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How can we fix Nautilus discussion?

SociopathFriend·3/19/2018, 4:27:27 PM·17 votes·1,523 views

The titan of the depths has long been one of my favorite champions- but you'd never know it for my playrate with him. Currently it's insisted he's sub-optimal in all positions and I frankly have to agree as of the last few times I played him.

Nautilus' thematic is relatively solid. He is a lumbering juggernaut of a man that forces the tide of battle around him, he is the CC king if Leona is the CC queen. While his lore is a bit vague at the moment his identity as a literal diver and initiator in a teamfight was basically never questioned. His job was to go in and drown his opponents in CC.

Now, what specifically are his current problems so that we can list them out and what are solutions to make him a good pick again? Is his identity as a champion unclear? Is his kit too outdated? Are some of his mechanics too binary? Is he, like Garen, simply unable to be strong because of raw numbers? If so, what mechanics be introduced to make him less sink-or-swim?

32 Comments

PhearBunny3/19/2018, 4:42:06 PM5 votes

Nautilus's has so many problems. hes too soft, he requires more stats than he can realistically reach(AP,Mana,CDR,Health,Armor,MR). His only real damage comes from a shield that is on a pretty long CD(Giving him a huge window of weakness), and this long CD can literally be 1shotted off of him.

What I would do to fix nautilus... Make his passives damage, scale off of level and health. Getting hit by him, should hurt.

Make his Anchor(Q) have both a AP ratio and max Health% damage. Increase the base damage at all ranks. Its a giant anchor, it should hit your health bar like its a giant anchor. Lower mana cost

W-Keep it the same, let him keep his damage gains for the full duration even if the shield is knocked off. On top of that, give him passive damage reduction with his W, 5/10/15/20%. Lower mana cost

E- keep it the same, but add stacking damage onto it. Each time you are hit by riptide within 10seconds, its damage dealt to you increases by 10%, getting hit by it resets the 10seconds. Lower mana cost

R-Large mana cost reduction DESTROYS TERRAIN IN ITS PATH. Permanently.

I think his play should revolve around his Q being the majority of his damage. His R being there to protect himself from taking large amounts of damage from backlines, or getting a pick. His E and W being there for long term sustained damage.

Teridax683/20/2018, 2:18:53 AM4 votes

I think part of the problem with Nautilus is that his initial foundations have aged poorly as feature creep developed in League. When Naut released, he set a lot of records: he had the most CC out of any champion, plus he had manaless hard CC on his innate, which was unheard of. Nowadays, though, we're in an environment where a great deal of tanks have multiple AoE knockups, plus additional crowd control on the side, and that's considered standard on top of damage and/or utility. Ornn, for example, has CC comparable to Naut's, perhaps even more, yet has a fair amount of damage and some utility on the side. Naut's identity needs to be more than just "has the most CC in the game" if he wants to have a stable spot in the champion roster.

Part of the issue with this, however, is also that tanks as a class have gone a little overboard. Short of giving Naut stuff he really doesn't need to have, like damage, mobility or utility, he's not going to compete with the rest, but only because the rest has become overloaded. Tanks as an entire subclass need to have their AoE and damage toned down, and doing so could help Nautilus out by making him stand out better.

In the meantime, if there were two areas I'd seek to improve him, it would be his W and E: the bonus magic damage on W basically just affects his jungle clear without doing much anywhere else, so it might help to instead tie it to his innate, which provides damage but also hard CC (which doesn't really change his clear). Having his innate tick down faster one way or another while he's shielded (it could even be on-hit cooldown reduction) could allow that steroid to have some use outside of the jungle.

Regarding his E, I think it might be good to reward Naut for landing multiple waves against the same target: for example, if getting hit by all three waves stunned the target, he'd be able to punish opponents running away from him much harder. Additionally, I'd remove the damage reduction on subsequent waves, even if it would mean toning down the damage per wave, as I believe he deserves the full rewards for landing multiple waves against opponents. Having his Riptide waves originate from him, rather than a static location, could also allow him to maneuver the ability much better, which could allow him to express more skill both in his jungle clears and his ganks.

Blakiepug3/19/2018, 11:08:47 PM3 votes

I think Nautilus is just heavily overshadowed by Thresh. Thresh does much of what Nautilus can do + lantern + hook reset. Naut needs a bit more damage back since that was what differentiated him best from the other hook champions before (apart from his sick ult).

InTheory3/19/2018, 4:30:36 PM3 votes

I remember his E being one of the main reasons he was meta in LCS for some time - he was one of the best waveclearing tanks at that time which caused Riot to reduce his damage and increase his mana costs on that ability to break his LCS dominance.

SpecterVonBaren3/19/2018, 8:23:10 PM1 votes

Give him back his W damage.

Karn Bishop3/19/2018, 8:48:18 PM1 votes

New passive on Q called living anchor, for every 8 large camp/legendary monsters Nautilus anchor grows by one teemo in length.

W passive titans glory takes reduced damage from small monsters and its duration is increased up to a max of 4 seconds while monsters are attacking nautilius.

R change: The farther away you get from nautilus the more damage the final charge does to the target and the closer they are to you the less damage it does to them.

These changes also have the benefit of not strengthening support or lane nautilus while enhancing the things jungle nautilus wants to do which is clear small camp monsters faster and gain extended Q range via monsters as well.

Pheobos3/19/2018, 10:38:01 PM1 votes

I would love to see him becoming a decent jungler again. I feel like he's been moved out of the jungle ever since season 5 and I really miss being able to pick him as a solid engage jungler.

Śhunpo3/19/2018, 11:42:59 PM1 votes

Reduce his mana costs, reduce his Q cooldown slightly, make his Q missile speed slightly faster, give him like +2 armor and +2 magic resist.

Boom! Now he's decent again.

SangreDeNoche3/20/2018, 12:33:53 AM1 votes

Nothing. If riot released old naut as a "new champ" they would have 0 concerns with his kit for months. haha

CrazyBigfoot283/20/2018, 12:48:52 AM1 votes

i feel like they could change his e to something different it has so much potential

PapaGreg213/20/2018, 2:21:59 AM1 votes

If his e did extra damage to jungle camps he would be fine but Riot refuses to make this change because they hate community based suggestions. Thus we will get goofy buffs like 20 ad damage added to his hook like his last buff.

Spacesuit Spiff3/20/2018, 2:49:23 PM1 votes

Spatial peel is less important than enchanter shields now, so he's subpar in terms of defensive utility (losing face of the mountain hurt too). And since he doesnt do damage (unlike other tanks, recently) he's a subpar diver. Lastly, he just isn't manic enough for the current state of the game.

loli nukes3/20/2018, 4:17:38 PM1 votes

naut hasnt been meta since the days of the aoe purple smite (forgot its name) because his clear speed sucks and can be taken advantage of. He'd prob be fine top with sunfire cape buffs (and so would champs like shen and poppy who r less dominant than the righteous glory tanks). Maybe mana cost reduction on e (sion exists with his e which is really similar in clear but also pokes insane). helping him in jg is harder.

Jefftiffy3/20/2018, 4:44:33 PM1 votes

The reason Nautilus has to be bad as he is right now, coming from someone who used him a lot in Seasons 4 and 5, is that he is a CC bot currently. He has a root on AA with no CD other than per target, his Q is one of the buggiest and has some of the weirdest interactions in the game (like hitting a wall while zhonyas is on actually moves you).

While he was king of the jungle, he walked into lane and CC'd you for about 4s straight while you sat there not being able to play the game and putting out considerable DPS. Late game it would swap to the CC bot nature of a tank which was bad because it meant he was strong at all parts of the game while having considerable mobility for a tank.

Honestly how you fix Naut is by making his passive something other than a root and making his ult have kind of an actual depth charge feel. It should start small and grow bigger but not actually hit anything until the final hit and the further the distance the larger the CC and damage so he isn't just diving and nuking someone. Maybe make his passive a mini knock back to support his role as a peeling tank. Also you reduce his AP scalings and make him mostly based on health and resists.

Looknook3/20/2018, 4:52:57 PM1 votes

I think part of Natilus’s problems come from an unclear identity. He is basically a very hardy catch tank with a lot of CC, AOE ablilties and, depending on the patch damage. In this regard he is similar to Leona, Thresh and Blitz. All of them are tanky champs designed to catch enimies. All of them do a similar thing but in their own unique way, yet Naut is the only one that is primarily a support. I think Naut needs a more clear identity and better tools to solo lane without being overbearing. To this end I think his abilities need to be looked at and his identity changed slightly, from that of another catch tank to the one you want for teamfights and consistent CC.

I think he Q is fine and so is his passive, however his W and E are both either underwhelming for Naut or overpowering for his opponents. Naut’s sheild should give him something other than damage and it should be an effect that can last even after the ability has ended. Maybe a boost to damage reduction or extra MR and AR. His E should have the damage toned down and affects toned up. So like maybe each wave does a slight knock-up in addition to the slow and the waves orignate from Nautlis allowing Naut to stay on top of targets but also providing a clear danger zone around him of constant AOE CC.

Another idea would be to move his E to his Ult but amp it up like it is in the Dawn trailer, giant AOE knock-up to follow up his Q. Only problem with this one being his doesn’t pull himself fully into enemy team with Q but hey, AOE knock ups are awesome zoning tools as well, just look at how people react to Galio ults.

If that was done then maybe replace his is with a Swipe type ability where he might wind up and swing in an AOE in front of his with various possible effects.

Dr Dog3/20/2018, 4:56:48 PM1 votes

simple, make his mana costs actually reasonable

Z3Sleeper3/20/2018, 6:59:36 PM1 votes

The severe lack of any real counterplay outside of "don't stand near him" and "wait for him to run out of mana".

Since that counterplay doesn't exist, they simply toned his numbers down to a point where you don't have to worry about it.

Pretty much the same thing as Blitzcrank, only Blitz has a super long range hook that completely eats up his power budget while Nautilus is more spread out with a lot of power on his ult.

He can still be good as a catcher, since his ult is a click target long duration knockup, but as for his raw power they purposely put him behind because he's so reliable.

Shrek Luigi3/20/2018, 8:28:17 PM1 votes

Used to be my all-time favorite champ (played him a LOT in the toplane when I was new). Still is, kinda, but feels like a shell of his former self when pitted against a lot of conventional toplaners since his damage is quite low with a run-of-the-mill Trinity Tank build. Haven't ran with an AP-heavy build in recent memory so I can't give an educated opinion on that, but I wouldn't be comfortable with it.

I feel like his biggest Achilles Heel is how difficult-to-quantify Riptide is, since it is theoretically strong but is spread-out across three hits. I also like the hidden, often-underestimated power of his AA-reset with W--quite strong early on and makes him quite menacing with item 3078item 3748 and a substantial gold-lead, but it falls off rather quick.

Overall I feel like his kit is a mish-mash of different design aspects that haven't aged well. Looks good on paper, and has one hell of a frightening engage, but still comes off as a bit goofy to play--how his meta has shifted from position to position (and eventual obsoletion) is a testament to that.

I don't claim to know how to fix him, but I doubt a simple number-tweak would solve his problems. He certainly doesn't feel like a Titan anymore, though.

Iręlía3/24/2018, 6:18:59 AM1 votes

I actually really miss the days when I would catch him top building BotRK.

It was a wild time.

o brigid o3/24/2018, 6:31:48 AM1 votes

As much as I play support, Nautilus was never a pick for me. He just seemed too lumbering and awkward for me to want to try. Literally just this last week I started to pick him and have found nothing but joy.

I don't really think there's anything wrong with his kit. His passive is godly. He lends himself to great supporting or in other roles. His ratios are healthy. He's a megatank with a ton of cc and defense. He shouldn't have a ton of damage, but he still can if you build him with a chunk of ap.

I haven't been playing him for years so I can't offer as much insight, but he feels particularly healthy to me when played in an even skill match up.

JoeMG3/19/2018, 5:52:27 PM1 votes

I've actually had a lot of success and fun playing Naut jungle. Build him full tank plus item 3151 for some extra E damage. After item 3751 his clears are pretty decent. I agree his solo laning sucks now but I still think hes in a pretty good spot.

Professor Ward3/19/2018, 5:54:15 PM1 votes

His e needs to be a directional skillshot, and with a faster missile speed. Same mechanic as now, just in one direction at a higher speed. Give it damage to champs and not minions. Currently its just way to wonky and weak to do anything

Give him some sort of mana or health sustain

And hes fine

DracosKasu3/19/2018, 7:00:00 PM1 votes

One of the quick fix will be to increase a little bit his attack speed. Since the removal of the attack speed rune his auto are way too slow.