY POWERFUL

Hell you could remove the slow from Fizz's Ultimate and the 20 percent increased magic damage on his ult AND HE WOULD STILL PROBABLY WRECK FACE

When i think of an Assassin in league of legends i think of an early game high damage squishy murderer who falls off late game or becomes useless if they can't get kills. Instead in League of Legends Assassin means High Damage, High scaling, Hyper mobility, Hyper Burst champions who snowball into late game and also bring some decently powerful CC.

You know how many slows Fizz has?

2

One 60 percent slow and one 70 percent slow.

Know how many slows Zed has?

1

Know how many slows he can potentially have?

2

A 40 percent or a 60 percent slow depending on if Zed overlaps his slows.

I'm sorry but Assassins in their current incarnation need to go there is no balancing them without completely gutting them to the point where Assassins will die off. I remember old Leblanc where no one thought she was a problem because she fell off incredibly hard late game almost to the point where she was considered as a waste of a spot. The only way to get past that was to do well and constantly gank other lanes to help achieve that early game kill power spike. Yeah it sucked that Leblanc sucked late game but you know what it was balanced around the fact that she was an insanely high damage early game burster and her level 6 was to be feared in all lanes.

Now we have Assassins that have no such weakness.

/end rant/rage

TL : DR Read the thread.

15 Comments

DestructoDave4 votes

I have an issue with their design philosophy. Most Assassins are fairly safe, wave clear and farm well, and are low risk high reward. The fact they can generally gib just about any squishy they click on by spamming their buttons like a mad man, and its up to the squishy to out play them or die, its kind of annoying that they generally have very strong wave clear, laning, and escapes.

Just look at Zed. Do I out play Zeds? I do. But it takes far more work and knowledge for me to deal with him, than for him to randomly wreck people by hitting R and spamming all his buttons doing his best Ryze impersonation, all while being one of the easiest champions in the game to farm, poke, lane with, and escape just about anything.

The problem is the low risk, high reward. There ought to be a risk associated with picking a champ who can kill other players in the blink of an eye, and most of the time, there isn't. You ought to suffer SOMETHING. Poor farming, poor wave clear, poor laning, something, to be able to hit R on CD and generally kill people with little work involved.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

Thanks for the good post and i agree although i see it differently.

My problem is that Assassins on top of having high damage/low cooldowns/high mobility is that they also have some utility/CC.

Im sorry but you can't give a champ three highly sought after stats and then throw in utility for shiggles. I don't mind Leblanc because she has to utilize her Utility to successfully kill her target. Zed/Fizz don't have to its just added into their kits "Just because" If you removed the slows from those 2 champions i guarantee you they would still be 100 percent perfectly fine and would still wreck a ton of face just because their kits have that much power in them to begin with.

DestructoDave2 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for the good post and i agree although i see it differently.

My problem is that Assassins on top of having high damage/low cooldowns/high mobility is that they also have some utility/CC.

Im sorry but you can't give a champ three highly sought after stats and then throw in utility for shiggles. I don't mind Leblanc because she has to utilize her Utility to successfully kill her target. Zed/Fizz don't have to its just added into their kits "Just because" If you removed the slows from those 2 champions i guarantee you they would still be 100 percent perfectly fine and would still wreck a ton of face just because their kits have that much power in them to begin with.

That too, but thats just the design philosophy now. Look at Kalista. Does she really need a slow with all that mobility? I'm sure she would be more than fine without being able to slow people.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

I actually do think she needs the slow simply because her entire kit is literally based around her mobility.

Despite what most people seem to think people do catch Kalista and force a flash out of her. She's just designed to be a hassle to those who try and chase her just like singed.

But this is not about Kalista this is about assassins and how in their current incarnation they do more harm than good.

SouL1ess1 votes

who try and chase her just like singed.

except that if you don't actively try to kill Kalista she will kill your team from range.

If you don't chase singed, nothing really happens, even though he can bulldoze into your team and you will be forced to take his Q damage when he walks past you with his superior MS; if you don't chase Kalista, since she's an actual ADC (who you suggested not to try and take down) she will take the opportunity to wipe the ground with your team.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

{quoted}

except that if you don't actively try to kill Kalista she will kill your team from range.

If you don't chase singed, nothing really happens, even though he can bulldoze into your team and you will be forced to take his Q damage when he walks past you with his superior MS; if you don't chase Kalista, since she's an actual ADC (who you suggested not to try and take down) she will take the opportunity to wipe the ground with your team.

You act as if Kalista is the only ADC in the game that can kill you from range.

She is susceptible to CC as well and Hard CC ruins her day and if her soul bound is not around her she loses a full ability (an ultimate at that) and a huge HUGE part of her damage (W passive proc).

SouL1ess1 votes

She is susceptible to CC as well and Hard CC ruins her day

So she shares the same weakness as every other ADC (and assassin) in the game except that if she dodges a CC (mostly skillshots) with her Q + passive, she can proceed to ignore (or get ignored, since you said not to chase Kalista when she is not CC'd) your team while wiping the ground with your team.

Kalista isn't that strong because she lacks the tools of a real ADC (W and R are ally-based and are unreliable for the Kalista player herself) and I don't think the other aspects of her kit demands nerfing, but really, why does her passive exist in the first place (not to mention her passive can be activated with her Q)?

DestructoDave1 votes

{quoted}

I actually do think she needs the slow simply because her entire kit is literally based around her mobility.

Despite what most people seem to think people do catch Kalista and force a flash out of her. She's just designed to be a hassle to those who try and chase her just like singed.

But this is not about Kalista this is about assassins and how in their current incarnation they do more harm than good.

Every ADC gets chased; just every other ADC actually takes skill to do max damage while kiting, while you can just spam attack move backwards and kite as good as a challenger player on Kalista. You never even have to click on the target ever again, or alternate clicks; just spam attack move in the opposite direction until your finger falls off, her passive procs automatically, you look like doublelift.

I fail to see how Kalista getting chased is any different than the other ADCs getting run down every game, but hey if you believe its different then so be it.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Katarina has difficulty farming (the buff to her attack frame has helped), subpar wave clear, and needs to get the kill in order get the reset she needs on shunpo for her disengage, which also requires a ward or unit nearby for her to dash to. If she fails to kill the target in her rotation, she's screwed.

She is, in my eyes, one of the more balanced assassins, but she is also the one people cry about the most, and i'm sick of it.

Meanwhile Zed can have insane burst, free wallhops, and 700 damage on his autoattacks.

Leblanc gets ridiculous mobility and the ability to blow up people before they can react.

Riven is the same as LeBlanc, except she doesn't have mana problems. LeeSin can dedicate 75% of his build to tank items and bring immense utility to his team, while still being able to assassinate like a professional.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

I'm not going to count Lee Sin or Riven since Lee sin is just good at everything and Riven is played more as a fighter type.

Katarina has 3 AOE moves 2 which are actively used for farming and one that requires champions. Shes also one of the hardest snowballing Assassin mages in THE game. Period. A fed kat early is usually going to end badly for the opposite team. She also has one of the safest and a decently low cooldown blink on her E.

Shes also extremely easy to use making her power far more than it seems through ease of use.

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

lmao I hope you realize, that your post is really only about zed, not the rest of the assassins. Zed is the only one who has the fairly safe, wave clear, farm well, and low risk high reward that you are talking about.

SouL1ess1 votes

Thats not even counting his other abilities which also scale absurdly high all with AP and some with AD and not considering the 20 percent damage increase from his ult.

Urchin strike base damage: 130 + 0.3*AP

Seastone Trident base damage with active: 110 + 0.4*AP

This is even lower than Brand's skill damages (even less than Brand's E), whose skills have INTENTIONALLY low damage due to his passive.

Seriously? Only his ult is fitting for damage, but it can be countered by QSS, effectively making Fizz a pointless assassin.

Hell you could remove the slow from Fizz's Ultimate and the 20 percent increased magic damage on his ult AND HE WOULD STILL PROBABLY WRECK FACE

You didn't do the math. Fizz without his ultimate giving 20% increased damage would be retiring from the assassin roster entirely, since he would have subpar base damage AND subpar scaling compared to other assassins (and some mages) even after he buys lich bane.

You could remove the slow and invul and target breaking and reduce the base damages all across the board on Fizz and HIS KIT WOULD STILL BE RETARDEDLY POWERFUL

How? Did you not play Fizz when his E didn't actually give invulerability? He was actually unplayable.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

Those two examples are kind of biased. One is arguably the best assassin in the game, and the other one used to be.

If you take someone like Talon Diana, and Rengar, their escapes are quite unreliable. Two can be countered by pink wards, and the other one doesn't actually have a real escape, and has to rely on tankiness to hope she can survive.

They're what I feel like an assassin should be, each with their own identities. Talon has strong AoE, Diana has good damage combined with tank (so to be honest she's more of a Jax-esque bruiser than an assassin), and Rengar has the unique mechanic of his passive. They have their own individual weaknesses (namely lack of reliable escapes).

Zed, on the other hand, is the pinnacle of an overloaded assassin. He is manaless, good waveclear and escapes. He can clear better than most mages afer the mana regen nerfs. It just isn't justified to say that all assassins are unhealthy based on one of the strongest picks, even if he is seen a lot more often.

Raptamei1 votes

Yeah, except AP Fizz is no longer viable and people build him AD bruiser because his kit sucks now.

SolusInCadere1 votes

Isn't this change similar to what happened to ADCs no too recently? Suddenly they became lane bullies AND scaled well into late game. They suddenly obtained mobility to make it harder for them to kill, became bursty, or good Duelists. The game moved on.

Let playstyles balance things out, for now. If something comes around that is completely broken, let's bring out the nerf hammer. Now to decide if Kalista and Zed are broken:

Kalista's passive is really strong, but she lacks conventional, damage oriented steroids avalible to most ADCs, and high damaging poke spells for the others (her Q is less than consistent poke). She also has two effects which rely on an ally not being an idiot

Zed has a massive learning curve in order to fully use, his mobility relies on forethought on where to place his shadows, which also need to be in a place to land skill shots. And his ult goes away with QQS. Counter build, people. Counter build.

Yes, these chanpions are powerful, but they are not overloaded.

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