Mage Update: A Few Thoughts on Malzahar

SociopathFriend··6 votes·1,185 views

Malzahar- the Prophet of the Void- is up for a bit of Riot tinkering in the immobile mage update. Personally I think Malzahar is okay the way he is but I admit to being curious to what Riot is going to do to him. That said, I thought I'd post a few ideas of my own to see how people would receive them.

Firstly, what is Malzahar's identity? For me- he's an example of inevitability. Just as the Void will eventually engulf Runeterra- Malzahar will inevitably slay you. He uses the power of the void to bring you to your knees while you can't help but be destroyed. I find this to be a beautiful mirror to his lore and how he believes nothing can escape the void.

But while I personally like Mage-Malzahar more, others are very fond of the voidlings (I have dubbed mine Vincent) so I'll try to think of ways to play with that as well. He's only being updated, not reworked, so I'll be attempting to keep his abilities similar to how they already are. I'm no Challenger Malz main- I'm just a dude who likes him the best out of all the champions.

Innate- Summon Voidling. Ah the Voidlings, I can't pretend I'm not slightly confused about this- no Void creature has ever indicated it really likes being controlled. At best Kog'Maw has some sort of attraction to Malz but otherwise the Void denizens have been nothing less than maniacal death machines of various kinds. I suppose it IS true that Malzahar seems to use the power of the void, so controlling them isn't odd for him, but I think it's quite odd for them. However- the people have spoken- in a horrible impersonation of Christopher Walken "I've gotta have more voidlings!" My proposal would be to limit the Voidlings, instead of growing and gaining frenzy- leave them in the small stage. However, the smaller voidlings can scale with both AP and AD in order to be relevant for both AD and AP Malzahar. Also they might need some MS nerfs if this entire kit were to be used. Now don't worry- our little friends will be still be getting some perks later on. It IS possible the AD and AP scaling might be too far, in fact, if this entire kit was pushed through it undoubtedly WOULD be too far. But it's just an idea.

Q- Call of the Void A sweeping AoE silence? Hells yeah- this is probably the unsung hero of many a game- the power to stop abilities from multiple champions for that long is amazingly useful in teamfights. Since the delay and way this spell is used is fairly unique already- I'm not advocating anything be done to this ability. However, we're pulling the voidlings into the spotlight, so somewhere there's going to be some power redistribution. Perhaps if a voidling is hit by this energy they could gain those armor defenses they get via growing normally now.

W- Null Zone Here would be the most radical change I had in mind. First of all- no more maximum health damage. Give it some flat AP damage instead- maybe make it a bit larger to help shift some power. "Dude, that's a massive nerf!" Aye, it is- but that is because I'm going to be giving some more power to the voidlings. While a voidling in on the Null Zone, I would suggest they gain attack speed similar to frenzy. Now, for those %HP diehards I have a solution- if a voidling attacks an enemy IN the zone AND afflicted with visions- the magical damage would instead be %health-based.

E- Malefic Visions I'm gonna be honest, I have no changes in mind for this ability- throwing space aids around is THE greatest thing about Malzahar in my mind and I wouldn't change it. However, if we want our new emphasis on voidlings to keep going, I'd suggest voidlings proc extra magic damage when attacking targets that have visions on them. This makes the visions even more important than they previously were Additionally, another possible alteration would be for the visions to gain damage as they kill minions, making that "inevitable" theme greater as the threat looms closer and closer; obviously they would have to start off weaker then.

R- Nether Grasp A suppression is a terrible thing to waste- and they're so rare that I hope Malz is allowed to keep his. I've always wanted a full suppression team- Malz mid, Urgot adc, Skarner/Warwick in top and jungle- alas- there's no suppression support (Unless I count Kench, and come to think of it, I think I might). It's the biggest and baddest CC the game has to offer- which is why each champion who has it has a unique way of using it and playing (Exempting Warwick, who is just run and click). Keep the suppression, number-crunch the damage, and make it so the Nether Grasp really is the ultimate call to war- when ulting have nearby voidlings jump Rengar-style to the enemy champion. Is Malzahar a leader? Then watch him command the voidlings to rip his opponent apart!

So in summary: Voidlings would be weaker on their own, but proper ability use will skyrocket their potential. Abilities are still mostly the same in their basic use but will have to be weakened to allow the voidlings to shine.

I guess leave a comment or like if you want. Posting on the boards isn't something I do often.

15 Comments

Kathash3 votes

Good points. I main Malz as well and think some of this would be cool.

Passive - The minions being permanent would be cool but maybe keep the growth after a few seconds just so that they start out week but if they survive the initial they get some bonus health to survive longer, but not the frenzy (keeping it on the W like you suggested sounds cool). Though i think the AP/AD should stay split. He would be too OP if his minions AND his abilities both benefited from AP.

Q - It is pretty good as is, being trick to land and mobile champs can dodge it and I wouldn't want to waste mana just to buff my minions (since Malz is already mana hungry) so maybe keep it as is but at center it kinda "pops" for a little extra to those unlucky enough to be cought?

W - I like the frenzy idea and would like the larger AOE range you suggested (always jealous of Nasus for his huge area) but the %HP damage is like a calling card. It is what makes him viable as top against tanks. Without it, he would get bullied hard. Not to mention they already nurfed the numbers a little while back.

E - Like you said it is already good. Although I wouldn't mind a jump range increase. Too many times I've seen it jump to a minion, then that minion decides to run towards me or my caster minions and I miss the whole back row. The bonus damage from minions would be cool.

R - As you said, being one of the few suppressors is awesome, at the drawback of being an easy target to everyone else. Maybe if they worked it so that he had bonus MR and Armor for the duration? Easy enough for delayed knock-ups to kill it early anyways. That and QSS.

SociopathFriend2 votes

Passive- He'd probably be alright if his minions benefited from both AD and AP scaling. It's not a bad thing for a Mage's kit to scale with AP across the board. Honestly figuring out the voidlings is one of the harder parts of the kit. I wasn't planning on them being permanent though- you'd still have the regular summoning method of 4 spells.

Q- Oh it's still meant to hit the enemy, but it has a fairly decent AoE so if you can land it on the enemy and the voidlings you'll be set up pretty well. Also, spamming it on your minions would be something an AD Malzahar would love.

W- While I agree the %health is important, it's been stated numerous times on the big 6 update thread that the main abilities people identify Malzahar with are the Visions and Ultimate. Those are the two that in theory deserve the least changes. It's purpose is to be a tank-shredder, giving voidlings better DPS falls exactly in line with doing that. Especially since the target is likely to have the visions on them as well.

E- I did ask a Red a while back if Malz could get a "jump" indicator like Nami or Brand, haven't heard anything back about it though. If you'd like we could have a double interaction where if a Voidling is attacking a Vision-debuffed target ON the Null Zone the extra damage would be %health based.

R- Malz probably shouldn't become tankier when using it- that's what Urgot does. Suppression is rare because you need potent drawbacks into how it's used. Urgot gets tanky at the expense of putting himself right near the enemy. Warwick lifesteals but can't move at all. Skarner drags them around but first he has to get close. Malzahar does the most damage but also roots himself like Warwick.

abadhaiku2 votes

Why not make the w flat damage, but voidlings in the zone get % max health magic damage on hit? Then he can still deal some good damage to tanks and bruisers, but it requires voidlings and also requires the voidlings be in the zone. It makes it more important for malz to get someone immobilized in the center.

SociopathFriend1 votes

Huh, thought I mentioned that- a possibility would be an interacting with the Null Zone and Visions so that voidlings will only do %HP damage while attacking a target afflicted with both. Thanks for pointing that out- I must've removed it.

abadhaiku2 votes

What about changing his w effect completely; after the zone ends every minion that died in the zone becomes a voidling. It could do flat damage, and champions that die in the zone become a siege like voidling. This would introduce a bit of interaction; malz can focus down minions for a swarm of voidlings, but would not trade for this time and would be vulnerable. It also rewards a full combo on a champion by giving you more pushing power. These changes would help malz become more of a push/siege mage while also allowing him to set up for a duel where he has a horde of voidlings.

SociopathFriend1 votes

While an interesting idea- thematically I don't see how it fits. Malzahar doesn't turn things into voidlings- he summons them from the void.

Also I'm pretty sure that would be incredibly unhealthy- think about it- not only do you have the enemy wave pushing up and taking on your tower- Malz would be able to turn your entire wave against you as well. One of the big reasons Riot plays carefully with minions is that they don't want that sort of safety and power to be so easily abused.

abadhaiku2 votes

Also malz main. Why not make the voidlings grow per minion they kill? Then the longer they stick around the stronger they are, and having multiple ones will make it hard to have a totally monstrous one. Or what about causing his q to makes the voidlings bigger? Malz is mana hungry, but it makes some choice and rewards you for landing a q on voidlings and enemies

SociopathFriend1 votes

The armor buff is what the size difference means, that was actually the intent behind it.

qetzel2 votes

This still leaves him much the same as he is now. You need to remember why they are reworking him Healthy Cohesive Distinct.

Your changes help with the cohesive part, but they seem to ignore the other two. He doesn't look any more distinct (from a strategic point of view) or any healthier (you haven't added new ways to play around him or to let him play around his opponent).

They are good ideas - and I bet a lot of Malz players would like to see some of the used - but they don't do what the rework should.

SociopathFriend2 votes

Thanks for the feedback.

He doesn't look any more distinct

Honestly that's because Malzahar is already a very distinct champion in my eyes. "Distinct" is for champions like Vel'Koz who are just "Generic poke mage 101" and are very bland in what they do. By contrast almost all of Malzahar's kit is quite distinct in that few champions have anything like it.

Who else has an AoE silence? Blitzcrank Chogath Fiddlesticks Soraka And next to those 4, Malzahar's is by far the most... complex? 3 are just "throw down AoE" and the other is a point-and-click. With a delay and an odd hitbox and casting style it is a very distinct ability compared to the others.

Who else has an ability that bounces like the visions? Brand Fiddlesticks Katarina MasterYi MissFortune Ryze Sivir Nami Jhin too And out of all of these bounces- only Malzahar's requires his target to die to spread- and only 2 or 3 of them have anything added to the bounce besides just a repeat of the effect. (For example, MF triggers her passive with her bounce shot and Malzahar triggers his voidlings to specifically attack that target and gets mana back, making them just slightly more complex)

Who else gets a suppression? Warwick Urgot Skarner Interestingly, two of those champions are incredibly distinct in playstyle (Skarner and Urgot) specifically because of how they work with the suppression. Having a suppression at all makes the ability distinct- Malzahar's fits with his kit is all. It's made to hold the enemy in your killzone and let your various damages have at them.

The only "bland" ability he has is his W, which is what I tried making the greatest changes to. A Red admitted Malzahar's visions and ultimate are his most iconic features- so I tried keeping them close to what they are now. I admit this was a personal choice but think about it- that's what the champion changes are. Sure, they have a team that goes over them and comes to a consensus, but at the same time it's still going to be an idea of "Yeah, I think this would work out best". I tried putting myself in Riot's shoes "Alright, these are the abilities people love and identify this champion with- I need to keep those similar to how they are" but at the same time "These abilities lack counterplay and need to be updated to be more fair and fun to use".

or any healthier

As for healthy, as I said, a Red pointed out his visions and ultimate are his most iconic abilities and they probably wouldn't be changed much if at all- add that comment to the others that point out that the update isn't going to entirely rework the champions and I don't think Malzahar's level of health is going to be changed all that much to begin with.

but they don't do what the rework should.

Remember the ADC and Juggernaut updates? Most of the ADCs only got a little tinkering with how their abilities work and Garen/Darius mostly just had altered ultimates and tinkering with how some abilities functioned. So I followed that logic, update, not a rework- and I used what I viewed as his core attributes- inevitable death if you play wrong against him. He's still going to excel at 1v1 combat and if anyone with CC pops up for a 2v1 you're going to be destroyed. I technically **am ** adding a bit more health in that I'm redistributing power to the voidlings, making E+R deaths harder to pull off.

Thanks for the feedback again.

abadhaiku2 votes

His W is his only real "meh" ability. You throw it out just to add some damage to the combo. His other abilities require more thought and planning to use. Throw out e on a tank and your voidlings do nothing. Ult at the wrong time and you are dead or wasted the ult. Q has a silence and a lot of damage but you need to be good at landing it because it gives time to dodge and is a wall-ish shot. I agree focusing on making the w and voidlings is the right way to go; they are the two things I just don't care about with malz outside of adding to my damage.

Stevev452 votes

{quoted}

This still leaves him much the same as he is now. You need to remember why they are reworking him Healthy Cohesive Distinct.

Your changes help with the cohesive part, but they seem to ignore the other two. He doesn't look any more distinct (from a strategic point of view) or any healthier (you haven't added new ways to play around him or to let him play around his opponent).

They are good ideas - and I bet a lot of Malz players would like to see some of the used - but they don't do what the rework should.

They haven't really clarified what they think is unhealthy. They said "he clicks on you and you die" which isn't really accurate, but I guess means they think he has too much damage or or is too good at dueling.

stealthfox942 votes

I've been dreading the day the reworked Malzahar but unfortunately I knew it was coming. I like him but the reason I like him is because everything in his kit is so trollish and I have a feeling Riot will take that away.

WE ARE THE GOATS1 votes

this %%%%% wrote a book. im sorry lol im not readin that

Kathash1 votes

Well when you are discussing the possible update of a champion, you kinda want to explain your reasoning. If you don't want to read it, don't. No need to get upset.

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